Ladies and Gentlemen

Ivash said:
It's kind of funny- libertarians share this belief with communists that Obama and Romney have no differences. Communinsts, of course, believe both are way too conservative, while libertarians believe both are far too liberal.
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We also share the belief with communists that both are far, far too corporatist (also known as fascist).
 
Ivash said:
It's kind of funny- libertarians share this belief with communists that Obama and Romney have no differences. Communinsts, of course, believe both are way too conservative, while libertarians believe both are far too liberal.
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It's even funnier that connedservatives think they do.
 
acptulsa said:
We also share the belief with communists that both are far, far too corporatist (also known as fascist).
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Uh, corporatism isn't fascism. At all. To oversimplify the matter, fascism is where everyone and everything works for the good of the state, and that includes corporations- in Germany and Italy corporations were ordered around by the state. Yes they liked fascism more than communism, but that was because one called for their subservience while the the other called for their abolition. Fascism is much closer to socialism than most people realize.

"Whatever communists are, blinded by media propoganda isn't it. (Other propoganda, possibly.)

Perhaps what you are perceiving is that critical thinking leads to that conclusion."

Read what I said again and think about it the last bit of it (critically if you must).
 
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Ivash said:
Uh, corporatism isn't fascism. At all. To oversimplify the matter, fascism is where everyone and everything works for the good of the state, and that includes corporations- in Germany and Italy corporations were ordered around by the state. Yes they liked fascism more than communism, but that was because one called for their subservience while the the other called for their abolition. Fascism is much closer to socialism than most people realize.

"Whatever communists are, blinded by media propoganda isn't it. (Other propoganda, possibly.)

Perhaps what you are perceiving is that critical thinking leads to that conclusion."

Read what I said again and think about it the last bit of it (critically if you must).
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economic fascism is corporate cronyism. Look at Mussilini.
 
Ivash said:
Uh, corporatism isn't fascism. At all. To oversimplify the matter, fascism is where everyone and everything works for the good of the state, and that includes corporations- in Germany and Italy corporations were ordered around by the state. Yes they liked fascism more than communism, but that was because one called for their subservience while the the other called for their abolition. Fascism is much closer to socialism than most people realize.
Click to expand...

Fascism is actually defined as the union of corporate interests and the government. Of course, it isn't all that simple. For example, Bayern (the Messerschmidt people) had strong influence in the Nazi (or 'National Socialist') Party, and that influence got them some high-profile, high-profit contracts for aircraft like the Bf- (Me-) 109 and -262 piston and jet powered fighters. This in spite of the fact that Heinkel designed aircraft that were, in some ways, superior.

So, Bayern had the better relationship with the government, but Heinkel benefitted as well. The Nazi government disregarded the Treaty of Versailles, which allowed Heinkel (and Bayern, Dornier in particlar, and others) to design, build and sell aircraft larger than the light sport aircraft that Germany had been limited to while they did observe the treaty limitations. And, of course, the war was a boon for Heinkel, whether they got the cream of the wartime contracts or not.

Now, shall we make the discussion yet more complicated, or are you satisfied that we all know what we're talking about here?

sailingaway said:
economic fascism is corporate cronyism. Look at Mussilini.
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Excellent example. But no one should be so silly as to think this died with Mussolini. Ferrari nearly shut down his little factory in Modena back in '53--more than a decade after il Duce's death--because he was tired of paying massive business taxes and seeing that money go to Fiat/Alfa Romeo.
 
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Dick Chaney said:
yes I am a troll, and clearly so, you may have not found it funny but I did. I actually think Dick Cheney is a piece of trash who should rot in hell for crimes against humanity in the 9/11 cover-up, and Romney is a closet-progressive funded by bankers. Still surprised why so many people thought I was serious though. Move along, move along.
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Well played sir. I shall reverse my rep decision
 
Ivash said:
It's kind of funny- libertarians share this belief with communists that Obama and Romney have no differences. Communinsts, of course, believe both are way too conservative, while libertarians believe both are far too liberal.
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libertarians generally believe both are far too fascist (which is considered "right" by the false left-right paradigm).
 
Dick Chaney said:
Why don't you crazy people just get behind Romney so we can get Obama out of the white house? Romney is a true conservative that will protect our 2nd amendment rights, get rid of Obamacare, audit the federal reserve (which apparently is all u loonies whine about, even though Bernanke saved the economy in QE3), and attack Iran before they can nuke Israel. Is this really so much to ask?
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Just wow...
 
acptulsa said:
Fascism is actually defined as the union of corporate interests and the government. Of course, it isn't all that simple. For example, Bayern (the Messerschmidt people) had strong influence in the Nazi (or 'National Socialist') Party, and that influence got them some high-profile, high-profit contracts for aircraft like the Bf- (Me-) 109 and -262 piston and jet powered fighters. This in spite of the fact that Heinkel designed aircraft that were, in some ways, superior.
Now, shall we make the discussion yet more complicated, or are you satisfied that we all know what we're talking about here?

Excellent example. But no one should be so silly as to think this died with Mussolini. Ferrari nearly shut down his little factory in Modena back in '53--more than a decade after il Duce's death--because he was tired of paying massive business taxes and seeing that money go to Fiat/Alfa Romeo.
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I disagree with your definition, but you do know what you're talking about and I admit that a lot of the confusion is that there is no universally agreed upon definition of fascism. My studies usually have shown that several corporations did benefit, but all could be ordered around by the government- see, for instance, the partial reshaping of industry after Goebbels' declaration of total war.
 
unknown said:
Just wow...
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Turnip+truck.jpg
 
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