Let me tell you about our Constitution.

Washington was a great man to turn down that power... And then 20 years later he turned his army on some citizens selling Whiskey.

When you're right and you compromise, you're wrong.
 
I find that actually reading letters and documents written from the time period are much more fascinating and meaningful as they are uninterpreted. It takes a little while to learn the dialect since words have changed meanings, rewritten just as our history is rewritten over and over and over....
There are many excellent resources online that contain huge volumes of uninterpreted history.

Also, news items, especially editorials, are great for showing how things were perceived by the individuals affected by events.
 
I had an American History professor that told us on the first day of class, "Forget everything you have learned so far. It's all propaganda."

That was many years ago and his words still ring true for me today. I credit that man (Professor Therill) with giving me the gift of a curious mind.

Another bit of sage advice that I picked up along the way, "They can never take from you what you know."

I had an elementary teacher tell me the very same thing back in 1978.
 
I had an American History professor that told us on the first day of class, "Forget everything you have learned so far. It's all propaganda."

That was many years ago and his words still ring true for me today. I credit that man (Professor Therill) with giving me the gift of a curious mind.

Another bit of sage advice that I picked up along the way, "They can never take from you what you know."
Well said. My AP US History class teachers tell me that World WAR II ended the depression. Really? Putting resources into destruction creates prosperity?
 
I had an elementary teacher tell me the very same thing back in 1978.

I was fed the glossed over version of history in my early years. We both heard the propaganda thing around the same time. The class I referred to was in 1975. Just goes to show that there have always been free thinkers with their eyes open. May it always be so.
 
Reminds me of Chris Rock talking a few years back about Hillary, "Is America ready for a woman president? Yes. But does it have to be THAT woman?" Romney's such a dented and dirty tool. Only if there is absolutely no other way and then we go kicking and screaming and come back with a vengeance! I like your post. Still keeping my fingers crossed for a black swan chaos event in Tampa. Hey, it's 2012 after all......


The Mayans were 4 months late :D
 
Perhaps we could all agree that the two party system is a failure and support the libretarian candidate for president, I could maybe agree with that....it is obvious to me that the rnc would rather lose to 0blabla than support a constitutional candidate and have always controlled the populace with fear and deception,,,,,,,,,,,no better in the long run than the democrats,,,,,,I can no longer support the republicans,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,good luck with mittens..
 
Perhaps we could all agree that the two party system is a failure and support the libretarian candidate for president, I could maybe agree with that....it is obvious to me that the rnc would rather lose to 0blabla than support a constitutional candidate and have always controlled the populace with fear and deception,,,,,,,,,,,no better in the long run than the democrats,,,,,,I can no longer support the republicans,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,good luck with mittens..

I agree, a vote for either party is a vote against liberty.
 
I get your point, but you're wrong about the Constitution. The men in Philadelphia were there to amend the Articles of Confederation. They overstepped their bounds in writing the Constitution. Had not the Anti-Federalists insisted upon the Bill of Rights, we might have had a monstrosity right out of the box!

Not sure what you mean by standing armies, either. The Continental Army was disbanded in 1784 except for very small residual forces at a couple of forts. Yes, there had been payment problems, but these men by the time of the writing of the Constitution had returned to their civilian lives.

The Constitution could be seen as an amendment of the Articles wherein they amended everything.

And the "armies" weren't really armies, they were each state's militia which is styled an army. That said, some of the higher ups remained from the Continental Army, such as Hamilton.

And your comment about the Anti-Federalists is kinda the point.
 
Washington was a great man to turn down that power... And then 20 years later he turned his army on some citizens selling Whiskey.

When you're right and you compromise, you're wrong.

Some citizens selling whiskey who had assaulted unarmed federal employees. The "rebels" in the Whiskey Rebellion were not the "good guys".
 
Personally, I'll carry on, whether under this flag (RP) or another. Though Ron would put the loss of Liberty as having its roots in 1913, I put it at 1860 with the election of our first 'Big Brother'.

Really, though, we didn't see the obscene encroachment on our daily Liberties until the US became a debtor nation, which happened in the 1980's. It was debt that financed the war on drugs, the wars of aggression abroad, the militarization of our local police, the nanny state, the growth of Gov't in general, the emasculation of Congress and on and on.

