Let's kill Wal-Mart

[libertarian4321]

The only real problem I have with Walmart is that as a company it often encourages employees to seek (and provides information for) state welfare/medicare/etc. aid instead of paying decent wages and benefits. So it's an extremely successful company that is subsidized by taxpayers.

That and the Walton family, worth tens of billions of dollars, gives hardly anything at all to charity. That's not nearly as offensive to me as the eagnerness to tap into taxpayers instead of their bottom line, though.

Thats not a Walmart problem, thats a BAD GOVERNMENT problem.

You don't solve that problem by bitching about Walmart, you eliminate it by ending the give aways (Walmart doesn't control that).

 

[libertarian4321]

And I say Walmart road to serfdom because Walmart relies on things like NAFTA and Chinese fascism in order to do business as fabulously as it does.

FYI, Walmart was kicking ass LONG before Nafta (Sam Walton died the richest man in the world 2 years before NAFTA started) and LONG before the beginning of free trade with China.

Walmart does well because it is a ruthlessly efficient company.

You end trade with China tomorrow, and Walmart will STILL be kicking butt, I guarantee it.

 

[Petar]

i never expected to see this in the forums...& never fathomed responding to a thread titled as such...yet so be it....yet knowing what i know...i read it all......AND i still detest this chain w/a mad passion & would rather pay slightly more than give then 1 nickle!!

Hmmmm, was my thread title really that distasteful?

I thought a fellow Wal-Mart hater would appreciate the sentiment...

 

[Petar]

FYI, Walmart was kicking ass LONG before Nafta (Sam Walton died the richest man in the world 2 years before NAFTA started) and LONG before the beginning of free trade with China.

Walmart does well because it is a ruthlessly efficient company.

You end trade with China tomorrow, and Walmart will STILL be kicking butt, I guarantee it.

Well, if Walmart was not presently exporting so much of Americas manufacturing to fascist Chinese slave labor, and also taking advantage of the present NAFTA situation, then I would not see such a need for us to organize ourselves to compete with them and take away all of their business as much as possible.

But, since that is the present situation, then I do know that America would be much better served if liberty supporting and American producing companies were able to compete and take as much of their business away as possible.

So for now I'm just gonna hope that we can organize to compete with them as much as possible, and take away as much of their business as possible, and grow our movement as much as possible, and eventually make all of the political changes that we need to make.

Making the political changes that we need to make in America, in order to be able to solve the root of the problem here, is the ultimate point for me.

 

[phoenixrising]

Hmmmm, was my thread title really that distasteful?

I thought a fellow Wal-Mart hater would appreciate the sentiment...

nope! not distasteful...hope it didn't sound that way...just not anticipated here

yet note as well: for those who may not be aware of the *deeper* story...i did take the time to respond...because i feel that strongly...knowing what i've learned.

when u take the time to watch the vid i mentioned...it tells a completely dif. story than what many may think "beyond low prices" n'est pas?

btw" i live in HI...so saving a buck is very important to me when u deal daily w/the "cost of paradise"...yet by shopping wal-mart...i feel i'd be selling my soul in the process...knowing what i know now.

it's a matter of personal choice.

 

[libertarian4321]

Well, if Walmart was not presently exporting so much of Americas manufacturing to fascist Chinese slave labor, and also taking advantage of the present NAFTA situation, then I would not see such a need for us to organize ourselves to compete with them and take away all of their business as much as possible.

Making the political changes that we need to make in America, in order to be able to solve the root of the problem here, is the ultimate point for me.

Two points:

1. We aren't here to "get Walmart." You may have some issue with Walmart, but thats not why most of us are here. "Get Walmart" isn't what the Ron Paul Revolution is about.

2. Very little of what is made in China is made by slave or prison labor. China has a totalitarian government and corruption, but has a largely CAPITALIST economy (in some ways, capitalism is more vibrant in China than it is here). Some of you people still think its 1968 and the Chinese are carrying around copies of Mao's Little Red Book as they trudge to their State run factory job in some run down building. That is not how modern China runs. Almost everything you buy is produced either by factories owned by 1) Chinese Entrepreneurs- they are cranking out millionaires and billionaires at an astonishing rate- and it ain't by using prison labor or 2) Foreign companies (many of the American) building overseas factories.

