General Libertarians In Swing States: Can we risk 4 more Obama years by voting for Johnson?

Yeah, I don't get that argument either. Why is it that 3rd party voters are said to be voting for Obama? Why can't someone just turn the argument around and say that, since they're not voting for Obama, they're voting for Romney?

Because 1) Obama is the likely winner in most of those close states and 2) the Majority of people on here favor Less Government which is typically (maybe not in recent years) the Repub Party.

Same as when people vote for the Green Party, they are taken (mostly) from the Dem Party.

I hope that clears things up for you
 
Sure, this is a research project. Who knows if it is just one person doing their best to make a last minute appeal for Romney, or if it is a coordinated effort to gather intel on us. I kinda hope it is the latter. I would love to see the Romney campaign take this information and try to come up with some hail-mary appeal to Paul supporters and libertarians. It would be hilarious.
So far, the best appeal that the OP can come up with is the fact that Romney hasn't started any wars. It would be ridiculous if Romney came out later this week and all of a sudden was trying to be the peace candidate.
There is no appeal that would bring any more of us aboard.

Also, I feel that a thread like this is useful because it reminds us of the principles that unite us. In recent weeks, there has been a lot of division here regarding the "GJ vs Write-In vs No-Vote" question - and there will always be some bickering over abortion and gay issues. But, a thread like this brings out the core issues that create this movement. To me, not voting for Obama/Romney is a no-brainer because these principles are now ingrained into my philosophy - But articulating this towards an opposing force creates an opportunity to remind ourselves why this movement exists. The key issues (the issues that we generally find MOST important) are the principles that Romney and Obama continuously violate. Hence, I do not mind at all being part of this research project. It's not like we are giving up our secret strategies. Instead, we are clearly articulating and defending our core principles (which is something that I am always interested in).

I agree. I'll add that these kinds of threads can really inform lurkers out there, and help them decide what we're really all about, as compared against how we in the movement are portrayed in the MSM and elsewhere.

Truth is useful, and can be hard to ascertain or even locate. A thread like this contains a lot of valuable truth.
 
Yeah, they do. And if there's one time a 3rd party candidate really made a difference in the outcome, it's probably Nader in 2000.

But still, the argument itself shouldn't depend on whether you're a Nader voter or a libertarian or whatever. If there are two candidates, A and B, and someone claims, "If you do not vote for A, that's a vote for B." then it must also be the case that if you do not vote for B, that's a vote for A. But if both of those things are true, then someone who doesn't vote for either is voting for both. It doesn't make any sense.

what about Perot?
 
Sure they are, Obama is ahead in most of the swing/close states. His supporters aren't voting 3rd party.
I agree there is no honor for Romney in a win, if he only wins by the "anyone but obama" vote -- that doesnt make the voter without honor. Sadly there is not yet a 3rd party to battle the R or D, and i hope there will be. I realize voting 3rd party this year is a step in that direction, but the downside of Obama is a risk im not sure i want to take - which is why i am here and why i am torn and why i have enjoyed chatting with some great people in this forum the past few days.
Never will be either if people keep thinking they have to vote R to keep D from winning and D to keep R from winning.
 
OK, This thread has convinced me, now more than ever, to just go ahead and vote for Gary Johnson - LP.

The LP 5% national (for 2016 ballot access) and Anti-mitt (give GOP the finger) goals make the most sense to me.

Nation wide, I think 4 more years of (hopeless) "Hope" is safer than 8 years of "lesser evil" run amuck.

In Illinois, a write-in for Ron Paul would be lumped and then effectively dumped. And, since Obama will win the electoral votes in this state, any vote for Mitt (here) would be wasted.

Thanks LibertyPA ...and thanks Smokey. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNMq8XS4LhE

So glad you liked the topic---thanks for being a part of it!!
Have a great weekend!!
 
No, they aren't, others voting for Obama are. YOU just want us/them to give the election to Romney.

I have said before and will continue to say -- this is not my intention.

Though you make a good point here, one that hasn't been said before -- those voting for Obama are the ones electing him...the others may be letting that happen but they arent actually electing him.
thanks for sharing!
 
Nope. No. Never. Nothing of the sort.

When you vote, you vote for someone. Always. You aren't voting for someone else. You are voting for who you vote for.

If someone else wins the election, it's because and only because other people voted for that other person.

If everyone would just get this one thing right and vote for who they want to vote for, this country would be much, much, much better off.

Time and time again, when voting issues/principles instead of people, the best answers rise to the top. For some reason, though, when the question switches to people instead of principle, the voters get swayed by all manner of obfuscation.

