Just got off the phone with HQ

[TheIndependent]

I ditched out of this campaign tonight for good. While I think Ron Paul is probably an extremely reasonable man himself and probably doesn't believe most of what was written in those newsletters, his ties are just too much to bear and when the MSM gets ahold of this, the campaign will become toxic to everyone involved in it, including Paul himself.

Even if he didn't write the newsletter articles himself, what he's shown is a gross lack of oversight over the use of his own image, and that to me spells trouble if he were to even get into the White House.

Honestly, my fellow libertarians, bail now before the damage against the libertarian movement becomes irreparable. Seriously, get out of this before it sets our movement back for a decade. We beg of you. The best we can do right now is to ironically follow Paul's own advice in a war we cannot win against the facts and evidence--trying to save face is no answer and will only make things worse. Save your reputation as a libertarian and get out NOW. I'm taking shit left and right from people who I tried to convert to Paul's campaign, and the blowback is hurting the entire movement.

And fuck Lew Rockwell if he's the ghost writer. Seriously, what I read tonight was the worst shit I've ever had to read associated with any candidate I've ever supported.

 

[AgentSmith]

Yeah we are pretty much screwed.

 

[Vaughn]

Yeah we are pretty much screwed.

Well the grassroots never failed this campaign, we always came through for the cause. If we really are sinking, well there is no group of people I am prouder to be with then you guys.

 

[AgentSmith]

Well the grassroots never failed this campaign, we always came through for the cause. If we really are sinking, well there is no group of people I am prouder to be with then you guys.

I agree, which has been my point this whole time. This is more about the people responding to a message than anything else. I am a lot prouder of this country than I have been in a long time. Its very unfortunate how this has shaken out - because Ron Paul does not deserve this kind of stain on his legacy.

 

[TheIndependent]

The grassroots can continue on and form a new voting bloc, following the tenets of freedom and liberty for all. It's unfortunate that Paul's associations with extremely unsavory groups stands to tear it all down unless people branch off IMMEDIATELY and form their own independently-organized and oriented group supporting libertarian candidates.

If people don't start repudiating the campaign immediately, the entire movement is screwed by association.

 

[Talcott]

I agree, which has been my point this whole time. This is more about the people responding to a message than anything else. I am a lot prouder of this country than I have been in a long time. Its very unfortunate how this has shaken out - because Ron Paul does not deserve this kind of stain on his legacy.

And this is what his enemies want dessertion.

You are right the message is the key.

I will stand by Ron, and wait to see him vindicated.

 

[Smidley]

And this is what his enemies want dessertion.

You are right the message is the key.

I will stand by Ron, and wait to see him vindicated.

As will I!

Thanks to this forum, I am actively denouncing these myths in my little corners of the internet. This issue has come up before, and it has been consistently debunked. Why should this time be any different?

Keep the rebuttal links coming! It's time to name names!

 

[sasha_2008]

Seriously, what I read tonight was the worst shit I've ever had to read associated with any candidate I've ever supported.

Which newsletter are you most upset about?

 

[tarabyte]

Courtney, I sadly must agree with you here as well. At some point, the fact that Ron Paul's attackers have their own unpleasant agenda becomes irrelevant. When it was one or two newsletters, I could have overlooked it as carelessness on Ron Paul's part. When it is many newsletters, I need to hear something forceful from Dr. Paul in terms of both denunciation and explanation. The statement by the campaign today was a good start (better than anything we've gotten before) but ultimately it is not suffficient.

We need to understand who wrote the letters (or at least have it established definitively that Ron Paul did not write them) and be given a sincere and plausible explanation from Ron Paul about how so many of these comments could have gone out without his knowlege. I do not deny that such a good explanation exists, I only say that I need to hear it.

For now, I need to take a break from the campaign and these forums.

There are only one or two newsletters with a real racist slant. The rest of the stuff is taken out of context.

For example, one supposedly homophobic remark, when read in context is totally not homophobic.

The newsletter exposes an agenda by the elite to brand AIDS as a "gay disease". However when the sentence is taken out of context, it sounds like the author is saying that AIDS is a "gay disease".

