Know why hot water freezes faster than cool water?

If you were to boil some water and then let it cool to the same temperature as another glass of water that is at room temperature, then put the two in the freezer, you will notice the water that was boiled will freeze first. The water that wasn't boiled will freeze at a lower temperature than 0 degrees C. This is because the water that wasn't boiled still has entrained or dissolved gasses in it. It takes less time for the hot water to drop to 0 degrees C than the cool water that has to drop below 0 degrees C to freeze. I forget how much colder than 0 water with gasses dissolved in it has to be before it freezes, but it is a considerable amount more.
 
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Testing... testing... testing... the premise. Both the hot water and the cold water are now cold. 5:45 PM.
 
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If you were to boil some water and then let it cool to the same temperature as another glass of water that is at room temperature, then put the two in the freezer, you will notice the water that was boiled will freeze first. The water that wasn't boiled will freeze at a lower temperature than 0 degrees C. This is because the water that wasn't boiled still has entrained or dissolved gasses in it. It takes less time for the hot water to drop to 0 degrees C than the cool water that has to drop below 0 degrees C to freeze. I forget how much colder than 0 water with gasses dissolved in it has to be before it freezes, but it is a considerable amount more.
Though the science is still beyond me, I think I remember an explanation similar to this, that the hot water will begin the freezing process sooner, because it takes less to start lowering it's temperature than the cold water that the cooling has to get to it's lower temperature before it starts cooling... I'm guessing then, that regardless of the actual reason behind it, the cooling/heating process must be an exponential type of thing, to where if it starts cooling faster, then it ends cooling faster, regardless of where they started at.
 
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Testing... testing... testing... the premise. Both the hot water and the cold water are now cold. 5:45 PM.

6:07 PM.

Both the hot water and the cold water are now cold. The cold water seems to be freezing faster... only time will tell.
 
6:37 PM

Both are frozen but not solid. The cold water seems to be frozen harder than the hot water because I was able to poke my finger through the hot water cube but I was not able to poke my finger through the cold water cube. My experiment is not necessarily scientific, but my report is honest.
My findings: Hot Water freezes exactly as fast as cold water.
 
This does seem counter- intuitive. The hot water has to change its temperature by a greater amount before it hits the freezing point than the cold water does. It must go down to the temperature of the cold water along the way so I would think at that point the two would be doing the same thing. I do know that ice will melt faster in cold water than in hot water because they are closer to the same temperature.

Some Wiki info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mpemba_effect
Causes

Osborne observed that the top is warmer than the bottom in a beaker of water being cooled, the difference being sustained by convection. Blocking heat transfer from the top with a film of oil drastically slowed cooling. Also, the effect of dissolved air was accounted for by using boiled water. The beakers were also insulated from the bottom.

At first sight, the behaviour seems contrary to thermodynamics. Many standard physical theory effects contribute to the phenomenon, although no single explanation is conclusive. Several effects may contribute to the observation, depending on the experimental set-up:
Definition of frozen: Is it the physical definition of the point at which water forms a visible surface layer of ice, or the point at which the entire volume of water becomes a solid block of ice? Some experiments have instead measured the time until the water reached 0 °C.[5]
Evaporation: The evaporation of the warmer water reduces the mass of the water to be frozen.[6] Evaporation is endothermic, meaning that the water mass is cooled by vapor carrying away the heat, but this alone probably does not account for the entirety of the effect.[7]
Convection: Accelerating heat transfers. Reduction of water density below 4 °C (39 °F) tends to suppress the convection currents that cool the lower part of the liquid mass; the lower density of hot water would reduce this effect, perhaps sustaining the more rapid initial cooling. Higher convection in the warmer water may also spread ice crystals around faster.[8]
Frost: Has insulating effects. The lower temperature water will tend to freeze from the top, reducing further heat loss by radiation and air convection, while the warmer water will tend to freeze from the bottom and sides because of water convection. This is disputed as there are experiments that account for this factor.
Supercooling: It is hypothesized that cold water, when placed in a freezing environment, supercools more than hot water in the same environment, thus solidifying slower than hot water.[9] However, supercooling tends to be less significant where there are particles that act as nuclei for ice crystals, thus precipitating rapid freezing.
Solutes: The effects of calcium, magnesium carbonate among others.[10]
Thermal conductivity: The container of hotter liquid may melt through a layer of frost that is acting as an insulator under the container (frost is an insulator, as mentioned above), allowing the container to come into direct contact with a much colder lower layer that the frost formed on (ice, refrigeration coils, etc.) The container now rests on a much colder surface (or one better at removing heat, such as refrigeration coils) than the originally colder water, and so cools far faster from this point on.
The effect of heating on dissolved gases; however, this was accounted for in the original article by using boiled water.

Info on the UK Pound 1000 prize: http://www.rsc.org/AboutUs/News/PressReleases/2012/mpemba-effect-water-ice-hot.asp

RSC offers ÂŁ1000 for explanation of an unsolved legendary phenomenon

26 June 2012
Details at link.
 
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When I drove mixer truck we had the same discussions. We fill tanks of water for washing up and adjusting slump on site. In temps even down to -40 F, hot water froze faster. Not in the tank or equipment but, as we washed the concrete off of the back of the truck it would freeze much faster than cool or cold water, leaving a 1/4 inch of ice everywhere. It was explained that the rate of temperature loss would surpass water at a temperature close to ambient temp (sounds like laws of motion applied to thermodynamics, crazy). Mythbusters claims it is a myth but, I say from experience that it is the case. At least when spraying water on cold hard steel.
 
i doubt this phenomenon is isolate to just water. I suspect the answer has to do with viscosity and the convection environment.