Yes, as i just posted - you are correct, the vote is only FOR 1 person, not to elect other people
thank you for sharing and making a great point!
 
I mentioned it some pages back. I even said if Gary Johnson gets 5% of the vote in 2012 then everyone here who didn't vote for him will be praising the 5% that did when in 2016 the Libertarian Party becomes much more powerful and the two-party system is put on the road to extinction.

I still dont know why the 5% is important....and where the $20Mil comes from
can anyone help? thanks!
 
Sure they are, Obama is ahead in most of the swing/close states. His supporters aren't voting 3rd party.

You've never heard of the Green Party, I presume? A whole lot of liberals, most of whom are registered Democrats, are very disgusted with Obama's corporatism and various police actions. And they're getting hit with the same kind of rhetoric you've been barraged with--you don't dare vote your conscience, vote for sanity, because it will hand the election to Romney.

A vote against someone is a big temptation because people feel twice as powerful when they do it. A vote against generally gets cast for that candidate's leading foe. So, it deprives one of the vote, and adds it to the other. It feels like two votes. But it isn't.

Meanwhile, a vote against the status quo deprives the status quo of legitimately, and it stands out because it's a complete rejection of the powers that be. It's a strong statement that what they're doing is so bad that people will drop out of their system completely. And it's the only way we're going to get back to a two party system, because there's no difference between the Demopublicans and Republicrats any more.

Romney promises war; Obama promises peace but delivers war. Obama promises big spending; Romney promises small government but delivers corrupt and substandard projects like the Big Dig. People vote knowing that they'll get the same thing either way, but they vote for the prettier lies to make their voices heard as if those voices still make a difference in this so-called 'republic'. It's just going through the old, familiar motions. It's also insanity.

The government isn't sustainable. The debt isn't sustainable. You worry about minimizing the damage over the next four years, but Romney's twenty-eight year plan isn't something he can see through and enforce for the duration, is back-loaded so he doesn't have to cut spending until near the end of the eight years he's dreaming of, and assumes that the government-finance house of cards can last 28 years when anyone can see it can't.

Either way, it leads to a world currency and a loss of national sovereignty. Unless we entice people into trading with silver and gold, which would lead to personal sovereignty. Here we are on page 36 of a thread arguing over a vote--a vote which could be a drop in the bucket for the crash, or a little more weight to a sane policy which is currently a pipe dream. Better we should be planning for the crash. What we do then could actually mean something.
 
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Because 1) Obama is the likely winner in most of those close states and 2) the Majority of people on here favor Less Government which is typically (maybe not in recent years) the Repub Party.

I don't accept the premise that the Republican party is typically less government. And even if it was, I still don't see how not voting for Romney is the same as voting for Obama for the reason I already gave. It just makes no sense, because then it would have to be the case that not voting for Obama is the same as voting for Romney, and not voting for either is the same as voting for both.
 
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I have never in my life seen someone bump a thread so many times that's backfiring on them so badly.

But again gotta agree with Paulitics. It sure isn't hurting to remind us of all that we have in common and stand against.
 
But that didn't affect the outcome. Clinton won with Perot getting that 19% and he would have won without Perot in the race at all.

Furthermore, even if it did it's not a reason to vote for Romney. It should be a reason for Romney to reach out to the swing voters who can decide his fate.. They made their decision long ago that they're not interested in our votes.
 
I'm also still waiting for LibertyPA to make a good case for Romney, since we're already not voting for Obama. Please, sell us!
 
I have never in my life seen someone bump a thread so many times that's backfiring on them so badly.

But again gotta agree with Paulitics. It sure isn't hurting to remind us of all that we have in common and stand against.

Regardless of motive, in these final few days until next Tuesday, we should expect and embrace these kinds of threads. Give readers somethin' tasty to gnaw on.

I expect Rev9 is out there enjoying this, though I expect he thinks it needs more salt & vinegar.
 
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I'm also still waiting for LibertyPA to make a good case for Romney, since we're already not voting for Obama. Please, sell us!

He has no good reason to vote for Romney. None at all. He only has good reasons not to vote for Obama, and thinks those are good reasons to vote against Obama in what he perceives as the most effective way.

The problem he's having is that a vote for Romney is a vote for the exact same status quo that Obama represents. Everything he hates about Obama can be said, perhaps to a greater or lesser degree, but can be said in any case, about Romney.

And the bizarre part is, he knows it.

I personally don't believe either of them, as compared to the other, will delay the coming crash by so much as an hour.
 
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