Kurt Bills has asked for our help

LibertyEagle said:
Yes, it's pretty depressing. The liberty candidates who have recently won, didn't win because of large scale RP supporter fundraising. Most of the funds came from one young man from the Liberty for All PAC.

If we won't get behind our own guys who have even managed to win their primaries, why are we even here?
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That's what I ask. Everybody has these false disqualifiers.
 
ssjevot said:
This is largely how I feel and the important thing to member is that he statistically cannot win. So why did he endorse Romney? It could only hurt him with voters and it cut off us for funding. Why did he turn to the establishment for funding and then come crawling back to us this late in the game when it's already apparent he's going to lose? He needed to brand himself as an independent and make it a point he wasn't endorsing Romney if he wanted to win in a very blue state that has the longest streak of voting Democrat in the presidential elections of any state in the country. He screwed up and it's too late to recover now.
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That's about how I see it. He was always a huge longshot, he took the gamble of telling us all to screw off in a desperate attempt to get establishment GOP support. That gambit failed and now he wants us to back him. His only shot was being the independent and he willing gave that up. I'd rather spend my money on winnable races.
 
specsaregood said:
That's about how I see it. He was always a huge longshot, he took the gamble of telling us all to screw off in a desperate attempt to get establishment GOP support. That gambit failed and now he wants us to back him. His only shot was being the independent and he willing gave that up. I'd rather spend my money on winnable races.
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Maybe he was hoping that the GOP would back him. Lord knows that the RP supporters were NOT. If we had, perhaps he would not have endorsed Romney.

It's one thing to say that at this point it's not worth it, because there is no way he can win. It's another altogether for some to claim that the reason they aren't going to support him is because he somehow sinned when he endorsed Romney. He only recently endorsed Romney; where was everyone BEFORE that? Certainly not helping Bills.
 
LibertyEagle said:
Maybe he was hoping that the GOP would back him. Lord knows that the RP supporters were NOT. If we had, perhaps he would not have endorsed Romney.

It's one thing to say that at this point it's not worth it, because there is no way he can win. It's another altogether for some to claim that the reason they aren't going to support him is because he somehow sinned when he endorsed Romney. He only recently endorsed Romney; where was everyone BEFORE that? Certainly not helping Bills.
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Well I for one donated to him before that, so I can only speak for myself. There were also some MN posters here saying that he has been busy running away from the liberty positions as much as possible since the primary and he upset his local RP base in the state by doing so.
 
specsaregood said:
Well I for one donated to him before that, so I can only speak for myself. There were also some MN posters here saying that he has been busy running away from the liberty positions as much as possible since the primary and he upset his local RP base in the state by doing so.
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Ah, I must have missed that. :o It makes sense now. Thanks.
 
LibertyEagle said:
Ah, I must have missed that. :o It makes sense now. Thanks.
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You don't get to go and brag massively about "The one word to describe it is, ‘momentum,’” Bills says. “We’ve built a massive grassroots movement.” based primarily on RP supporters getting you the nomination, then 2minutes later turn around and say you are not a full-on “Ron Paul Republican." Then go on to paint RP people as anti-israel, promote war and generally diss a big part of RP's message and act surprised that Ron Paul's supporters no longer want anything to do with you.
 
specsaregood said:
You don't get to go and brag massively about "The one word to describe it is, ‘momentum,’” Bills says. “We’ve built a massive grassroots movement.” based primarily on RP supporters getting you the nomination, then 2minutes later turn around and say you are not a full-on “Ron Paul Republican." Then go on to paint RP people as anti-israel, promote war and generally diss a big part of RP's message and act surprised that Ron Paul's supporters no longer want anything to do with you.
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Can you reference/source some of those things, please.
 
