Kremlin Clears Way for Force in Ukraine; Separatist Split Feared

[HOLLYWOOD]

Would the West really risk losing Russian oil?

The "West" recently got the sweetest crude oil in the world... Libyan. TPTB want to control it all, ask; Nigeria, Venezuela, Syrian, Iran.

Russia goofed big time on Libya, but the Ruskies won't make the same mistake twice. The U.S., Israel, and NATO tried pulling their circus stunts in Georgia with U.S. puppet, Mikheil Saakashvili, who BTW, is not living in the country of Georgia, but the U.S.. at the Flecher School of Law at Tufts U. Medford/Somerville, MA.


After the current U.S. selected regime in Kiev ridding Russian as one of the languages of the Ukraine, don't you find all these U.S. interventionists and propagandists as hypocritical, considering the forced multinationalism in the U.S. and languages?

 

[LibForestPaul]

Why isn't Poland, Hungary, Czech, Slovakia, sending their special forces to maintain sovereignty of Ukraine. Aren't they tired of Russia yet.

 

[klamath]

And the difference between this and what the US does is that the people being occupied are welcoming this. By the end of this "invasion" the troops will likely not kill any body in the territory they are defending and they will go back to their country when the treat is over.

This is not an invasion but an invitation by the vast majority of the people in an area after the central government have shown no respect for agreements of power sharing with the Real president and regard for the ethnic Russians in the country by trying to remove Russian as a second official language.

A great deal of the Iraqis loved our intervention. We had very good relationship with the Kurdish part of Iraq. Even when I was there after they had soured on the war, 50% of the Iraqi population smiled and waved to us. Piss poor argument for intervention.

 

[juleswin]

A great deal of the Iraqis loved our intervention. We had very good relationship with the Kurdish part of Iraq. Even when I was there after they had soured on the war, 50% of the Iraqi population smiled and waved to us. Piss poor argument for intervention.

Big difference between the 2, for one the Russians are staying in the part of the country that is pro Russia, they did not initiate their invasion with a shock and awe bombing campaign. I mean who in their right might would oppose such an army who just showed the capability of killing indiscriminately thousands of your country men? Its no wonder why all those Iraqis that were on the street demonstrating against the war were all of a sudden supporting the US army.

Also you have to consider that the people are of the same ethic background, religion and their practically the same people and on top of that, they put of public rallies in support of Russia before they came. To compare what is happening in Crimera to the US invasion of Iraq, the thousands of Iraqis demonstrating against the war would have been doing the opposite, the US military would have gone in and protected just the regions that asked for its help, and the group being protected will have families, religious ties with the US.

This is not what we are seeing, this is indeed a real protective force protecting the east from a potential attack by the west.

 

[klamath]

Big difference between the 2, for one the Russians are staying in the part of the country that is pro Russia, they did not initiate their invasion with a shock and awe bombing campaign. I mean who in their right might would oppose such an army who just showed the capability of killing indiscriminately thousands of your country men? Its no wonder why all those Iraqis that were on the street demonstrating against the war were all of a sudden supporting the US army.

Also you have to consider that the people are of the same ethic background, religion and their practically the same people and on top of that, they put of public rallies in support of Russia before they came. To compare what is happening in Crimera to the US invasion of Iraq, the thousands of Iraqis demonstrating against the war would have been doing the opposite, the US military would have gone in and protected just the regions that asked for its help, and the group being protected will have families, religious ties with the US.

This is not what we are seeing, this is indeed a real protective force protecting the east from a potential attack by the west.

Yep, more twisting and justification for FOREIGN government intervention. For your information thousands of Iraqis died in gas attacks, and firing squads because they didn't support their government. There was NO organized attempt to exterminate the Russian population before the Russians moved in. I could go on all freaking morning posting way more convincing reasons for foreign intervention in Iraq versus Crimea but it still wouldn't make it right anymore than all you arguments in support of Russian military intervention.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

After the current U.S. selected regime in Kiev ridding Russian as one of the languages of the Ukraine, don't you find all these U.S. interventionists and propagandists as hypocritical, considering the forced multinationalism in the U.S. and languages?

Pretty much everything about this situation is hypocritical. Just goes to show that the manipulators have no real principles, it's all just tactics and techniques for power and control.

 

[GunnyFreedom]

Big difference between the 2, for one the Russians are staying in the part of the country that is pro Russia, they did not initiate their invasion with a shock and awe bombing campaign. I mean who in their right might would oppose such an army who just showed the capability of killing indiscriminately thousands of your country men? Its no wonder why all those Iraqis that were on the street demonstrating against the war were all of a sudden supporting the US army.

Also you have to consider that the people are of the same ethic background, religion and their practically the same people and on top of that, they put of public rallies in support of Russia before they came. To compare what is happening in Crimera to the US invasion of Iraq, the thousands of Iraqis demonstrating against the war would have been doing the opposite, the US military would have gone in and protected just the regions that asked for its help, and the group being protected will have families, religious ties with the US.

This is not what we are seeing, this is indeed a real protective force protecting the east from a potential attack by the west.

Seriously, you are justifying armed invasions as long as countries other than the US does it?

That's not how the NAP works. What you are describing is the infamous isolationism canard. "build a wall and let the heathens do as they will."

