Kids = Worthless investment?

Kids do not cost all that much. That is a myth. I should know, I come from a family of nearly a dozen siblings.

Compulsory education means your 12 siblings probably ran us $50,000-$100,000 a year in public education, and that is offloading a tremendous amount of responsibility on the part of the parents. Kids do cost money, but it is very hard to determine just how much. In the long run, kids will grow up to contribute to the economy and we will be better off than before. In the short run, they are like a tax that just goes into a vault.

When needs are fulfilled, people tend to go for what they want. Some people want to watch movies. Some people want to burn money on alcohol and drugs. Some people want to take vacations to exotic places. Some people want kids. If all we were concerned with in life was investment, it would be a very bland world.
 
If you are looking at children as an "Investment" you are confused.

Behold, children are a heritage from the Lord, the fruit of the womb a reward. Like arrows in the hand of a warrior are the children of one's youth. Blessed is the man who fills his quiver with them! He shall not be put to shame when he speaks with his enemies in the gate.

Children are a blessing.
 
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People don't have children for economic reasons, they have children because they love their spouse and want to start a family together.

And "starting a family" is different than "having children" how?

This entire thread has overlooked the only cost worth calculating: the opportunity cost. Yes adding the expenses of a child to one's life is high, but are those net benefits more than not having children at all?

I'd recommend "the Selfish Gene" by Richard Dawkins to all those who haven't read it. There is rationality in caring for others if you look at decisions based on the success rate of your genes as expressed in yourself and in others (who carry similar genes to your own with less frequency). Similarly, without having children you are essentially saying "I don't want my genes to continue."

Every decision in life is an economic decision. And its made by weighing the costs and benefits of acting against the costs and benefits of acting contrarily.
 
I think this article demonstrates nothing other than the limits of empirical analysis, particular when it applies to human beings.

First of all, one of the reasons raising children is so frustrating is because of the society we live in. Of course, it's very expensive--and therefore frustrating--when you have to deal with things like increasingly high tuition costs for increasingly little return, which is mainly the fault of the state. The state also removes children from the parents most of the day, placing them in prison-like indoctrination camps called schools, which tends to turn them antisocial, unintellectual, and isolated from their families (and, of course, the parents were brought up in those schools to). For complex reasons, you have high divorce rates, broken families, and custody battles. You have the news media constantly making parents irrationally fearful of all and sundry harms befalling their children, driving them to obsessive paranoia. Meanwhile, social security and entitlement programs render children much less of an economic "investment" then they used to be.

So put it all together and of course it seems like having children is an irrational frustration in empirical studies. But can these studies measure emotional fulfillment? No. And the proof is in the pudding. People keep having children because they want, and they keep keeping their children, sometimes going to great lengths to do so. As the rationalistic method of praxeology tells us, they do this because having, keeping, and raising children satisfies the parents' subjective desires, which, sadly for the empiricists, can't be measured as a statistic.

And it is still a good non-economic investment. Have you ever witnessed the death of an elderly person? Who's always gathered beside their bedside? Their adult children, assuming they raised them with love and care. Who's beside the bedside of dying childless old man or woman? If their lucky, their nieces and nephews.
 
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Rather disgusting in my opinion to equate a child with an investment.
Seriously, people are way too obsessed with money.
 
Kids are not worthless. But investment in kids maybe risky when there is no guarantee for world economy and human survival.
 
Compulsory education means your 12 siblings probably ran us $50,000-$100,000 a year in public education, and that is offloading a tremendous amount of responsibility on the part of the parents. Kids do cost money, but it is very hard to determine just how much. In the long run, kids will grow up to contribute to the economy and we will be better off than before. In the short run, they are like a tax that just goes into a vault.

You are making the assumption that all children are educated through the public venue. I pay for my children to be educated at home AND I pay to the tax trough for all those who use the government daycare centers. Those who are educated outside of the government program are a better investment to those who are rearing them (emotionally speaking).

We have taken a good deal of trash through the years for our choice of a large family so we sarcastically call our children our retirement plan. We raise them to be self sustaining adults and the benefit for us is the time we have today as a family. This is why it frustrates me to see parents spend the years they should have with their children as taxi drivers and social co-ordinators. It perverts what should be a time of bonding and strengthening of family ties.

The government sees them as the village property and has an agenda to make the children beneficial to the community. It takes a village to raise a child is as logical as it takes a village to bake a cake. You have too many cooks in the kitchen...
 