ClydeCoulter said:
Can you reference/source some of those things, please.
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Here is just a quick search.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/races-watch-minnesota-senate-primary_642157.html
The Hegseth team argues that Paul’s foreign policy views and fierce libertarianism is at odds with the views of most Minnesota Republicans, and Bills’s close connection to Paul would doom the GOP’s chance of defeating Klobuchar in the fall. Bills protests that he’s not a full-on “Ron Paul Republican,” even though he was among Paul’s most active supporters in Minnesota and enthusiastically introduced him at campaign events ahead of the presidential caucuses there.

Bills says he aligns with Paul predominantly on economic issues. “We’re all Ron Paul fans on economics,” says Bills’s campaign manager, Mike Osskopp. When it comes to talking about foreign policy, Bills says, Israel is an important ally and America ought not retreat from the world stage, contrasting himself from some of Paul’s well-known foreign policy stances. But, Bills adds, Republicans have to campaign in 2012 on issues regarding federal spending and the economy, not world affairs.

“That’s not what we win on in November,” Bills says. Osskopp puts it more bluntly.

“Nobody cares anymore,” he says. “We’re all a little weary of war.”
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hopefully some MN people can chime in from what they have been seeing on the ground.
 
Osskopp is part of the establishment problem within the Bills campaign that we are fighting against. The rumors floating around are that the GOPe is trying to sabatoge the Bills campaign and Osskopp is part of that. I wouldn't quote Osskopp and attribute it to Bills. Benton anyone? Bills realizes that he should have kept the Paul members on his campaign instead of following the advice of the GOPe and putting them on his staff, since that happened, his campaign has been struggling.

When Klobuchar is voting for SOPA, the Patriot Act renewal, etc.... we'll all be wishing we had put our stubborness behind us and helped a liberty candidate like Bills.

- ML
 
Michael Landon said:
Osskopp is part of the establishment problem within the Bills campaign that we are fighting against. The rumors floating around are that the GOPe is trying to sabatoge the Bills campaign and Osskopp is part of that. I wouldn't quote Osskopp and attribute it to Bills. Benton anyone? Bills realizes that he should have kept the Paul members on his campaign instead of following the advice of the GOPe and putting them on his staff, since that happened, his campaign has been struggling.

When Klobuchar is voting for SOPA, the Patriot Act renewal, etc.... we'll all be wishing we had put our stubborness behind us and helped a liberty candidate like Bills.

- ML
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I want to be the last person to bash a liberty candidate; but even if what you said is true, has he remedied the situation and replaced the establishment person with somebody that doesnt think all of us are jew-hating isolationists? Somebody that realizes you can't agree with RP on economics and disagree on foreign policy? It doesn't sound like it. Bills had one chance and that was to use the "massive grassroots" made up of RP supporters that got him the nomination; but he blew that opportunity by turning many of us away -- especially for a huge longshot race. At this point we have a number of liberty candidates running in close races who have a chance, for less money and don't have a manager that thinks we are all a bunch of anti-semites and none of them are named Kurt Bills.
 
specsaregood said:
I want to be the last person to bash a liberty candidate; but even if what you said is true, has he remedied the situation and replaced the establishment person with somebody that doesnt think all of us are jew-hating isolationists? Somebody that realizes you can't agree with RP on economics and disagree on foreign policy? It doesn't sound like it. Bills had one chance and that was to use the "massive grassroots" made up of RP supporters that got him the nomination; but he blew that opportunity by turning many of us away -- especially for a huge longshot race. At this point we have a number of liberty candidates running in close races who have a chance, for less money and don't have a manager that thinks we are all a bunch of anti-semites and none of them are named Kurt Bills.
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I'm not going to outright say that we're shopping around.... the old campaign manager is running another liberty candidate's campaign now, so if anyone has a suggestion... send them to ML.
 