Huge difference! One exposing a conspiracy, the other agreeing with the spin...

This whole thing is a big smear campaign and reeks of bullshit.

Use some critical thinking, folks. Read the newsletters, do a bit of digging for yourself, don't just have a panic attack.

 

[courtney]

psst






rockwell wrote it

Yeah, well I was kinda hoping Rockwell himself would manage to come in here and clear some of this up.

Guess not....

 

[tarabyte]

I have mixed feelings. I am disappointed about some of the overtly racist stuff and homophobic stuff: "Animals are coming!", "Zooville", "limp wrist" .. but on the other hand am pleasantly surprised to read that he isn't so anti-conspiracy theory after all -- he even predicted 9/11! And some of the views - re the LA riots - are DEAD ON.

But sadly, it does reveal his bigotry. With all his support of gay marriages and so on and his other libertarian leanings, I thought he was a tolerant person (whatever that means), but he isn't and holds real prejudices to the point where he makes fun of gay people and blacks.

He COULD HAVE written it with the same meaning -- dislike of the welfare society etc -- without the same tone and racism - there are whites on welfare not only blacks -- then it would have been perfectly acceptable ...

I am not surprised he doesn't own up to these writings -- who would?

I would agree with you if the newsletters hadn't been ghostwritten.

However, until I actually hear a single audio or video clip of him making some sort of racist comment (such as what Joe Biden got caught on tape doing) I will not for a second buy into this bullshit that Dr. Paul is a racist.

No, this is just a bunch of spin and bullshit. The newsletter is not unlike starting a blog with several friends under your name, and then giving your friends moderation rights to the blog. Then your friend posting something you'd not agree with and the public latching on to it as being "official" and then 20 years later trying to prove you're an ass because of what your friend wrote on some blog.

That's just how I see it. If Dr. Paul really was a racist, there'd be some actual evidence (aka audio recording or video clip) of him making a remark. I've yet to run across a single racist person who doesn't make racist remarks, and being in the public eye as he is, he'd have slipped up somewhere and someone would have such a recording.

 

[courtney]

The grassroots can continue on and form a new voting bloc, following the tenets of freedom and liberty for all. It's unfortunate that Paul's associations with extremely unsavory groups stands to tear it all down unless people branch off IMMEDIATELY and form their own independently-organized and oriented group supporting libertarian candidates.

If people don't start repudiating the campaign immediately, the entire movement is screwed by association.

I agree. There's a point where the ship has become mortally wounded -- time to board the life rafts.

Some may choose to rearrange the chairs on deck, but that's their business.

I just hope the surviving Libertarian Dinghy isn't pulled down along with the SS Ron Paul....

 

[migueld]

..

 

[courtney]

I would agree with you if the newsletters hadn't been ghostwritten.

However, until I actually hear a single audio or video clip of him making some sort of racist comment (such as what Joe Biden got caught on tape doing) I will not for a second buy into this bullshit that Dr. Paul is a racist.

No, this is just a bunch of spin and bullshit. The newsletter is not unlike starting a blog with several friends under your name, and then giving your friends moderation rights to the blog. Then your friend posting something you'd not agree with and the public latching on to it as being "official" and then 20 years later trying to prove you're an ass because of what your friend wrote on some blog.

That's just how I see it. If Dr. Paul really was a racist, there'd be some actual evidence (aka audio recording or video clip) of him making a remark. I've yet to run across a single racist person who doesn't make racist remarks, and being in the public eye as he is, he'd have slipped up somewhere and someone would have such a recording.

The problem is that folks are often defined by the company they keep. Unfortunately, Paul allowed his company to write some paranoid, hateful, and vile crap, and under his own name, and within his own newsletter.

Interestingly enough, Paul seems to keep the same company today....

 

[Talcott]

The problem is that folks are often defined by the company they keep. Unfortunately, Paul allowed his company to write some paranoid, hateful, and vile crap, and under his own name, and within his own newsletter.

Interestingly enough, Paul seems to keep the same company today....

I think your being a bit hasty.

