Judge throws out 4 of 5 charges against Jesse Benton

[helmuth_hubener]

I beat him to the thread (yes!), so allow me to say:

This is exactly what AF predicted would happen.

 

[phill4paul]

I beat him to the thread (yes!), so allow me to say:

This is exactly what AF predicted would happen.

Yup...

You watch what happens...

He'll skate on the actual FEC charges, but he's going to go to jail on a USC 1001 conviction.

If any statement he made to the everfucking feds during the course of the investigation turns out to be false, for any reason, then that is considered prima facie evidence of guilt.

If he hung around here and listened to nutcases like me, he might have picked up the idea to dummy the fuck up and NEVER talk to cops, ever.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?479648-DOJ-indicts-Jesse-Benton-and-John-Tate/page8

 

[Spikender]

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?479648-DOJ-indicts-Jesse-Benton-and-John-Tate/page8

Holy shit, thanks to you two for reminding me of that post.

AF is too good at what he does.

 

[phill4paul]

Here's a little more on WHY the judge dismissed the charges....

U.S. District Judge John Jarvey dismissed John Tate from the federal case, saying the charges against him were based on information the government obtained during FBI interviews last year. Tate consented to the interviews but only after signing a document known as a proffer agreement, in which prosecutors agreed that if charges were brought they would not offer in evidence any statements made by him "except in a prosecution for false statements, obstruction of justice in the current investigation, or perjury ..."

During the interviews Tate, a longtime aide to the former Texas congressman, said he was unaware of any payments to Sorenson and stated there were no payments from the Paul campaign. Tate claimed the government breached the agreement by charging him with conspiracy, causing false records, causing false campaign expenditure reports and a false statements scheme, using his statements in the FBI interview as evidence before the grand jury which indicted him.

Jarvey said prior courts have ruled proffer agreements are part of constitutional due process protections that must be upheld. His ruling allows the government to refile the dismissed charges separately but prosecutors can't use the proffer statements in bringing the charges.

"The decision regarding the dismissed counts will be made at a later date post trial," said Peter Carr, a spokesman for the U.S. Department of Justice which is prosecuting the case.

Since Benton signed a similar proffer agreement four charges against him also were dismissed. Benton now faces one count of lying to the FBI. His attorney declined to comment.

http://www.usnews.com/news/politics...ped-against-ron-pauls-former-campaign-manager

 

[Kurt Evans]

--

 

[hells_unicorn]

(1) I think Jesse is basically a good person, and I think he probably believed he was acting within the letter of the law.

(2) Kent Sorenson's eleventh-hour betrayal of Michele Bachmann carried a stench that may have cost Ron more Iowa votes than it got him, and embracing Sorenson's endorsement strikes me as a serious tactical and moral error.

(3) Constitutionally, that tactical and moral error is none of the federal government's business.

(4) This is a textbook example of selective prosecution.

(5) The prosecutors offered statements in evidence after promising in advance not to offer them in evidence. They lied.

1. I think so as well, but remember, a lot of "good" people go to prison for holding the wrong opinion in these United States of America.

2. Agreed here as well, but hindsight is always 20/20 and Ron was probably happy to get all the help he could.

3. In principle, you are correct, but Uncle Sam has no principles, so this is a moot point from their standpoint.

4. Indeed, the result of giving too much power to prosecutors.

5. Prosecutors lie as a matter of general practice, this has been the case for quite a while actually. If a prosecutor isn't lying to someone, it's the exception, not the rule, and when all is said and done, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of prosecutors are burning in hell.

 

[Galileo Galilei]

It's OUTRAGEOUS for a prosecutor to claim and then use proffered testimony in a grand jury as evidence of an alleged overt act that allegedly furthered and alleged conspiracy.

Think about it.

 

[hells_unicorn]

It's OUTRAGEOUS for a prosecutor to claim and then use proffered testimony in a grand jury as evidence of an alleged overt act that allegedly furthered and alleged conspiracy.

Think about it.

Ethically it's outrageous, but it happens a lot more often than people know, and it usually only makes the news if the defendant has high-profile connections. It's even more outrageous that often times judges will allow this crap without so much as batting an eye.