 

[Petar]

Two points:

1. We aren't here to "get Walmart." You may have some issue with Walmart, but thats not why most of us are here. "Get Walmart" isn't what the Ron Paul Revolution is about.

2. Very little of what is made in China is made by slave or prison labor. China has a totalitarian government and corruption, but has a largely CAPITALIST economy (in some ways, capitalism is more vibrant in China than it is here). Some of you people still think its 1968 and the Chinese are carrying around copies of Mao's Little Red Book as they trudge to their State run factory job in some run down building. That is not how modern China runs. Almost everything you buy is produced either by factories owned by 1) Chinese Entrepreneurs- they are cranking out millionaires and billionaires at an astonishing rate- and it ain't by using prison labor or 2) Foreign companies (many of the American) building overseas factories.

My suggestion is that we take Walmarts business for ourselves, and I'm just using Walmart as a prime example of a company whose business we should be taking.

If we can compete with Walmart in the way that I am proposing, then we can also consistently funnel a portion of that money towards renewed money bombs for liberty.

Think of how many new people will become supporters, if we can give them an economic advantage to participate in.

Think of how many new liberty candidates this could enable.

The whole point is for us to be enabled to then make the political changes that need to be made in order to cure the disease behind the symptom that is Walmart.

NAFTA, IRS, the Fed, you name it...

And it really is a very ugly symptom that we are dealing with.

Americas manufacturing is gone, everything is being made in China, its all junk, and this is supposed to be progress?

Sorry, but a few heartless fascists getting mega rich at everyone else's expense is not my idea of progress.

That's right, a FASCIST society, China is FASCIST, because the super rich criminals who spearheaded international Communism were only really interested in creating GLOBAL FASCISM anyway.

FASCISM may have come to complete fruition in China, but I have some much better ideas about where we need to be spending our money before FASCISM comes to complete fruition here.

My only goal is to enable this initiative in a competitive manner using the free-market.

 

[libertarian4321]

My suggestion is that we take Walmarts business for ourselves, and I'm just using Walmart as a prime example of a company whose business we should be taking.

If we can compete with Walmart in the way that I am proposing, then we can also consistently funnel a portion of that money towards renewed money bombs for liberty.

Think of how many new people will become supporters, if we can give them an economic advantage to participate in.

Think of how many new liberty candidates this could enable.

The whole point is for us to be enabled to then make the political changes that need to be made in order to cure the disease behind the symptom that is Walmart.

NAFTA, IRS, the Fed, you name it...

And it really is a very ugly symptom that we are dealing with.

Americas manufacturing is gone, everything is being made in China, its all junk, and this is supposed to be progress?

Sorry, but a few heartless fascists getting mega rich at everyone else's expense is not my idea of progress.

That's right, a FASCIST society, China is FASCIST, because the super rich criminals who spearheaded international Communism were only really interested in creating GLOBAL FASCISM anyway.

FASCISM may have come to complete fruition in China, but I have some much better ideas about where we need to be spending our money before FASCISM comes to complete fruition here.

My only goal is to enable this initiative in a competitive manner using the free-market.

Your rant seems a bit disjointed- first going off on Walmart (which got big through good old fashioned capitalism LONG before China produced anything of consequence) and then ranting about "fascism" in China. BTW, global trade with the USA and other countries has ERODED the influence of the totalitarian government in China- and will continue to do so- China is far more open now than it was 20 years ago, both to its own citizens and to foreigners- its far from perfect, but its headed in the right direction.

Anyway, you obviously have a deep personal issue with Walmart- go ahead and start up a store to compete with them if you want (thats what Sam Walton did). But I'm not here to "get Walmart," and I suspect that many others here are not either.

 

[Petar]

Your rant seems a bit disjointed- first going off on Walmart (which got big through good old fashioned capitalism LONG before China produced anything of consequence) and then ranting about "fascism" in China. BTW, global trade with the USA and other countries has ERODED the influence of the totalitarian government in China- and will continue to do so- China is far more open now than it was 20 years ago, both to its own citizens and to foreigners- its far from perfect, but its headed in the right direction.

