Let me tell you about our Constitution.

[ShaneEnochs]

I know many of you already know this story, but I'm sure there are some who don't. Either way, it bears repeating.

During the Revolutionary War, all the folks who wanted freedom from the Crown were basically united behind one man: George Washington.

AFTER the war, however, Washington wanted no part in anything. He had done his service, and that was that. He returned home to Virginia. Well, this shocked EVERYONE. It was kind of an unspoken rule that the Commander-in-Chief became a dictator/emperor/king after such a war, but there Washington went. So now what?

Each state was basically their own little country. There was a lot of division among the states. In fact, there were nearly other mini-revolutionary wars in the states because instead of the Crown taxing them, the states were taxing them to pay back the war debt. The standing armies nearly took over, angered that they themselves haven't even been paid. It was a mess, to be sure.

In order to prevent another catastrophe, the states sent delegates to form a unifying Constitution. Only... it wasn't that easy. Each representative wanted what was best for his own state, which didn't necessarily mean that other states were benefiting in the process. They were at a stalemate. Everyone wanted the future of the country to go in a different direction.

But eventually a compromise was made. Few of the signers, if any, were truly satisfied with the document. Ben Franklin said: "I think it would astonish our enemies who are waiting to hear that our states are on the point of separation, thus I consent to this Constitution because I expect no better."

I believe many of you have drawn my point already, but if not, here it is: everything we will ever achieve for the greater good of this nation will be from compromise. Some of you are idealists and ideologues, and there's nothing wrong with that, but the fact remains that even our Constitution, which we are so desperately attempting to get back to, was a document of compromise.

This post isn't about Ron Paul. This post isn't about Rand Paul. This post certainly isn't about Mitt Romney. This post is about coming together, even though we all want something a little different and stop the fighting among ourselves. Can we really not hold the R3VOLUTION together?

I think we can if we work at it, like the Founders did. It's not going to be easy, and it's not going to be pretty. We will have to do things that we wish we would not have to all for the ongoing cause of Liberty. We are not children, so let us not be childish with each other. Let's embrace one another in our cause, and see it through to the end.

What say you?

 

[paulbot24]

Hamilton and Jefferson didn't end up killing each other in a duel. I'm not calling Romney a patriot by any stretch of the imagination. Point is, if those men could keep from strangling each other, maybe, just maybe,the old guard and our guard can figure something out. Maybe....

Note: Romney still makes me ill. Very ill.

 

[ShaneEnochs]

Note: Romney still makes me ill. Very ill.

Me as well.

 

[paulbot24]

Reminds me of Chris Rock talking a few years back about Hillary, "Is America ready for a woman president? Yes. But does it have to be THAT woman?" Romney's such a dented and dirty tool. Only if there is absolutely no other way and then we go kicking and screaming and come back with a vengeance! I like your post. Still keeping my fingers crossed for a black swan chaos event in Tampa. Hey, it's 2012 after all......

 

[ShaneEnochs]

Just for clarification, I don't support voting for Mitt Romney.

 

[jay_dub]

I know many of you already know this story, but I'm sure there are some who don't. Either way, it bears repeating.

During the Revolutionary War, all the folks who wanted freedom from the Crown were basically united behind one man: George Washington.

AFTER the war, however, Washington wanted no part in anything. He had done his service, and that was that. He returned home to Virginia. Well, this shocked EVERYONE. It was kind of an unspoken rule that the Commander-in-Chief became a dictator/emperor/king after such a war, but there Washington went. So now what?

Each state was basically their own little country. There was a lot of division among the states. In fact, there were nearly other mini-revolutionary wars in the states because instead of the Crown taxing them, the states were taxing them to pay back the war debt. The standing armies nearly took over, angered that they themselves haven't even been paid. It was a mess, to be sure.

In order to prevent another catastrophe, the states sent delegates to form a unifying Constitution. Only... it wasn't that easy. Each representative wanted what was best for his own state, which didn't necessarily mean that other states were benefiting in the process. They were at a stalemate. Everyone wanted the future of the country to go in a different direction.

But eventually a compromise was made. Few of the signers, if any, were truly satisfied with the document. Ben Franklin said: "I think it would astonish our enemies who are waiting to hear that our states are on the point of separation, thus I consent to this Constitution because I expect no better."

I believe many of you have drawn my point already, but if not, here it is: everything we will ever achieve for the greater good of this nation will be from compromise. Some of you are idealists and ideologues, and there's nothing wrong with that, but the fact remains that even our Constitution, which we are so desperately attempting to get back to, was a document of compromise.

This post isn't about Ron Paul. This post isn't about Rand Paul. This post certainly isn't about Mitt Romney. This post is about coming together, even though we all want something a little different and stop the fighting among ourselves. Can we really not hold the R3VOLUTION together?