DGustafson said:
I'm not going to outright say that we're shopping around.... the old campaign manager is running another liberty candidate's campaign now, so if anyone has a suggestion... send them to ML.
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Well that would be good news; but its probably too late. He blew the trust factor and actually harmed the public's image of all of us. Too late for me anyways, to each their own.
 
ssjevot said:
This is largely how I feel and the important thing to member is that he statistically cannot win. So why did he endorse Romney? It could only hurt him with voters and it cut off us for funding. Why did he turn to the establishment for funding and then come crawling back to us this late in the game when it's already apparent he's going to lose? He needed to brand himself as an independent and make it a point he wasn't endorsing Romney if he wanted to win in a very blue state that has the longest streak of voting Democrat in the presidential elections of any state in the country. He screwed up and it's too late to recover now.
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Thats crap. You're a "newbie" in the party you "endorse" your parties presidential candadate. Now a whole different argument can be made as to whether it helps or hurts him.
 
In regards to him not being able to win, Klobuchar's numbers continue to fall. She started around 60% of the vote and has gradually continued to drop, the latest poll has her at 49%. Bills polling numbers are gradually raising and at this point in the game, Wellstone was also polling around the same as Bills and he went on to win.

If you don't feel like helping him, don't. But don't cry when Klobuchar is voting for CISPA, SOPA, the Patriot Act, the NDAA, etc...

- ML
 
I agree that Bills made some tactical mistakes in relative recent times but I just think this new venture of running for the US Senate was more difficult than he imagined. Jockeying for establishment support whilst also trying to maintain his posture with the grassroots that gave him the nomination is a fine line.

Rand pulled this off with the help of intelligent staffers but I'm not sure Bills ever received any sage advice from any of Ron's or Rand's aces. Bentivolio is in a slightly different situation in that he's in a winnable race but his staff has kept his ideological chatter to the standard talking points where someone isn't led to believe he's RP on steroids. We had our own insider problems in our race but they were never given anything they could bury Kerry on. This worked and has kept the republicans intact for the most part tho I'm sure Kerry isn't getting any of McCortter's buddies' money.

Bills was in a worse situation in that it was widely perceived that the RP folks jettisoned the MN Prez caucuses which also resulted in capturing the party apparatus as well. Then started all the rigamarole driving a wedge between the party grassroots and the former bigwigs that cut off the financial spigot and left Bills to fend for himself. Going forward, if we have our guys running for Senate seats we need to prepare to each spend the kind of dough that we threw down for Rand which I admit Bills only got a fraction of.

If nothing else but a goodwill gesture in getting Bills' name out there for next go 'round or the unlikely last minute mea culpa, it might be worth tossing some into the pot on this moneybomb. Basically, I want the new guys over at the MNGOP to not be massively embarrassed by the lack of national RP help and then relegate the party back to the old guard. So, count me in for a modest donation.
 
FSP-Rebel said:
Bills was in a worse situation in that it was widely perceived that the RP folks jettisoned the MN Prez caucuses which also resulted in capturing the party apparatus as well. Then started all the rigamarole driving a wedge between the party grassroots and the former bigwigs that cut off the financial spigot and left Bills to fend for himself. Going forward, if we have our guys running for Senate seats we need to prepare to each spend the kind of dough that we threw down for Rand which I admit Bills only got a fraction of.
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I don't have any experience with strategy for US Senate races. Your suggestions seem sound. However, for lower level races, it is important to not completely replace the establishment, IMO. It is better to let them have some power and sell them on your candidates. That way they aren't likely to actively oppose your candidates. Heck, they may even donate to and volunteer for them. We cannot win this on our own.
 
http://today.yougov.com/news/2012/09/21/minnesota/

In this new poll, Klobuchar is at 49% and Bills at 34%. If you recall, when the first polls came out, Klobuchar was above 60% and now she is down to under 50%.

Also, if you analyze the polling numbers, there were 100 more Democrats polled than Republicans, this skews the numbers a bit.

Out of Klobuchar's 415 votes, out of 847 total votes, 45 of those votes are from Republicans. If you take those away from Klobuchar, she drops from 49% to 43%. And if you add those 45 to Bills' 287 votes, he jumps up to 39%. This is well within the margin of error.

Bills can win this, history shows that the Senate races are close and the poll numbers show that if Bills gets ALL the Republicans on board, then he can win.

- ML
 
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