Who exactly as having kids as an investment? Might as well start a thread about how my baseball glove and playstation are worthless investments. All of these things are consumer goods. Parents have kids usually because they want to have kids. And regardless of the paranoia and pessimism on this board, now is the safest time ever to bring a kid into this world. People have been doomsaying for thousands of years now and theyve been wrong every time.

Also keep in mind that many things, including intelligence and political views, are largely genetic. If you want a libertarian future, you should be encouraging the people on this board to have more kids, not less.
 
Who exactly as having kids as an investment?
I dunno, my parents put me to work pretty good. As soon as my kid is able to cook, clean, do laundry, mow the lawn, pull the weeds, etc. i'll have him out there sweating in the noonday sun at childlabor wages while I sit under the back deck sipping a homebrew and "supervising".
 
Other bad investments include: going to church, travelling, learning about a broad range of topics, helping other people (unless they're rich), writing poetry, reading poetry, enjoying a sunset, and supporting losing politicians.
 
Also keep in mind that many things, including intelligence and political views, are largely genetic. If you want a libertarian future, you should be encouraging the people on this board to have more kids, not less.

Good point. Ideologies that directly or indirectly discourage child-bearing and child-rearing are inherently self-destructive. The fecund will inherent the future.
 
People don't have children for economic reasons, they have children because they love their spouse and want to start a family together.

If you are looking at children as an "Investment" you are confused.



Children are a blessing.

Rather disgusting in my opinion to equate a child with an investment.
Seriously, people are way too obsessed with money.

Glad to see some people around here have their heads screwed on straight.

Not everything in life can be broken down to a Bloomberg analysis chart or dollars and cents.

Sheesh...
 
Kids only became a bad investment after the invention of the welfare state I think, im pretty sure that before the welfare state was invented having children was a good way to ensure you would have a comfortable old age since children would actually have excess purchasing power to help you because their purchasing power was not being stolen from them in order to pay for all the elderly people that were too lazy to bother having children.

So basicly 100 years ago children might cost a good deal of money in the start but in the long run you would get alot of money back because you wouldnt have to save as much for old age.
 
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Kids only became a bad investment after the invention of the welfare state I think, im pretty sure that before the welfare state was invented having children was a good way to ensure you would have a comfortable old age since children would actually have excess purchasing power to help you because their purchasing power was not being stolen from them in order to pay for all the elderly people that were too lazy to bother having children.

So basicly 100 years ago children might cost a good deal of money in the start but in the long run you would get alot of money back because you wouldnt have to save as much for old age.

Good point.

At first I thought the claim was just stupid. Now I think it might be more insidious than that. If kids are a bad investment for parents at the micro level, then it would stand to reason that they're also a bad investment for the nation at the macro level. Sounds like something from China.
 
There are some things you cannot put a price on.

exactly. It's hilarious to see market analytics applied to raising a child. I have two children. My son was born with a genetic condition called "congenital insensitivity to pain", which is a mutation of the SCN9A gene, which is responsible for building a very specific type of sodium ion channel in the cells, which is a gateway that disperses a signal to the brain that painful stimuli has occurred. In my son, that gateway, does not open. Because of that, he bares no response to painful stimuli.

The above resulted in multiple fractures, serious injuries during "normal" play time. Using his tongue as a teething toy (he almost chewed it completely off once).

The amount of money, hardship, and legal battles his condition alone has cost our family is absolutely staggering. Yet, measured against his magnificent personality, his smile, and how much he loves his family, those costs are nothing.

I suppose someone could look at the amount of money invested in his well being and say that on paper he was a bad investment. But at the end of the day, if that person were to spend just one hour with him, I'd think they'd find that there, in fact, is no better investment a parent can make.
 
you have one life to live.

how do you set the price on experiencing such a huge aspect of life? without having kids, you don't truly experience the emotion of love to its fullest. the love you have for a spouse, a parent, or a pet is infantile in comparison.

no, kids are not a sound investment, but they are an extremely affordable ride, and the best ride you will ever go on.
 
Statement: Kids are a horrible investment financially.
Response: General population does not reproduce.
Effect: No kids to take care of said population once they are older.

What a bunch of ****ing morons.
 
Good point.

At first I thought the claim was just stupid. Now I think it might be more insidious than that. If kids are a bad investment for parents at the micro level, then it would stand to reason that they're also a bad investment for the nation at the macro level. Sounds like something from China.

Yes, that is where they want to go with this. One child policy and negative population growth. Remember people are pollutants that should be exterminated in the mind of the nwo.
 
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