So, for me the number 1 priority is to reduce the size of our Gov't and I think the best way to do that is through sound fiscal policy which has to mean the end of deficit spending. Cut off the money and many of the abuses of power wither and die. A balanced budget simply won't allow for the squandering of our money on building either a domestic or foreign empire.

We have to be careful about upcoming posers to the movement. Now that RP has created the template and lingo, it will be easy for some to give lip service to Liberty without understanding what it takes to achieve it. We also have to recognize that Liberty can go by many names and be able to recognize what promotes Liberty without saying just that. A rose by any other name will smell as sweet.

In short, Liberty is the goal but ending policies that suffocate our Liberty is the means to achieve it. I'm hoping we can build a coalition to do just that.

The US was a debtor nation long before teh 1980s. The US became a debtor nation in 1917 when it used Fed money to finance WWI.
 
...Had not the Anti-Federalists insisted upon the Bill of Rights, we might have had a monstrosity right out of the box!...

SInce we're getting facts straight I thought I would interject a bit. Only three men stood against the Constitution without a Bill of Rights, Elbridge Gerry, George Mason and Thomas Jefferson (in a letter form France to James Madison). However Elbridge was no Anti-federalist - he whole heartily supported Hamilton and his ideas. He just understood what a governent could do to the people without a proper leash.
 
Some citizens selling whiskey who had assaulted unarmed federal employees. The "rebels" in the Whiskey Rebellion were not the "good guys".

Where did you read that....lol.
The whiskey rebellion was a result of Washington buying a distillery and then placing a tax on whiskey that seemed unfair to a lot of folks who figured that Washington was merely taxing the competition. Since this country had just fought a war to win it's independence from corrupt tax barons, people had become quite upset, irate would be a better word. It wasn't just a few citizens either, more people were killed during those rebellions than had actually died in the fight for independence.
 
SInce we're getting facts straight I thought I would interject a bit. Only three men stood against the Constitution without a Bill of Rights, Elbridge Gerry, George Mason and Thomas Jefferson (in a letter form France to James Madison). However Elbridge was no Anti-federalist - he whole heartily supported Hamilton and his ideas. He just understood what a governent could do to the people without a proper leash.

Only thirty-nine people signed the finished product of the Constitutional Convention. In all, seventy-four people were selected to attend the Convention, but only fifty-five actually attended. Some of these left before the Convention was complete, some for personal reasons, some to protest the Constitution. Others remained at the Convention until the end, but then refused to sign. The following is a list of those delegates who attended the Convention but who did not sign the Constitution, and the reason they did not sign:

Connecticut - Oliver Ellsworth (left early)
Georgia - William Houstoun (left early), William Pierce (left early)
Maryland - Luther Martin (left in protest), John Mercer (left in protest)
Massachusetts - Elbridge Gerry (refused to sign), Caleb Strong (left early)
New Jersey - William Houston (left early)
New York - John Lansing (left in protest), Robert Yates (left in protest)
North Carolina - William Davie (left early), Alexander Martin (left early)
Rhode Island - sent no delegates
Virginia - George Mason (refused to sign), James McClurg (left early), Edmund Randolph (refused to sign), George Wythe (left early)
The following are those who refused to attend or were unable to attend:

Connecticut - Erastus Wolcott
Georgia - Nathaniel Pendleton, George Walton
Maryland - Charles Caroll, Gabriel Duvall, Robert Hanson Harrison, Thomas Sire Lee, Thomas Stone
Massachusetts - Francis Dana
New Hampshire - John Pickering, Benjamin West
New Jersey - Abraham Clark, John Neilson
North Carolina - Richard Caswell, Willie Jones
South Carolina - Henry Laurens
Virginia - Patrick Henry, Richard Henry Lee, Thomas Nelson
It should be noted that John Dickinson is officially listed as a "signer," but he did not actually sign the Constitution. Dickinson fell ill during the convention and was unable to attend on the day of signing. He authorized George Read to sign for him by proxy.
 