It's wrong when we do it, it's wrong when anybody does it. If you can justify Russia rolling up uninvited in a sovereign nation with tanks and APC, then you are only half a heartbeat from justifying America doing the same thing, save only the direction of national loyalty.

 

[eduardo89]

Seriously, you are justifying armed invasions as long as countries other than the US does it?

That's not how the NAP works. What you are describing is the infamous isolationism canard. "build a wall and let the heathens do as they will."

It's wrong when we do it, it's wrong when anybody does it. If you can justify Russia rolling up uninvited in a sovereign nation with tanks and APC, then you are only half a heartbeat from justifying America doing the same thing, save only the direction of national loyalty.

Russia isn't rolling in uninvited. The people of Crimea have welcomed them and even asked for them to come in.

 

[GunnyFreedom]

Russia isn't rolling in uninvited. The people of Crimea have welcomed them and even asked for them to come in.

I am sure they are uninvited by someone.

FWIW, I would speculate that a two-state solution is the best here. Poll all of the people of age who have fixed residences and see who they want to be aligned with, and draw a N-S line center-mass where the vote's break 50/50, and then form the new states and give everyone 5 years to move to a preferred location. Voila. But I'm not in the diplomatic position to suggest such a thing.

In a true NAP foreign policy, the US would have an ambassador to Albania, and that Ambassador could actually suggest such a thing to whomever the powers might be there at the moment. Thus, not isolationism as the canard implies, but talking, as President Paul would prefer, and voila, the perfect solution with no military force.

Nevertheless, we are in no situation now that remotely resembles that. It is all about control over oil and resources, and which sphere all of them will belong to. Given current states of mind, the only likely resolution to calm down the drive to war would look more like a business deal.

But here is the real 800 pound gorilla. The implications that control over this region have for the longevity of the petrodollar.

 

[Miss Annie]

Russia isn't rolling in uninvited. The people of Crimea have welcomed them and even asked for them to come in.

Yep yep yep!
I would if I could......... You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to eduardo89 again.

 

[idiom]

Also, the Soverign nation stopped existing. Russia can roll armies through without violating the NAP as there is nothing to aggress against as long as they stick to previously 'public' property. Its no longer being homesteaded.

Its not like states or borders are real things anyway right?

 

[eduardo89]

In a true NAP foreign policy, the US would have an ambassador to Albania, and that Ambassador could actually suggest such a thing to whomever the powers might be there at the moment. Thus, not isolationism as the canard implies, but talking, as President Paul would prefer, and voila, the perfect solution with no military force.

I'm confused. What does Albania have to do with what we're talking about and why are you suggesting the US doesn't currently have an ambassador to Albania?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Ambassador_to_Albania

 

[GunnyFreedom]

I'm confused. What does Albania have to do with what we're talking about and why are you suggesting the US doesn't currently have an ambassador to Albania?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Ambassador_to_Albania

Sorry, I was working from a hypothetical and hadn't fully translated it.

Point being if someone has a proper solution, that is good and it works, that's what ambassadors are for. I was drawing a distinction between a non-aggressive foreign policy, and actual isolationism.

ETA - I always scramble all the proper nouns when I consider hypotheticals. I tell myself it's to eliminate the effect of perspectives, but it's probably a touch of something from the autism spectrum.

 

[GunnyFreedom]

Also, the Soverign nation stopped existing. Russia can roll armies through without violating the NAP as there is nothing to aggress against as long as they stick to previously 'public' property. Its no longer being homesteaded.

Its not like states or borders are real things anyway right?

Why would a sovereign nation stop existing simply because it's government flees? To me, governments are not sovereign, the people are.

ETA: if every elected person in Washington DC suddenly freaked out and bugged out to Canada, that does not give Mexico or China license to invade the United States.

 

[gwax23]

Gunny clearly hates Albanians. Reported.

In all seriousness Russia shouldnt stop at Crimea. All the Black Sea coast and Eastern Ukraine want to be part of Russia. Let them. If Russia manages it will probably focus in on Transistria next.

 

[GunnyFreedom]

Roll up on you local super-mall and you see a team of eight idling Mexican DNC-1 with armored trucks, and some kind of joint headquarters. A man stands on the perimeter flanked by foreign riflemen, "Friend! Your government has abandoned you! We are here to help maintain order and put your country back together. Please welcome our directions, it is for your safety."

A Chinese MiG burns overhead, orbiting the city.

Yeah, sorry, I don't care if every elected official in the nation suddenly fled abroad overnight and abandoned the country. That's not going to fly...

 

[eduardo89]

Gunny clearly hates Albanians. Reported.

In all seriousness Russia shouldnt stop at Crimea. All the Black Sea coast and Eastern Ukraine want to be part of Russia. Let them. If Russia manages it will probably focus in on Transistria next.

I kind of like Transnistria the way it is. It's a very strange place to visit, sort of like walking into 1982.

 

[gwax23]

I kind of like Transnistria the way it is. It's a very strange place to visit, sort of like walking into 1982.

They should turn it into a time travel theme park.

 

[eduardo89]

They should turn it into a time travel theme park.

It really felt like that. It was like time traveling into mafia-controlled Soviet territory.

 

[green73]

Is it true that Albanian men don't bathe because their women like the stench?