Legalising all drugs, where would they bough?

[dvictr]

coccaine ruins lives more because of the fact that possesion is a fellony and it is expensive as hell.. so people spend whole paychecks on that...

decriminalization lowers prices and possible tax revenue

 

[murrayrothbard]

Your retarded. Why would anyone think that we should legalize these damaging drugs. Let me tell you why I think you who are for complete legalization need to be institutionalized.

1. My uncle almost completely ruined his life by doing drugs. It started with pot, then cocaine, heroine, and god knows what else. He had a great paying job with NAPA as one of the highest executives on the west coast, he lost it, along with his beautiful wife, and children. Now he is in his late 50's and works as a used car salesman and can not remember over 20 years of his life because of all the drugs he was taking. Luckily he is now helping other addicts and is starting to make up for lost time with his two children.

2. The same can be said about my brother in law. It is a similar story, although he can not get himself out of high school because all he cares about is getting high. I will not be surprised if he never moves out.

3. Lets take a look at The Netherlands, where these drugs are legal. All you have to do is walk through Amsterdam ounce to see all the scum shooting up in the streets, they of course get needles and safe places to shoot up paid for by taxpayers. And anyone that says that The Netherlands never had a problem is a filthy liar, do any research and you will find that when these "tolerant" laws to legalize drugs were passed, there was a rash of young men and women who died from their use. Legalizing drugs will make problems worse. Where do you draw the line, what will we legalize next, sex in the streets? Hey, if it feels good do it right? THERE IS A REASON THAT THESE LEFT-WING COUNTRIES ARE STARTING TO ELECT CONSERVATIVES, THESE POLICIES DO-NOT-WORK!!!!!!

This train of thought will be the death of America and will give birth to a nation with no morals and no soul, plain and simple. The truth is that doing any type of illegal drugs and using legal drugs knowingly wrong should not be tolerated. I am all for the states deciding what is best, but do not expect the vast majority of Americans to support legalization. I am from Olympia, Washington which is a very liberal city, and I know hard core socialists who would never in a thousand years support this type of talk. Not to mention mainstream voters who would have the exact same reaction to this garbage as I have. This is an area where I think you all who are advocating legalization need to wake up and think about what you are saying. Your ignorance about how drugs can ruin people's life's knows no bounds. Try talking to someone like me who has had an addict in the family and see what they say. Everyones life is better without drugs and those who take them should be ridiculed and shunned, thats my opinion.

No matter what I still love Ron Paul!

1) That's your uncle's fault.
2) again, that's your brother-in-laws fault
3) Never been there, but will agree that decriminalizing drugs while at the same time subsidizing their use (via state provided paraphenalia, treatment, etc) is insane.

You own your body. You should be able to put anything you want into it, HOWEVER, YOU AND ONLY YOU are responsible for the consequences. Like someone said earlier, it's natural selection. If you want to be a junkie, nature has a way of cleaning up.

 

[Richard in Austin]

The point a lot of people seem to miss...

There's a very basic point a lot of people seem to miss in the whole 'War On Some Drugs' debate:

Whose body is it? I claim it as my own, so where the hell does the Federal Government get the right/authority to tell me what I can and cannot put into it?

If it is my life, where does the State get the right to say that I cannot end it when and how I see fit? (I'm not suicidal, just saying that the anti-suicide statutes presume that the State has, or thinks it has, a controlling interest in my life)

On another note, there are countries that do not have minimum drinking age laws, and children in those countries generally aren't tempted to do stupid things with alcohol. Been there and seen it.

If all drugs were legal, surely some folks would drug themselves into oblivion. But that's THEIR choice, nobody else's.

 

[DaneKirk]

There's a very basic point a lot of people seem to miss in the whole 'War On Some Drugs' debate:

Whose body is it? I claim it as my own, so where the hell does the Federal Government get the right/authority to tell me what I can and cannot put into it?

If it is my life, where does the State get the right to say that I cannot end it when and how I see fit? (I'm not suicidal, just saying that the anti-suicide statutes presume that the State has, or thinks it has, a controlling interest in my life)

On another note, there are countries that do not have minimum drinking age laws, and children in those countries generally aren't tempted to do stupid things with alcohol. Been there and seen it.

If all drugs were legal, surely some folks would drug themselves into oblivion. But that's THEIR choice, nobody else's.

BUT IT IS WRONG!!!!! THESE THINGS RUIN PEOPLE'S LIVES AND FAMILY'S!!!!!! Spare me the BS about "that's THEIR choice." There is such thing as the difference between right and wrong. Why in gods name should we just let people ruin themselves and then have the state use taxpayers dollars to get them back to normal, it is just wrong. And that is why it will never gain enough support, I am glad that I have that on my side. Do you think the founding fathers would want a nation of pot heads? You people amaze me with your outright ignorance!