I will stand with Dr. Paul.

Until the FACT'S vindicate him.

 

[BucksforPaul]

This yuiop thing has admitted to being hasbara in another thread and it does not matter what this thing thinks. I think that you are a murderer of babies and it is up to you to prove me wrong. Was Rockwell ever fired? I do not trust you or your other paid volunteers and do not want to associate myself with any such objects. Cappish?

 

[BucksforPaul]

Hasbara don't get any sypathy from me or anyone else who knows exactly your true motives. It is interesting to note that things such as yourself always end up playing the victim card when their BS gets exposed. I am still waiting for proof that you supposedly did not kill babies so come on prove to us that you are innocent. You not only give the impression of being hasbara, but have admitted it so move along to your next assignment. Using your own logic or I should say illogic you shall from now on be known as baby killer until you provide proof that you are not. Then you would also have to prove that you are in fact a human being which is impossible in your case since you have already sold your soul to moluk.

 

[BucksforPaul]

Btw, I am a minority if one is going to judge me by my skin color so accusing me of being the ghostwriter is similar to grasping at straws. This is another tactic used by things such as your self right before you play the victim card. Ohh how dare anyone question your lies and accusations? How dare someone stand up to your BS?

 

[richyrichard]

Reporting has been troublesome, worried it will hinder our GOTV effort.

Individual who wrote them was immediately fired upon realization,, prior to RP returning to congress or even deciding he was running.

Dr. Paul was careless in not immediately addressing newsletters. He more or less let independent writers take over it after awhile (i.e. kinda got tired of it,) takes 'moral responsibility,' for them.
.
Dr. Paul has been condemning racism in his writings for decades; long before he had any presidential or even congressional ambitions. No motive for him to write books condemning racism while at the same time writing newsletters saying blacks are bad etc.

The Campaign will be soon coming out with a press release addressing all of this.

We need to GOTV and forget about this; this was designed to hurt our cause, and we can't let them. Let's face it, Dr. Paul likely isnt going to win this election. However, even if we don't prevail, we must gain momentum and viability to lay crucial groundwork for a libertarian revolution in the near future. (perhaps in the 2012 elections) Moreover, in the grand scheme of things, this isn't about Ron Paul, but his ideas, remember. The Dr. Paul we know and love is no racist, but it's not significant in the scheme of things.

P.S.
According to Andrew Sullivan from a November blog, Jamie Kirchick actually supports Giuliani for president and apparently has been out to get Dr. Paul for sometime; he originally hyper-ventilated about that $500 check...

One thing to keep in mind about racism is that racism and nationalism are not the same thing. Racism is a belief that one race should, by right, dominate another race or all other races. Nationalism is simply the promotion of one's own racial heritage and culture with mutual respect for other races doing the same thing. Ron Paul may have expressed certain views of a nationalist nature that have been construed as racism. These days, if anyone merely objects to double standards in race relations, the leftist media will cry, "racism!".

 

[courtney]

Just thought I'd drop by and see if Rockwell has offered any light on the subject yet. I see he hasn't here, unfortunately....

On December 26, 2007 Lew Rockwell posted this on his blog:

As I said sometime ago, those who smear Ron Paul will live to regret it, as their own readers and advertisers shun them. MSM, here are the new rules: no lying, no ridiculing, no suppressing. Remember "journalistic ethics"? You really have no choice. The Internet rules. "You'd better start swimmin', or you'll sink like a stone, 'cause the times they are a-changin'."

The word going around, Rockwell, is that you're a central figure within this latest controversy. Yeah, the media reported it, but it appears that they stuck to the facts despite whatever motivation they had for publishing those facts.

So, Rockwell, here is my respectful request to you on behalf of all of us Ron Paul supporters left holding this vile sack of garbage. No lying, no ridiculing, no suppressing. Remember "journalistic ethics"? You have a choice, and I respectfully ask that you take responsibility for any and all of it that originated from your hand, and explain your side of the story. Remember, it will be better for you to stop swimming and sink like a stone than to selfishly sacrifice the entire movement, including Libertarianism in general....

Thanks for considering.