Kony 2012 - This won't be the last you see of this, so you may as well watch it now

[onlyrp]

Wow, there are a lot of people flipping out here.

I'm usually thought of as one who is conspiracy theory-oriented (many of them aren't even "theories"). But for people to claim the entire IC organization was a "plot" by our government is.... how do I put this...over the top? Or at least a premature and huge jumping to conclusions.

because it's impossible for a some people to imagine that there is an alternative to genuinely concerned of saving Ugandans, and opportunistic for military blood, such as....somebody just wants to make money, or take personal revenge.

 

[ClayTrainor]

I put my thoughts into a video, after watching Kony 2012... FWIW

 

[Toureg89]

I'm a firm believer of a constitutional foreign policy. I'm a firm believer that the Iraq and Afghanistan wars were a mistake. I don't want to be the policeman of the world. But how can I provide meaningful support to stopping this guy without supporting sending American troops overseas. I never abandon my principles, but it's difficult not to in this case.

marque and reprisal...

and no, its not difficult. if you acknowledge that the reasons such warlords exist is because most of the world has statist policies, especially where it concerns firearms, you realize that such problems are the cause of the people who allow statist policies to exist without resisting them.

do they deserve to be killed or mutilated because of it? no.

but removing one warlord when theres hundreds more around the world, and who easily come to power because of their advantegous access to weapons and manpower, you realize that what ever you do, including going to war with him, will have little positive effect.

 

[Toureg89]

pretty hypocritical ...Send your money or yourself to help stop Kony, but don't be for forcing our soldiers and other citizens to pay the cost of getting this guy.

this

We do have a possible constitutional option to solve this issue. It's called "Letter of Marque and Reprisal "
Article I, Section 8, Clause 11 of the United States Constitution
[Congress shall have Power...] To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water.

A "letter of marque and reprisal" would involve permission to cross an international border to effect a reprisal (take some action against an attack or injury) authorized by an issuing jurisdiction to conduct reprisal operations outside its borders.

The U.S. has used this before to capture pirates and Ron Paul suggested this for Bin Laden after September 11th and again in July of 2007.
He also suggested it for use on pirates in 2009.
However, the bills he introduced were not enacted into law and we decided to go to "war".

A War is not needed, but we can resolve this issue and help.

this

plenty of kids that need support within your own city and state, are you doing everything you can for them already?

this. if we are going to violently steal money from americans, the least we can do as freedom lovers until we can abolish the IRS is make sure as much of the confiscated wealth as possible is spent on fellow americans.

Konys been up to this for 25 years why all of a sudden does everyone give a shit?
if you wanna stop him get a gun and a plane ticket

this. except because of not only Ugandan, International, as well as, and sadly, American regulations, youll have to get the gun on the blackmarket in the bush rather than being able to fly with one from america.

I WOULD GET A FUCKING GUN AND A TICKET EXCEPT MY GOVERNMENT WONT FUCKING LET ME. That is the solution. VOLUNTEERS that FUND THEMSELVES. Not the government stepping in. This guy with the camerma wants to send in other men to fight this battle. Next time he should bring a rifle to Uganda and not a camera. "YAY we sent other men to do the fighting for our cause." fucking cowards!

once again, this. kony is the untintended consequences of international gun control and corrupt organizations vying for power. even the organizations that have been enenemies of Kony have probably used child soldiers or committed human rights violations. in the end, people shouldnt be fighting for one group or another, but defending themselves against whichever group decides to attack them.

but with gun control and forced allegiance to state (who, in africa, is just the successful warlord or despotic general), this is not possible.

remove that, and the people who care can prove it by hopping on a plane with their ar15s.

 

[Feeding the Abscess]

marque and reprisal...

NO. Advocating Letters of Marque and Reprisal for this purpose is no different philosophically than advocating invasion of Iraq. That would be an act of aggression and assassination.

 

[LibertyIn08]

Kony isn't even in Uganda anymore. I'm not certain how propping up an inefficient "charitable" organization or authoritarian regime is going to help his victims.

 

[Chainspell]

Konys been up to this for 25 years why all of a sudden does everyone give a shit?
if you wanna stop him get a gun and a plane ticket

damn right casey +rep

 

[eduardo89]

Konys been up to this for 25 years why all of a sudden does everyone give a shit?
if you wanna stop him get a gun and a plane ticket

But that would involve effort and initiative. It's much easier to share a video on Facebook and change your status to a message of outrage.