The US was a debtor nation long before teh 1980s. The US became a debtor nation in 1917 when it used Fed money to finance WWI.

In modern times, we were a creditor nation up until 1984. We have continuously been a debtor nation since then with no end in sight.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

U.S. Is Bigger Debtor Nation
Reuters
Published: July 04, 1989


The United States, already the world's largest debtor, sank an additional $154.2 billion into the red last year as foreign money poured in to plug the nation's balance-of-payments gap.

The value of foreign investments in the United States, ranging from stocks to factories, exceeded American investments abroad by $532.5 billion at the end of 1988, up from $378.3 billion a year earlier, the Commerce Department said last week.

As recently as 1984, the United States was a net creditor to the rest of the world by about $3.3 billion.

In 1981, before the American budget and current-account deficits started to balloon, the net investment position was a positive $140.9 billion, the Commerce Department said.

http://www.nytimes.com/1989/07/04/business/us-is-bigger-debtor-nation.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
*Note: Not a great source, but a well-cited article, nonetheless.*


From 1850 through the end of World War I (1914–1918), America's trade balance moved from slightly unfavorable to enormously favorable, reflecting the nation's emergence as a world economic power and the continuation of trade protectionism. Thus, from 1850 to 1873, the merchandise trade deficit totaled $400 million, as exports grew from $152 million to $524 million. From 1874 to 1895, the trade balance turned favorable on the strength of agricultural exports and increases in shipments of manufactured goods. Volume increased steadily as well, with exports of goods and services reaching $1 billion for the first time in 1891. From 1896 to 1914, the trade balance was markedly favorable, as U.S. manufacturers competed globally for markets. Indeed, the merchandise trade balance was some $9 billion in surplus for this period. Purchases of services reduced the overall trade surplus to $6.8 billion. Spurred by the European demand for U.S. goods and services during World War I, the U.S. trade surplus soared from 1915 to 1919. Net goods and services totaled $14.3 billion for the five-year period, with exports topping $10.7 billion in 1919—an amount that was not exceeded until World War II (1939–1945). Not incidentally, America also became a creditor on its current account for the first time, on the strength of lending to wartime allies Britain and France.

From World War II to the Twenty-First Century

During the interwar period, the U.S. trade balance was consistently in surplus on greatly reduced volumes of trade, even as the merchandise trade balance turned negative from 1934 to 1940. As was the case during World War I, U.S. exports soared during World War II, peaking at $21.4 billion in 1944. Much of this volume was owed to the lend-lease program. As a result, America enjoyed an enormously favorable balance of trade, which it sustained during the early postwar period, from 1945 to 1960.

The favorable trade position of the United States at the end of World War II, underpinned by the relative strength of its manufacturing sector, contributed to the willingness of U.S. administrations to liberalize the global trading regime through the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade and its successor, the World Trade Organization. Both Democratic and Republican administrations remained committed to a freer trade policy stance—de-spite many exceptions, most notably steel, autos, and semiconductor chips—even as the U.S. merchandise trade balance disappeared in the late 1960s and then turned negative in the context of growing competitiveness on the part of European and Japanese manufacturers and sharply increased prices for crude oil.

From 1984 to 2000, the merchandise trade balance topped $100 billion in all but the recession years of 1991 and 1992, even as trade volumes increased absolutely and relative to GNP. In 1997, it exceeded $200 billion, as exports nearly reached $900 billion and GNP hit $8 trillion for the first time. For the twelve months ending 31 December 2001, the merchandise trade deficit stood at $425 billion. A surplus in services, which grew from $6.1 billion in 1980 to $85.3 billion in 1997, has offset 30 to 40 percent of the deficit on goods. America has funded its trade deficit largely by attracting foreign investment, so that it runs large surpluses on its capital account. As a result, the United States became the world's largest debtor on its current account during the 1980s and remained so at the beginning of the twenty-first century.

http://www.answers.com/topic/balance-of-trade
 
Washington was a great man to turn down that power... And then 20 years later he turned his army on some citizens selling Whiskey.

When you're right and you compromise, you're wrong.

Dude you deserve a medal for this. Winningest post this week.
 
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