Anyway, you obviously have a deep personal issue with Walmart- go ahead and start up a store to compete with them if you want (thats what Sam Walton did). But I'm not here to "get Walmart," and I suspect that many others here are not either.

I suspect that many people here would much rather have the opportunity to find a competitive deal at a liberty supporting business with made in America products, as opposed to having to spend their money at a company that thrives off of international fascism, AKA "the globalist agenda".

 

[libertarian4321]

I suspect that many people here would much rather have the opportunity to find a competitive deal at a liberty supporting business with made in America products, as opposed to having to spend their money at a company that thrives off of international fascism, AKA "the globalist agenda".

BTW, I signed up for the program. I just don't agree with the anti-Walmart rants.

 

[Mark]

Finding out the truth about Wal-Mart's company policies and how they keep prices "low" isn't hard to do,
the info is freely available on the Internet, and if you shop there and support them then the same "blood" is on your hands,
and you share in their sins.

 

[Truth Warrior]

Finding out the truth about Wal-Mart's company policies and how they keep prices "low" isn't hard to do,
the info is freely available on the Internet, and if you shop there and support them then the same "blood" is on your hands,
and you share in their sins.

What LAWS ( so called ) is WalMart breaking? Maybe your real beef should be with the lawmakers ( so called ).

 

[Mark]

What LAWS ( so called ) is WalMart breaking? Maybe your real beef should be with the lawmakers ( so called ).

Wal-Mart wouldn't be able to hire companies that take advantage of the poor in corrupt countries if people didn't buy from them.

If people stopped buying from them, then Wal-Mart would have to change in order to survive.

So, no, my real beef is with the people who purchase Wal-Mart products that are created with essentially slave labor,
which encourages Wal-Mart to maintain their status-quo.

e.g. If no one bought stolen goods, then the market for stolen goods would dry up, and the incentive to steal goods would lessen dramatically.

And if people would quit buying products made by abused workers from Wal-Mart in order to save a few pennies,
there wouldn't be a market for the products.

The purchases show approval of Wal-Mart tactics, and allows them to continue.

 

[Truth Warrior]

Wal-Mart wouldn't be able to hire companies that take advantage of the poor in corrupt countries if people didn't buy from them.

If people stopped buying from them, then Wal-Mart would have to change in order to survive.

So, no, my real beef is with the people who purchase Wal-Mart products that are created with essentially slave labor,
which encourages Wal-Mart to maintain their status-quo.

e.g. If no one bought stolen goods, then the market for stolen goods would dry up, and the incentive to steal goods would lessen dramatically.

And if people would quit buying products made by abused workers from Wal-Mart in order to save a few pennies,
there wouldn't be a market for the products.

I reasonably assume that the "poor" are making the best choices for themselves, from among the available alternative options.

 

[Mark]

I reasonably assume that the "poor" are making the best choices for themselves, from among the available alternative options.

And the "available alternative options" are due to the support of the people who will buy products from companies who abuse their work force.

If people refused to support slave labor, there wouldn't be any need for it.

If people only bought from companies who treated workers fairly, then only those companies would thrive.

 

[Truth Warrior]

And the "available alternative options" are due to the support of the people who will buy products from companies who abuse their work force.

If people refused to support slave labor, there wouldn't be any need for it.

If people only bought from companies who treated workers fairly, then only those companies would thrive.

You can "If" yourself into oblivion.

People do what they do, whether you like or approve of it, or not.

I seriously doubt that you will be able to change human nature.

It's built in to the human species wiring.<IMHO>

 

[Mark]

You can "If" yourself into oblivion.

People do what they do, whether you like or approve of it, or not.

I seriously doubt that you will be able to change human nature.

It's built in to the human species wiring.<IMHO>

Are you saying that it's "human nature" to take unfair advantage of others for personal benefit? Is that really human nature, or simply greed?

I didn't start out by saying that I was trying to change what people do,
I just pointed out that if one supports wrongdoing, then they are complicit in it.

It's somewhat akin to your sig:

"Any compromise between good and evil, only works to the detriment of the good and to the benefit of the evil."

If people turn a blind eye to evil in order to reap it's benefits, then they're taking part in the evil, and share responsibility for it.

 

[libertarian4321]

And the "available alternative options" are due to the support of the people who will buy products from companies who abuse their work force.