In the justice system's current state, the only way to get a fair trial is to have a judge that is either a 100% constitutional originalist, or otherwise has an extreme level of skepticism towards the police and prosecutors alike and won't let crap like this slide.

 

[Matt Collins]

Lesson Number One: When federal investigators, be it from the FBI or US Attorney's office, or whatever, start asking you questions, you shut the hell up and wait for your attorney...

Unless like Martha Stewart, he didn't know he was talking to a federal investigator. Remember, THAT's why Martha Stewart went to jail, for lying to people who were pretending not to be feds.

 

[r3volution 3.0]

Yep, whenever a fishing expedition is engaged in by the Feds, they'll always manufacture the whole "lying to federal investigators" B.S., which is absurd considering the Judge just said that there wasn't anything illegal done. One of the great things about being a federal investigator is being given the right to lie in court and get away with it, a luxury also afforded to federal prosecutors. This is the reason why everybody is afraid of going to court, and also one of the reasons why I refuse to EVER swear an oath in a court room, let alone engage in the old Anglican superstitious gesticulations with the bible that go with it.

I wonder what all of the anti-Benton people have to say about this.

^^^read that again lurkers

Don't ever talk to police, it can only ever hurt, whether you're innocent or guilty - it never helps.

 

[Natural Citizen]

Yup...

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?479648-DOJ-indicts-Jesse-Benton-and-John-Tate/page8

Heh. He sure nailed that one. Yep. He sure did alright.

 

[eleganz]

The anti-bentons are awfully silent today.

 

[phill4paul]

The anti-bentons are awfully silent today.

What are you expecting? Some kind of apology. A retraction of our statements that we didn't, and still don't, want Jesse anywhere near the campaign?

You are not going to get it. The disenchantment with Benton started long before the indictment.

 

[Badger Paul]

A six-charge indictment still stands against a third Paul aide, Dimitri Kesari.

Which sets up the case rather nicely. Kesari did all the dirty deeds and Tate and Benton covered up for him. Even if Benton and Tate are convicted on just one charge, lying to the Feds is still serious enough to be doing some time in the pen.

 

[Badger Paul]

"They claim the government is targeting them only, pointing out that Sorenson also was secretly paid by Bachmann's campaign yet none of those staffers face prosecution. "

That's because they didn't launder the cash to make the payments.

The whole thing was so stupid. There was no reason on earth or in heaven to pay Kent Sorenson a f'ing cent. None! That's why the Bachmann people screamed bribery, because they were paying him under the table, so the only reason for him to switch sides was a bribe. She screamed bloody murder and it cost Paul Iowa. That's the bottom line.

 

[Matt Collins]

She screamed a bloody murder and it cost Paul Iowa. That's the bottom line.

No, the media cost Ron Iowa by puffing up Santorum at the last minute.

 

[Badger Paul]

"No, the media cost Ron Iowa by puffing up Santorum at the last minute."

Well, there was some weight behind their hot air given VanderPlatts endorsement of Santorum and all 20 Duggars running around Iowa in matching clothes plugging for Santorum too. Throw on top of that sandbox fight between Paul and Bachmann over the bribing of a state senator for his endorsement and its no wonder voters surged away from her and towards Santorum, who basically held the same views and undecided voters decided not to take a risk on Paul given the negativity and attacks against him (remember he was getting hit the "newsletters" crap at the same, a problem Benton and his minions in the claque should have dealt with months before.)

 

[phill4paul]

No, the media cost Ron Iowa by puffing up Santorum at the last minute.

MSM = convenient scapegoat. Does media influence elections? Hell's yes! But, if this is just a fact of life we may as well just throw in the towel, right? Boots on the ground = grassroots. The only thing that can counter MSM and it's status-quo drivers.

 

[Anti Federalist]

For the love of God, DO NOT TALK TO COPS.

 

[lfrml]

For the love of God, DO NOT TALK TO COPS.

I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just trying to clarify if you mean this under almost any circumstances.

1.) If my house was burglarized or my car stolen, should I not report it because things might just get worse?

2.) If I witnessed a crime (like a stabbing), should I not give police details that might help catch the attacker?

Until the stories of the last couple of years changed my opinion, in the past I would have always cooperated with the police.