 

[Andrew-Austin]

Drugs that grow out of the ground should be legal, other drugs like cocaine should not be in my opinion.

BUT IT IS WRONG!!!!! THESE THINGS RUIN PEOPLE'S LIVES AND FAMILY'S!!!!!!

Only some illegal drugs do. Natural hallucinogens are illegal even though for the most part they are used for spiritual and relaxation purposes.

Thats why I say the line should be drawn and let only natural drugs be legal, America probably is not ready to legalize hardcore recreational drugs like cocaine.

Really the drug problem is a cultural problem, people see drugs as recreational aids for partying. Other cultures honor and respect drugs, they don't use them recreationally.

 

[murrayrothbard]

Why in gods name should we just let people ruin themselves and then have the state use taxpayers dollars to get them back to normal, it is just wrong.

Why would taxpayers be subsidizing drug users?

 

[nickcoons]

Your retarded. Why would anyone think that we should legalize these damaging drugs.

I think the better question is, why should they be criminalized? It's already been said, but the government has no controlling interest in anyone's life.

1. My uncle almost completely ruined his life by doing drugs. It started with pot, then cocaine, heroine, and god knows what else. He had a great paying job with NAPA as one of the highest executives on the west coast, he lost it, along with his beautiful wife, and children. Now he is in his late 50's and works as a used car salesman and can not remember over 20 years of his life because of all the drugs he was taking. Luckily he is now helping other addicts and is starting to make up for lost time with his two children.

And your uncle did all of this while these drugs were illegal. So how does this example support your argument?

This train of thought will be the death of America and will give birth to a nation with no morals and no soul, plain and simple. The truth is that doing any type of illegal drugs and using legal drugs knowingly wrong should not be tolerated.

Socially, I would agree with you. I won't associate with people that harm themselves in this way. But I fail to see how this converts into a legal position.

I am all for the states deciding what is best, but do not expect the vast majority of Americans to support legalization.

You're probably right, because too many people (probably yourself included) equate legalization with support. I have never used drugs and never will, nor do I support the idea that people should. I think it's stupid. But I believe in legalization.

This is an area where I think you all who are advocating legalization need to wake up and think about what you are saying. Your ignorance about how drugs can ruin people's life's knows no bounds. Try talking to someone like me who has had an addict in the family and see what they say.

I can't seem to follow your logic. I too have an addict in the family. And just like your uncle and brother-in-law, my relative became an addict in spite of the fact that his drug of choice is completely illegal. The laws that you're advocating obviously don't work, and that is reason enough to abolish them. Drug use is a medical and social problem, not a legal problem. It needs to be treated like any other medial and social problem.

I agree with you that people need to be convinced that drug use is a bad choice. But laws won't and don't achieve that goal.

Everyones life is better without drugs and those who take them should be ridiculed and shunned, thats my opinion.

I don't disagree with you here.

 

[nickcoons]

BUT IT IS WRONG!!!!! THESE THINGS RUIN PEOPLE'S LIVES AND FAMILY'S!!!!!! Spare me the BS about "that's THEIR choice."

Yes, it is wrong and it can and does ruin families. But "that's their choice" is not BS, it's truth.

There is such thing as the difference between right and wrong.

But "right and wrong" is subjective. Some people believe it's wrong to marry someone of the same sex. Some people believe just as strongly that people of different skin colors shouldn't marry as you do about drug use. Should we make laws banning all of the things that people think are wrong?

There's a reason that we don't (and shouldn't) use this line of reasoning to make laws. Because no one agrees on everything about what's right and what's wrong.

Why in gods name should we just let people ruin themselves and then have the state use taxpayers dollars to get them back to normal, it is just wrong.

We shouldn't. We should let people ruin themselves and then not have the state use taxpayer dollars to get them back to normal.

People are going to use drugs whether they're legal or not, as you well know from your personal experience with your relatives. You can look anywhere in the animal kingdom and find animals with defects, either genetic or otherwise, that cause damage to themselves until they die. Only humans display the need to save defective people. If someone is so intent on doing damage to themselves, the entire human race is better off by letting themselves be removed from the gene pool. If they instead procreate, then you will have a nation (or world) of pot heads because they'll be passing that defect to their offspring.

 

[hard@work]

Yep, and all thanks to a federally created price floor on sugar. Isn't government great?

'

I would reaaaaallly love some info on this ... you have any idea where I can source it?