If people refused to support slave labor, there wouldn't be any need for it.

If people only bought from companies who treated workers fairly, then only those companies would thrive.

They aren't using "slave labor".

Chinese from the countryside are FLOCKING to the cities to get jobs in factories that make products sold at Walmart and every other store in the developed world. Its the biggest migration of people from the countryside to cities in the history of the world, dwarfing the migrations seen in countries like the USA in the late 19th and early 20th centuries.

Chinese are fighting to get those factory jobs you describe as "slave" jobs because they are easier and pay far better than backbreaking subsistence farming available previously. Those factory jobs, while paying nothing compared to similar jobs in the USA, pay a LOT more than they can make in their old jobs in the countryside.

One factory worker in the city, making stuff for Walmart, often supports an entire family.

Are the hours long? Yes. Is it "slavery"? HELL NO! When was the last time you heard of "slaves" fighting for those jobs?

The conditions in those Chinese factories, while obviously not as good as we have here today, are far better than they were in US sweatshops less than 100 years ago.

Also, I shouldn't need to tell you this, but I probably have to- if Walmart wasn't buying from those factories, then Target or Kmart or Carrefour or Karstadt whatever would. All you'd be doing is changing the name of the buyer, the life of the workers wouldn't change one bit...

 

[Truth Warrior]

Are you saying that it's "human nature" to take unfair advantage of others for personal benefit? Is that really human nature, or simply greed?

I didn't start out by saying that I was trying to change what people do, I just pointed out that if one supports wrongdoing,
then they are complicit in it.

It's somewhat akin to your sig:

"Any compromise between good and evil, only works to the detriment of the good and to the benefit of the evil."

If people turn a blind eye to evil in order to reap it's benefits, then they're taking part in the evil, and share responsibility for it.

Nope, I'm saying it's human nature to seek profit and avoid loss. We are a "self-ish" species.<IMHO>

 

[Mark]

They aren't using "slave labor".

Chinese from the countryside are FLOCKING to the cities to get jobs in factories that make products sold at Walmart and every other store in the developed world. Its the biggest migration of people from the countryside to cities in the history of the world, dwarfing the migrations seen in countries like the USA in the late 19th and early 20th centuries.

Chinese are fighting to get those factory jobs you describe as "slave" jobs because they are easier and pay far better than backbreaking subsistence farming available previously. Those factory jobs, while paying nothing compared to similar jobs in the USA, pay a LOT more than they can make in their old jobs in the countryside.

One factory worker in the city, making stuff for Walmart, often supports an entire family.

Are the hours long? Yes. Is it "slavery"? HELL NO! When was the last time you heard of "slaves" fighting for those jobs?

The conditions in those Chinese factories, while obviously not as good as we have here today, are far better than they were in US sweatshops less than 100 years ago.

Also, I shouldn't need to tell you this, but I probably have to- if Walmart wasn't buying from those factories, then Target or Kmart or Carrefour or Karstadt whatever would. All you'd be doing is changing the name of the buyer, the life of the workers wouldn't change one bit...

Yeah, they're fighting for those jobs because those are the only ones available because there's no incentive for companies to provide better ones because people buy from the companies that pay $3 for 14 hours of back-breaking labor.

They might keep a small family barely alive with those wages, but it's hardly "support" in the true sense of a decent life.

Didn't you know? Slaves will fight for jobs if that's the only way they have to get food to eat in order to stay alive.

And I shouldn't have to tell you this, but the concept is universal among stores, regardless of brand name.

And BTW, companies are moving to places like Vietnam now because $3/day is higher than the even poorer will work for.

The movie posted earlier showed women in Bangladesh brushing their teeth with ashes on their finger because
they can't afford toothbrushes with what they're getting paid.

Is that better than starving to death? Yes. But does it make it right? No.

If people want to live an abundant lifestyle on the backs of the poor, that's their choice,
but I prefer to try and follow The Golden Rule, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you".

And take to heart the spirit behind the words, "What you have done to the least of them, you have done to me".

What caused conditions to change in America? Was it by supporting the same ol' same ol'?
Or standing up against the greed of those who took advantage?

As long as people support the way things are, they will never change.