Led Zeppelin copyright case.

[presence]

Suppose you had 2 perfect anarchist societies. Couldn't you have one that allowed unlimited copying and one that didn't? Wouldn't the one that protected intellectual property have a higher standard of living since all the top engineers would want to live there? Why would you want to "hope" that you can copy some inventions from the other society when you could just have the inventors live in your society?

Your question makes no sense. The only way to prevent me from copying you is through coercive violence. An anarchist society by its nature endorses non aggression, so there cannot be an "anarchist society" that "protected ideas".

Wouldn't the one that protected intellectual property have a higher standard of living

its not the government's job to increase standard of living, its the "the peoples'" job to bring justice to acts of theft and violence.

copying is not theft because in the case of theft the original owner no longer possesses the stolen item.

 

[Zippyjuan]

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2...stifies-stairway-to-heaven-led-zeppelin-trial

Expert testifies Stairway to Heaven chord progression used 300 years ago

Led Zeppelin’s attorneys on Friday brought in music expert Lawrence Ferrara, who testified that the only similarity between Taurus and Stairway to Heaven was a “descending chromatic minor line progression”.

Ferrara said that musical element was used 300 years ago, as well as in many pop songs since then.

Also on Friday, Led Zeppelin musician John Paul Jones testified that his former bandmate Jimmy Page had never mentioned American band Spirit, whose song Led Zeppelin are being accused of stealing a riff for their 1971 hit Stairway to Heaven.

Jones, 70, appeared in federal court in Los Angeles on Friday in a copyright infringement trial in which the British rock band are accused of copying the opening riff to Stairway to Heaven from the 1967 instrumental Taurus by Spirit.

When asked if guitarist Page, the co-writer of Stairway, had ever mentioned Spirit, Jones said no.

 

[Madison320]

Your question makes no sense. The only way to prevent me from copying you is through coercive violence. An anarchist society by its nature endorses non aggression, so there cannot be an "anarchist society" that "protected ideas".

You can "endorse" non aggression but that won't stop it. People will still kill and steal.

its not the government's job to increase standard of living, its the "the peoples'" job to bring justice to acts of theft and violence.

copying is not theft because in the case of theft the original owner no longer possesses the stolen item.

How do "the peoples" bring justice to acts of theft and violence and who defines theft and violence? Just because YOU claim copying is not theft doesn't make it so.

 

[presence]

You can "endorse" non aggression but that won't stop it. People will still kill and steal.

surely they will... but surely when they do SCARCE property will be destroyed or missing

How do "the peoples" bring justice to acts of theft and violence and who defines theft and violence?

I sense a mocking there with the term peoples'; you'll note I included a possessive apostrophe... so I'm not sure where you're going, my grammar was correct
https://www.quora.com/How-do-you-write-peopless-Is-it-peopless-or-peoples

nonetheless...

I suspect in an anarchist society there would be a citizen's arrest culminating in a decentralized court of concerned citizens issuing peer judgement.
That's not to say justice couldn't be had for violence or theft in a statist system.

Ultimately one's peers define violence and one's peers define theft in light of the meaning of the terms.

Violence clearly involves force and personal harm
Theft clearly involves depravation of scarce property

Just because YOU claim copying is not theft doesn't make it so.

do you still have your idea after I copy it?
then nothing was taken; I have pulled from the common.
very simple really.

for there to be theft there must be deprivation of a scarce resource previously held in possession

if I breathe the air in the same room as you I have not deprived you of your own breath
If I act upon some idea you may or may not have shared with me I have likewise not deprived you of your idea

 

[loveshiscountry]

Led Zeppelin is being sued for supposedly copying the beginning to Stairway to Heaven. The band Spirit wants a certain percentage of the millions the song has made over the years. I have a question about copyright laws. Shouldn't you have to show harm in a copyright case? I don't think it's enough to show you copied a piece of the song, you should have to show that your "copying" actually harmed the victim. If you copied a book, word for word and started selling it, you'd be directly stealing sales away from the true author. That would be actual harm. In this case I don't see how it cost Spirit any money, if anything it may have boosted their sales from the publicity.