I think we can if we work at it, like the Founders did. It's not going to be easy, and it's not going to be pretty. We will have to do things that we wish we would not have to all for the ongoing cause of Liberty. We are not children, so let us not be childish with each other. Let's embrace one another in our cause, and see it through to the end.

What say you?

I get your point, but you're wrong about the Constitution. The men in Philadelphia were there to amend the Articles of Confederation. They overstepped their bounds in writing the Constitution. Had not the Anti-Federalists insisted upon the Bill of Rights, we might have had a monstrosity right out of the box!

Not sure what you mean by standing armies, either. The Continental Army was disbanded in 1784 except for very small residual forces at a couple of forts. Yes, there had been payment problems, but these men by the time of the writing of the Constitution had returned to their civilian lives.

 

[paulbot24]

Just for clarification, I don't support voting for Mitt Romney.

Clarification: I loathe Romney and have nightmares with him singing "America the Beautiful" since I watched it.

 

[Carehn]

 

[paulbot24]

No sleep till Tampa!

 

[ShaneEnochs]

I get your point, but you're wrong about the Constitution. The men in Philadelphia were there to amend the Articles of Confederation. They overstepped their bounds in writing the Constitution. Had not the Anti-Federalists insisted upon the Bill of Rights, we might have had a monstrosity right out of the box!

Not sure what you mean by standing armies, either. The Continental Army was disbanded in 1784 except for very small residual forces at a couple of forts. Yes, there had been payment problems, but these men by the time of the writing of the Constitution had returned to their civilian lives.

Sorry if I got some of the facts wrong. I just finished watching a documentary and felt that what happened after the war seemed like what is going on here. Perhaps I misunderstood some parts.

 

[Carehn]

No sleep till Tampa!

 

[heavenlyboy34]

I know many of you already know this story, but I'm sure there are some who don't. Either way, it bears repeating.

During the Revolutionary War, all the folks who wanted freedom from the Crown were basically united behind one man: George Washington.

AFTER the war, however, Washington wanted no part in anything. He had done his service, and that was that. He returned home to Virginia. Well, this shocked EVERYONE. It was kind of an unspoken rule that the Commander-in-Chief became a dictator/emperor/king after such a war, but there Washington went. So now what?

Each state was basically their own little country. There was a lot of division among the states. In fact, there were nearly other mini-revolutionary wars in the states because instead of the Crown taxing them, the states were taxing them to pay back the war debt. The standing armies nearly took over, angered that they themselves haven't even been paid. It was a mess, to be sure.

In order to prevent another catastrophe, the states sent delegates to form a unifying Constitution. Only... it wasn't that easy. Each representative wanted what was best for his own state, which didn't necessarily mean that other states were benefiting in the process. They were at a stalemate. Everyone wanted the future of the country to go in a different direction.

But eventually a compromise was made. Few of the signers, if any, were truly satisfied with the document. Ben Franklin said: "I think it would astonish our enemies who are waiting to hear that our states are on the point of separation, thus I consent to this Constitution because I expect no better."

I believe many of you have drawn my point already, but if not, here it is: everything we will ever achieve for the greater good of this nation will be from compromise. Some of you are idealists and ideologues, and there's nothing wrong with that, but the fact remains that even our Constitution, which we are so desperately attempting to get back to, was a document of compromise.

This post isn't about Ron Paul. This post isn't about Rand Paul. This post certainly isn't about Mitt Romney. This post is about coming together, even though we all want something a little different and stop the fighting among ourselves. Can we really not hold the R3VOLUTION together?

I think we can if we work at it, like the Founders did. It's not going to be easy, and it's not going to be pretty. We will have to do things that we wish we would not have to all for the ongoing cause of Liberty. We are not children, so let us not be childish with each other. Let's embrace one another in our cause, and see it through to the end.

What say you?

lolz. Always amuses me when people mix mythology with fact this way.

 

[ShaneEnochs]

lolz. Always amuses me when people mix mythology with fact this way.

Sorry if there are inaccuracies, I was going by a documentary produced by the History Channel.

 

[jay_dub]

Personally, I'll carry on, whether under this flag (RP) or another. Though Ron would put the loss of Liberty as having its roots in 1913, I put it at 1860 with the election of our first 'Big Brother'.

Really, though, we didn't see the obscene encroachment on our daily Liberties until the US became a debtor nation, which happened in the 1980's. It was debt that financed the war on drugs, the wars of aggression abroad, the militarization of our local police, the nanny state, the growth of Gov't in general, the emasculation of Congress and on and on.

So, for me the number 1 priority is to reduce the size of our Gov't and I think the best way to do that is through sound fiscal policy which has to mean the end of deficit spending. Cut off the money and many of the abuses of power wither and die. A balanced budget simply won't allow for the squandering of our money on building either a domestic or foreign empire.