 

[Toureg89]

NO. Advocating Letters of Marque and Reprisal for this purpose is no different philosophically than advocating invasion of Iraq. That would be an act of aggression and assassination.

wrong. as stated earlier, if Kony or his LRA has ever attacked american businesses or people, that would validate a response.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack...of_aid_workers_killed_.281997.E2.80.932003.29

the LRA operates in predominately Central and Western Central Africa: Uganda, Sudan, exc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack...of_aid_workers_killed_.281997.E2.80.932003.29

there have been attacks on aid workers in those countries. if it was by the LRA, and if any of them were Americans or a part of an American NGO, then it would be valid to go after Kony.

this guy is british, but if he had been American, it would validate MnR.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4415214.stm

if it is constitutionally a government's duty to protect american ships peacefully traveling through the seas, it is also constitutionally a duty og the government to protect americans who are peacefully feeding and healing in foreign lands.

 

[intelliot]

My response

I wrote a response to this video on my blog: http://www.elliotmlee.com/2012/kony/

Brief excerpt:

…

We indeed live in a world where terrible things happen.

They happen every day. Every minute. Every second.

And we can do a lot to stop bad things from happening.

We should push for an adequate police force. We should encourage our friends and family who are helping to organize governance, fight crime, and set up fair and just laws that keep people safe. I’m sure that’s exactly what many local Africans, near the scenes of the crimes, are doing.

We should do everything that we can to ensure liberty and freedom for all people.

Each individual ought to have a right to his or her own life. And it’s pretty clear that isn’t currently the case for many people in Africa.

So we should do what we can to fix this problem. It’s a wonderful thing to spread awareness about the crimes being committed over there. We should care for others, and give graciously to people who are in need.

I believe that true Christians are marked by radical generosity. See Luke 10:25-37 and Matthew 25:31-46. We should always care for our neighbors.

So I truly admire and support the sentiment of the video.

…

But when you start talking about spending other people’s money — well, to put it plainly, that’s theft.

You don’t have a right to reach into your neighbor’s pocket and take his money. Not even if you really need it. It’s up to him to voluntarily give it to you.

…

Your comments appreciated.

 

[pcosmar]

marque and reprisal...

A basic overview
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_of_marque

Basically wiki covers it. I had studied it in a Law Library years ago.

First,, someone would have to make a claim of losses (outrage over it is not sufficient)
If a governing body approves and letters are issued,,
Then they could attempt to recover those losses.

This has nothing to do with Government forces,, nor is it a Government Hiring Mercs.

Nor is it a targeted Hit.

It is the taking of Booty.
It's a pirate thing,, you probably wouldn't understand.

 

[Toureg89]

A basic overview
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_of_marque

Basically wiki covers it. I had studied it in a Law Library years ago.

1. First,, someone would have to make a claim of losses (outrage over it is not sufficient)
If a governing body approves and letters are issued,,
2. Then they could attempt to recover those losses.

3. This has nothing to do with Government forces,, nor is it a Government Hiring Mercs.

Nor is it a targeted Hit.

It is the taking of Booty.
4. It's a pirate thing,, you probably wouldn't understand.

1. as i said earlier, the LRA has a history of targeting foreign civilians. their history being know in scant detail, one of their victims could very well have been an american person or ngo. if such a case exists (it does for spanish, portugese, french, and british civilians, its not far off to think there might have been an american victim somewhere), there goes the claim of losses.

2. the LRA probably has a stockpile of weapons, ammo, cash, and vehicles. im sure thats worth something to some one.

3. i dont believe i claimed MnR having anything to do with soldiers or mercs...i just simply said the constitutional alternative to an unconstitutional war would be MnR, and then later added the premise that they had created a victim out of an american person or ngo (which could be forprofit or nonprofit).

i dont see how MnR wouldnt cover this

4. please dont assume that i dont know basic American history. MnR was crafted in response to the Barbary pirates (an issue of contension between me an NeoCons on another site who like to use that example and the fact that TJ owned a Quran to claim the FF were gearing up for war with an immortal enemy, the muhammaden). i dont claim to know the specifics, but you have yet to tell me where this wouldnt be a possible course of action, that is unless if a thorough investigation finds the LRA has not ever victimized an American.

5. most people dont know about MnR. its possible that an american or their family who was victimized by the LRA didnt know that they could lobby a claim with the american government, or that they would even think the american government would care.

but with so much attention on the issue, if their is a legit case of the LRA having victimized an american, it wouldnt be unconstitutional to move forward with MnR against Kony, allowing for the specifics (the legislative steps that you pointed out) have been followed.

but i dont see what the big deal is in using MnR to protect Americans abroad against predators with a known history.