Chic song, Good Times, got the writer recognition for the music on Rappers Delight by The Sugarhill Gang. As it turns out, Sugarhill also stole the lyrics.

 

[Zippyjuan]

Nothing is 100% truely original- everything is based on what came before. Question is how much is borrowing and how much is stealing?

 

[TheCount]

China has very limited IP law. They have plenty of creativity, reverse engineering, and resultant manufacturing industry.

That's a very fancy way of saying "China doesn't need IP law because their lack of IP law has resulted in an economy wherein innovation is discouraged and industry is wholly dedicated to the commoditization of things invented elsewhere."

 

[presence]

That's a very fancy way of saying "China doesn't need IP law because their lack of IP law has resulted in an economy wherein innovation is discouraged and industry is wholly dedicated to the commoditization of things invented elsewhere."

That's a fancy way of saying the government's role is subsidization of failed business models.

 

[presence]

Nothing is 100% truely original- everything is based on what came before. Question is how much is borrowing and how much is stealing?

No the only question is what am I willing to produce and what are you willing to pay.

Anything outside of that is state socialism.

 

[TheCount]

That's a fancy way of saying the government's role is subsidization of failed business models.

Sweet strawman, can you point out where in my post I said that?

 

[presence]

Sweet strawman, can you point out where in my post I said that?

wherein innovation is discouraged

which would seem to indicate that you think governments should "encourage" aka subsidize innovation

 

[Zippyjuan]

which would seem to indicate that you think governments should "encourage" aka subsidize innovation

The writers of the Constitution thought so. Many of the great innovations of the 20th Century occurred in the United States and were encouraged and supported by the Government. How many significant discoveries or breakthroughs occurred in countries without patent and copyright laws? Even the discovery and development of the United States was government subsidized.

 

[presence]

The writers of the Constitution thought so. Many of the great innovations of the 20th Century occurred in the United States and were encouraged and supported by the Government. How many significant discoveries or breakthroughs occurred in countries without patent and copyright laws? Even the discovery and development of the United States was government subsidized.

just because the government recognizes a "discovery" does not mean that person was the "first" to think about the idea... they were just the first to apply for their work permit from uncle

 

[Zippyjuan]

just because the government recognizes a "discovery" does not mean that person was the "first" to think about the idea... they were just the first to apply for their work permit from uncle

So no examples of places without things like copyright being highly innovative countries?

 

[Madison320]

The writers of the Constitution thought so. Many of the great innovations of the 20th Century occurred in the United States and were encouraged and supported by the Government. How many significant discoveries or breakthroughs occurred in countries without patent and copyright laws? Even the discovery and development of the United States was government subsidized.

Don't get carried away. Copyright laws are one thing. Having the government "encourage" development is totally different and actually discourages innovation.

 

[presence]

So no examples of places without things like copyright being highly innovative countries?

nearly everything ever invented anywhere prior to 1800? practically everything ever invented prior to the 1950's?

 

[Zippyjuan]

nearly everything ever invented anywhere prior to 1800? practically everything ever invented prior to the 1950's?

Didn't say that but pick any time period you like. How do non- copyright countries compare to copyright countries when it comes to innovation?

 

[Madison320]

I sense a mocking there with the term peoples'; you'll note I included a possessive apostrophe... so I'm not sure where you're going, my grammar was correct
https://www.quora.com/How-do-you-write-peopless-Is-it-peopless-or-peoples

nonetheless...

??? You're getting weird. Next time I'll try to cut and paste to avoid offending you.

I suspect in an anarchist society there would be a citizen's arrest culminating in a decentralized court of concerned citizens issuing peer judgement.
That's not to say justice couldn't be had for violence or theft in a statist system.

Ultimately one's peers define violence and one's peers define theft in light of the meaning of the terms.

So the author of a book that was copied could make a citizen's arrest of the copier. And the concerned citizens could find the copier guilty and force him into a jail cell. Therefore there's nothing inherent in a anarchist society that would prevent it from prosecuting copyright violations.

 

[nickpruitt]

Jury decides Zeppelin didn't steal Stairway.