We observe with tropical storms a similar though inverse effect. Hot water on the bottom, cold water on the top. In fact, the hotter the water, the colder the tops. Of course there are tons of factors involved in a weather system, but in a contained environment, like a lab beaker, the effect is aloud to occur unencumbered.

It's called convection, and all viscous fluids exhibit similar behaviors.

In fact, boiling water has a lower viscosity than room temp water. The surface area of the molecules is more spread out in boiling water, allowing the heat to be lost quicker. This creates a stronger convection that continues on through the freezing of the water. an energy flow signature that is not lost, regardless of the temps or liquids involved.

Convection + viscosity = the Mpemba Effect

Here, watch a bucket of boiling water turn to powdered snow instantly. and read a better explanation. And give the guy his grand.

http://ilovebacteria.com/waterair.htm

 
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I was under the impression that hot water froze quicker because before it cooled more water evaporated off leaving less water that had to be frozen when compared with the room temp water
 
i doubt this phenomenon is isolate to just water. I suspect the answer has to do with viscosity and the convection environment.

We observe with tropical storms a similar though inverse effect. Hot water on the bottom, cold water on the top. In fact, the hotter the water, the colder the tops. Of course there are tons of factors involved in a weather system, but in a contained environment, like a lab beaker, the effect is aloud to occur unencumbered.

It's called convection, and all viscous fluids exhibit similar behaviors.

In fact, boiling water has a lower viscosity than room temp water. The surface area of the molecules is more spread out in boiling water, allowing the heat to be lost quicker. This creates a stronger convection that continues on through the freezing of the water. an energy flow signature that is not lost, regardless of the temps or liquids involved.

Convection + viscosity = the Mpemba Effect

Here, watch a bucket of boiling water turn to powdered snow instantly. and read a better explanation. And give the guy his grand.

http://ilovebacteria.com/waterair.htm

I am impress! :D
 
So it seems to depend a lot on the water being really hot- not just warm- there is some "critical temperature" for the water to behave that way. At "less hot" temperatures, the cold water may freeze faster.
 
I don't think it's a question that it does, it's a question of why.... Pretty tough to perpetuate a lie about it, when it's really easy to verify.

It also works the opposite way that a pot of cold water will boil faster than a pot of hot water.

Seriously, I'm baffled by how scientists who study these things are baffled about this...

Water is most stable at...98.6 degrees. It takes a whole lot more energy to heat it up or cool it down. It is also not one molecule but several that interchange, probably with the temperature determining natural ratios. Basically it is NOT a linear process and the thinking on hot versus cold is seemingly done linearly.

Rev9
 
"To the first part of the question--'Does hot water freeze faster than cold water?'--the answer is 'Not usually, but possibly under certain conditions.' It takes 540 calories to vaporize one gram of water, whereas it takes 100 calories to bring one gram of liquid water from 0 degrees Celsius to 100 degrees C. When water is hotter than 80 degrees C, the rate of cooling by rapid vaporization is very high because each evaporating gram draws at least 540 calories from the water left behind. This is a very large amount of heat compared with the one calorie per Celsius degree that is drawn from each gram of water that cools by regular thermal conduction.

"It all depends on how fast the cooling occurs, and it turns out that hot water will not freeze before cold water but will freeze before lukewarm water. Water at 100 degrees C, for example, will freeze before water warmer than 60 degrees C but not before water cooler than 60 degrees C. This phenomenon is particularly evident when the surface area that cools by rapid evaporation is large compared with the amount of water involved, such as when you wash a car with hot water on a cold winter day. [For reference, look at Conceptual Physics, by Paul G. Hewitt (HarperCollins, 1993).]

"Another situation in which hot water may freeze faster is when a pan of cold water and a pan of hot water of equal mass are placed in a freezer compartment. There is the effect of evaporation mentioned above, and also the thermal contact with the freezer shelf will cool the bottom part of the body of water. If water is cold enough, close to four degrees C (the temperature at which water is densest), then near-freezing water at the bottom will rise to the top. Convection currents will continue until the entire body of water is 0 degrees C, at which point all the water finally freezes. If the water is initially hot, cooled water at the bottom is denser than the hot water at the top, so no convection will occur and the bottom part will start freezing while the top is still warm. This effect, combined with the evaporation effect, may make hot water freeze faster than cold water in some cases. In this case, of course, the freezer will have worked harder during the given amount of time, extracting more heat from hot water."


http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=is-it-true-that-hot-water
 
A simple explanation to this;

More energy is transferred during the same time interval when the difference in temperature is bigger.
So when the surrounding temperature is far below freezing, boiling or hot water will lose energy much more rapidly.
In some cases, where there is enough temperature difference, this will make hot water pass freezing temperatures faster, as cooler water.

If the heat conductivity is known, the mass and temperature of the water are known, and the surrounding temperature. One can calculate and draw a curve for the temperature of each vessel of water filled with different temperature water. When calculating which of these two vessels and their intersection with freezing point, it is known which will freeze first.

Did they really give away a 1000$ ? They made me do calculations like this in high school.
 
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my guess would be that steam (very hot water) would possess the best potential for this.

i haven't read the thread, so --oops-- if this has already been addressed.
 
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