 

[hard@work]

BUT IT IS WRONG!!!!! THESE THINGS RUIN PEOPLE'S LIVES AND FAMILY'S!!!!!! Spare me the BS about "that's THEIR choice." There is such thing as the difference between right and wrong. Why in gods name should we just let people ruin themselves and then have the state use taxpayers dollars to get them back to normal, it is just wrong. And that is why it will never gain enough support, I am glad that I have that on my side. Do you think the founding fathers would want a nation of pot heads? You people amaze me with your outright ignorance!

The founding fathers were distillers of the highest order. Franklin himself said that beer was a proof that God loves us and wanted us to be happy; I agree and thank Him for the gift of a fine ale. They also enjoyed tobacco, and a variety of teas. I know many pot users (I am not myself) and they are better off than alcoholics. This is in personal, spiritual, and business life. I know individuals who have and will again experiment with other substances as well. Those who do not delve into toxic substances too heavily and do not involve themselves with physically addicting or heavy use of psychologicaly addicting substances remain perfectly normal if not a little more relieved of stress.

The enemy is addiction. I grew up in a home with an alcoholic father, and I have lived with an alcoholic through college. In all my life of being around substance use of one type or another nothing has shown itself to be more damaging than alcohol addiction. While some narcotics such as methanphetamine lead to similar if not more visible deterioration of the body and spirit, the destructiveness of alcohol is much more powerful from what I have seen. The discussion on substance abuse is nothing more than hipocracy and rhetoric justifying draconian immoral abuse of liberty in the name of stopping that which should instead be healed. The real sickness is not addiction, it is those who fight addiction with force and hatred.

So, to say that "you people" display ignorance is slightly offensive to me. Not that I blame you for casting out the word ignorance in ignorance. Your life experiences I am sure have had tragedy in them from this problem and I deeply empathize. But you have a conic point of view because of this. And really, who's right is it to say that beer is the only legal concious altering substance that shall be consumed?

As for who you have "on your side" in regards to this issue ... that number is much smaller than you believe. No matter what the government agencies would like to have you or the people believe. Very few Americans support any war on Americans, even the war on drugs.

 

[xao]

BUT IT IS WRONG!!!!! THESE THINGS RUIN PEOPLE'S LIVES AND FAMILY'S!!!!!! Spare me the BS about "that's THEIR choice." There is such thing as the difference between right and wrong. Why in gods name should we just let people ruin themselves and then have the state use taxpayers dollars to get them back to normal, it is just wrong. And that is why it will never gain enough support, I am glad that I have that on my side. Do you think the founding fathers would want a nation of pot heads? You people amaze me with your outright ignorance!

Why don't you try to intervene then? He is in your family.

But you have NO right to tell other people what to do with their lives or dictate what they can or cannot do. NONE.

The only power you have is at the voting booth. Only there can you vote for or against something.

 

[real_native70]

Main point is

BUT IT IS WRONG!!!!! THESE THINGS RUIN PEOPLE'S LIVES AND FAMILY'S!!!!!! Spare me the BS about "that's THEIR choice." There is such thing as the difference between right and wrong. Why in gods name should we just let people ruin themselves and then have the state use taxpayers dollars to get them back to normal, it is just wrong. And that is why it will never gain enough support, I am glad that I have that on my side. Do you think the founding fathers would want a nation of pot heads? You people amaze me with your outright ignorance!

The main point is why should this be a Federal Government Problem?
I live in a dry county and yes there are still many dry countys in the US. The same would happen with drugs if left up to state and local goverments. Some states would tolerate it some will not and that is the way it should be. Also if someone wants to get high that's there buisness aslong as they don't bother me. I tried some stuff when i was younger and the main reason was because it was illegal and bad and it was the cool thing to do. If you take the coolness out of drugs most people would never try it.

 

[Ncturnal]

Your retarded. Why would anyone think that we should legalize these damaging drugs. Let me tell you why I think you who are for complete legalization need to be institutionalized.

1. My uncle almost completely ruined his life by doing drugs. It started with pot, then cocaine, heroine, and god knows what else. He had a great paying job with NAPA as one of the highest executives on the west coast, he lost it, along with his beautiful wife, and children. Now he is in his late 50's and works as a used car salesman and can not remember over 20 years of his life because of all the drugs he was taking. Luckily he is now helping other addicts and is starting to make up for lost time with his two children.

First off, that's his own fault. Being illegal didn't make a bit of difference either, just like being legal wouldn't have changed the situation.

2. The same can be said about my brother in law. It is a similar story, although he can not get himself out of high school because all he cares about is getting high. I will not be surprised if he never moves out.