 

[Toureg89]

iirc, bin Laden wasnt a pirate. ive never heard of him stealing a cruise liner or shipping vessel. but he did victimize 3,000 plus americans. we all know RP did an MnR on bin laden in response to the NeoCon push for the War on Terror.

i dont see how the case is different with Kony. the only difference will be the scale of the victimization: Kony, if he has killed or harmed any americans, would have done so to a lot less of them than bin Laden has...

 

[pcosmar]

iirc, bin Laden wasnt a pirate. ive never heard of him stealing a cruise liner or shipping vessel. but he did victimize 3,000 plus americans. we all know RP did an MnR on bin laden in response to the NeoCon push for the War on Terror.

i dont see how the case is different with Kony. the only difference will be the scale of the victimization: Kony, if he has killed or harmed any americans, would have done so to a lot less of them than bin Laden has...

Did you read?

The issue of marque and reprisal was raised before Congress after the September 11 attacks[31] and again on July 21, 2007, by Congressman Ron Paul. The attacks were defined as acts of "air piracy" and the Marque and Reprisal Act of 2001 was introduced, which would have granted the president the authority to use letters of marque and reprisal against the specific terrorists, instead of warring against a foreign state. The terrorists were compared to pirates in that they are difficult to fight by traditional military means.[32] Congressman Paul on April 15, 2009, also advocated the use of letters of marque to address the issue of Somali pirates operating in the Gulf of Aden. However, the bills Congressman Paul introduced were not enacted into law.

 

[pcosmar]

Marque and Reprisal is NOT applicable to Kony.
If you are "outraged" and want to "Do Something" get a ticket and a Gun.

Go
DO

Do not rant and rave for someone else (anyone else) to do your killing for you.

He is very likely being protected by the same governments that condemn him.

Every other evil warlord in that area has been.

 

[airborne373]

"Undeclared wars are good when it's FOR THE CHILDREN."


I am a bit disappointed that some RPF members are falling for this WAR PROPAGANDA.

 

[newbitech]

While my heart goes out to the actual children who are impacted by a man like this, I cannot overlook the ignorance of the people who so quickly rally around a cause in a distant land and completely and willfully ignore the cause in their own back yards.

I am more sickened by the willfully ignorant who will see participating in this cause as their excuse to continue to be willfully ignorant of the slaughter that is happening right under their collective noses.

 

[jkob]

Our interest in Sudan and Uganda couldn't possibly because they have untapped oil reserves could it?

 

[bolil]

Yo, lets get an RPF intervention here. that money would be good for the cause. Lets get his ass. and his head. I still hold the position that getting a ticket and a gun is suicide, and that any organized effort would result in the TPTB arresting all involved. This is certainly a trickbag.

At the same time it aint right for people to advocate sending in the military to fight a battle that is outside of their purpose. I would call them cowards, except that there is NO WAY to volunteer and go there and... fight kids?

 

[Toureg89]

"Undeclared wars are good when it's FOR THE CHILDREN."


I am a bit disappointed that some RPF members are falling for this WAR PROPAGANDA.

out of the first 4 pages i read, i only saw the OP as even hinting towards advocating for a war...i dont see why thats dissappointing...

1. Marque and Reprisal is NOT applicable to Kony.
2.. If you are "outraged" and want to "Do Something" get a ticket and a Gun.

Go
DO

3. Do not rant and rave for someone else (anyone else) to do your killing for you.

He is very likely being protected by the same governments that condemn him.

Every other evil warlord in that area has been.

1. obviously i am ignorant of the specifics of the law, but looking up the term piracy, there isnt a differentiation between land, sea, or air.
Piracy is an act of robbery or criminal violence at sea. The term can include acts committed on land, in the air, or in other major bodies of water or on a shore.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracy

now if the law itself doesnt include acts on land, then obviously, we shouldnt break the constitution trying to go after Kony. but on the face value of it, piracy, for which MnR was a political engineering by the FF in response to it, includes the land, as well as the sea and air. that is where i assumed too much.

2. and you yourself are assuming too much. go back and read my 2nd post of this thread.

3. i take it you didnt read my 2nd response, cuz no where in this thread have i said anyone should be killing Kony for me. in fact, i quoted and agreed with someone who said quite the same thing about about starting a war with the LRA. but to assume because the i thought MnR applied to Kony that i was also obsessed with having him, you took a step too far. i am merely saying, IF MnR does constitutionally apply to him, then in the face of popular disgust and with evidence of his victimization of Americans, then it should be used against him. but if it doesnt apply to him, i could care less about the cause to have him killed. but morally, if he has killed an american, that makes him no different than bin Laden. both are predators. just on specifically preys on us and is easily addressable by the law, the other preys on whomever and isnt easily addressable by the law.