We have to be careful about upcoming posers to the movement. Now that RP has created the template and lingo, it will be easy for some to give lip service to Liberty without understanding what it takes to achieve it. We also have to recognize that Liberty can go by many names and be able to recognize what promotes Liberty without saying just that. A rose by any other name will smell as sweet.

In short, Liberty is the goal but ending policies that suffocate our Liberty is the means to achieve it. I'm hoping we can build a coalition to do just that.

 

[driller80545]

I contend that it is compromise that got us into this clusterf**k in the first place. I say to hell with compromise.

 

[Jingles]

“But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist.” -Lysander Spooner

I used to be the "SUPPORT THE CONSTITUTION" kind of guy a couple of years ago, but Spooner states my view now quite well.

 

[showpan]

"Resolved, That the several States composing, the United States of America, are not united on the principle of unlimited submission to their general government; but that, by a compact under the style and title of a Constitution for the United States, and of amendments thereto, they constituted a general government for special purposes — delegated to that government certain definite powers, reserving, each State to itself, the residuary mass of right to their own self-government; and that whensoever the general government assumes undelegated powers, its acts are unauthoritative, void, and of no force... that the government created by this compact was not made the exclusive or final judge of the extent of the powers delegated to itself; since that would have made its discretion, and not the Constitution, the measure of its powers..." Thomas Jefferson — 1798 Kentucky Resolution

"You seem to consider the judges the ultimate arbiters of all constitutional questions; a very dangerous doctrine indeed, and one which would place us under the despotism of an oligarchy... The Constitution has erected no such single tribunal, knowing that to whatever hands confided, with the corruptions of time and party, its members would become despots... I know of no safe depository of the ultimate powers of the society, but the people themselves..." Thomas Jefferson 1820 letter to William Jarvis:

"This is a government of the people, by the people, and for the people no longer. It is a government of corporations, by corporations, and for corporations." Rutherford B. Hayes 1876

In 1886, ten years after President Hayes spoke those words, the relationship between United States citizens and their corporate creations changed even more dramatically: corporations became "natural persons" under the law, sheltered by the Bill of Rights and the Fourteenth Amendment. It started with California in a court case titled "Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad". Later that year, the U.S. Supreme Court let the state court ruling stand with these words: "The Court does not wish to hear the arguments on whether the provision in the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution applies to these corporations. We are all of the opinion that it does." Sixty years later, Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas wrote, "There was no history, logic, or reason given to support that view."

"Corporations, which should be the carefully restrained creatures of the law and the servants of the people, are fast becoming the people's masters." Grover Cleveland 1888

President Cleveland should have kept more careful watch on his Attorney General if this was truly his concern. Just one year earlier, in 1887, Mr. Olney had quietly told railroad executives that the world's first regulatory agency, the Interstate Commerce Commission (ICC), was to be, "a sort of barrier between the railroad corporations and the people..." To the public, the new ICC was justified as a way to protect people from railroad corporations such as Southern Pacific Railroad Corporation, which was accused of cheating farmers on land sales, making secret pacts with large businesses to drive out smaller ones, and even destroying the equipment of rival railroads. The large railroad companies used the ICC as a legal way of fixing prices so upstart railroads could not charge less than them. ICC Commissioner Charles Perkins of Chicago, Burlington & Quincy Railroad Company said bluntly in 1888, "Let us ask the [ICC] Commissioners to enforce the law when its violation by others hurts us."

Since the creation of the first regulatory agency, an alphabet soup of agencies have been created by state and federal governments: the Food and Drug Administration (FDA), the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), the National Labor Relations Board (NLRB), the California Department of Forestry (CDF), the Bureau of Land Management (BLM), and hundreds of others.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

Sorry if there are inaccuracies, I was going by a documentary produced by the History Channel.

With all due respect, don't listen to the HC. It became little more than a propaganda outlet quite a while ago. Get real books from varying perspectives and make up your own mind. Books by serious historians are peer reviewed and more likely to be accurate than some stuff on cable TV.

 

[showpan]

I find that actually reading letters and documents written from the time period are much more fascinating and meaningful as they are uninterpreted. It takes a little while to learn the dialect since words have changed meanings, rewritten just as our history is rewritten over and over and over....
There are many excellent resources online that contain huge volumes of uninterpreted history.

 

[jay_dub]

With all due respect, don't listen to the HC. It became little more than a propaganda outlet quite a while ago. Get real books from varying perspectives and make up your own mind. Books by serious historians are peer reviewed and more likely to be accurate than some stuff on cable TV.

I had an American History professor that told us on the first day of class, "Forget everything you have learned so far. It's all propaganda."

That was many years ago and his words still ring true for me today. I credit that man (Professor Therill) with giving me the gift of a curious mind.

Another bit of sage advice that I picked up along the way, "They can never take from you what you know."