Again, legalization has no effect in that case either. Maybe your family should get help and combat the actual cause of their problems.

3. Lets take a look at The Netherlands, where these drugs are legal. All you have to do is walk through Amsterdam ounce to see all the scum shooting up in the streets, they of course get needles and safe places to shoot up paid for by taxpayers. And anyone that says that The Netherlands never had a problem is a filthy liar, do any research and you will find that when these "tolerant" laws to legalize drugs were passed, there was a rash of young men and women who died from their use. Legalizing drugs will make problems worse. Where do you draw the line, what will we legalize next, sex in the streets? Hey, if it feels good do it right? THERE IS A REASON THAT THESE LEFT-WING COUNTRIES ARE STARTING TO ELECT CONSERVATIVES, THESE POLICIES DO-NOT-WORK!!!!!!

I call BS on this one. You are sensationalizing, or better yet, completely full of shit. Not once during any trips to the Netherlands have I ever seen anyone shooting up in the streets, nor do friends of mine there validate your claim. At least be factual in your responses or we might get the impression that yet another person in your family (you specifically) has a drug problem as well. I don't deny that heroin is used there, but it's NOTHING like you describe.

This train of thought will be the death of America and will give birth to a nation with no morals and no soul, plain and simple. The truth is that doing any type of illegal drugs and using legal drugs knowingly wrong should not be tolerated. I am all for the states deciding what is best, but do not expect the vast majority of Americans to support legalization. I am from Olympia, Washington which is a very liberal city, and I know hard core socialists who would never in a thousand years support this type of talk. Not to mention mainstream voters who would have the exact same reaction to this garbage as I have. This is an area where I think you all who are advocating legalization need to wake up and think about what you are saying. Your ignorance about how drugs can ruin people's life's knows no bounds. Try talking to someone like me who has had an addict in the family and see what they say. Everyones life is better without drugs and those who take them should be ridiculed and shunned, thats my opinion.

We already have enough evidence to understand prohibitionist policies do not work. They haven't prevented drug abuse in your family and they won't in anyone else's either. Those policies have only created more crime, crowded prisons, and a severe burden on taxpayers.

 

[FreedomAndLaw]

The main point is why should this be a Federal Government Problem?
I live in a dry county and yes there are still many dry countys in the US. The same would happen with drugs if left up to state and local goverments. Some states would tolerate it some will not and that is the way it should be.

Why is that the way it should be? No plant/fungi should be "illegal". We should focus more on education of safe use and alternatives to combat what triggers the impulse to try a specific substance. An example would be education about anxiety and stress alternatives so say something like nicotine wouldn't seem like the only way to relieve stress. Allowing states to decide would be fine if it weren't for the decades of propaganda and misinformation. Wouldn't freedom grant me the right to take responsibility for and to alter my own state of consciousness as i see fit? I think Mckenna sums it up pretty nicely "Peoples minds like their bodies must be a domain free from government control"

I do however agree with your position applied to the handling of compound and synthetics, because a a few 2nd year biochemistry students can turn themselves into a major threat to political stability in a long weekend.


Dennis Mckenna on war on drugs : http://youtube.com/watch?v=NoSvvzm93Bk

Terence Mckenna 1996 : http://youtube.com/watch?v=nq6N4kQK-KA

 

[ZenX]

I'm pretty sure that oxycontin and ritalin have ruined far more lives than most illegal drugs have. I've no statistics, just a hunch. Just kicked an oxy habit myself...I can't believe doctors prescribe that. I've chosen to live with tremendous back pain than be an addict to pharmaceuticals.

 

[fortilite]

Texas and California should not be forced to live under the same drug laws. The feds should have no say in the matter.

 

[aji]

The main point is why should this be a Federal Government Problem?
I live in a dry county and yes there are still many dry countys in the US. The same would happen with drugs if left up to state and local goverments. Some states would tolerate it some will not and that is the way it should be. Also if someone wants to get high that's there buisness aslong as they don't bother me. I tried some stuff when i was younger and the main reason was because it was illegal and bad and it was the cool thing to do. If you take the coolness out of drugs most people would never try it.

I think that this is the main point here and the point that Ron is trying to make, actually 2 points. We are not trying to argue any moral implications, and dangers.

1. The federal government should not control this. It is a waste or resources and money. I am sure someone can find the statistics on the billions and billions of dollars that are wasted in the feds controlling drugs with no real effect.

2. The federal government should not control your life.

As far as any future controld if drugs were not controlled by the feds but still illegal. I feel that any control would be better handled at a local level.