Join, or Die

Agreed. Including through the extremely flawed Joe Biden if that's how things end up.

"Join, or die" is supposedly a rallying cry. But if your argument is "Come on join me! We got Rudy on our side! (He's better than half the Ron Paul foot soldiers here.)" then sorry for not feeling especially motivated.

But maybe you didn't mean it as a rallying cry. Maybe you meant it as a threat.

It's a rallying cry for those willing to understand the gravity of this moment, and you know that. I'm not sure why you're trying to score points on me here. I mentioned Rudy not for his greatness as a selling point, but precisely because of his terribleness. I was making a point.
 
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I've never seen any difference in Trump & TPTB- only his bratty mouth.

Pretty sure he & the Clintons were on the same page in the last election- especially since he had a meeting with them before the run. And, obviously, she's not locked up.:seenoevil::hearnoevil::speaknoevil:

Imagine for the sake of argument that you're the President of the United States, and you are fully committed to cleaning house and bringing justice back to this country.

Now, try to comprehend how hard it would be to have any justice done when #resist is the order of the day, and everything you do is perceived as a fascist abuse of your office against political opponents, and the vast majority of DOJ and FBI officials at all levels are corrupt political operatives who you have no direct control over. FBI Director Wray is mentioned in the Biden emails as involved with one of the same Russian projects as Hunter Biden, for instance. The President can fire bureaucratic heads and suggest a candidate to the Senate to appoint, from a list of candidates they'd be willing to appoint...but without cooperation from the bureaucracy underneath to follow your priorities and execute their responsibilities faithfully, that's about it.

What do you do in this situation? No matter who you are, cleaning house in this environment requires breaking a totally overwhelming problem down into smaller pieces that might be possible to address. Step one might be something like...fill 300 federal court vacancies with judges that are as close to originalist as you can find. Is that proof that he's doing his best, by itself? No, but it's at least consistent with the idea that he may very well be, when you really start to think about the magnitude of the task.

And yes, we really do need to think about it, in great detail. Deep thinking wasn't supposed to stop in 2008, when we thought we reached all the final answers about how the world works, and the perfect ideology for formulaically solving every problem ever on autopilot.

Look at how they treat him. Just open your eyes. It's worse than Ron Paul. ...speaking of whom, do you recall who spoke up in 2012 that he didn't understand why everyone was ignoring Ron Paul, because he thought Paul had good ideas? Donald Trump.
 
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Not gonna lie: A big part of the reason I made this thread was to give you some much-deserved backup. You've been talking sense for years.

Thanks brother, but you have no idea how much I wish I was wrong and was talking gibberish.

But I don't think so...we're in a tight spot and had better recognize that and join together damn soon.
 
To the OP, I'm sure you have the best intentions. But I also know what they say about them and the road to hell. I'm glad for your Christian awakening. But I have not heard God say "Trump is the way, walk ye in him." I do know that we wrestle not against flesh and blood. I also know that the "You've got to give me unlimited power to fight the Marxists" argument was used by a certain Austrian painter back in the 1930s. I'm not following an "orange Caeser" any more than I would a brown dictator in Obama. I gave grudging tacit support to Trump during the election because he is indeed better than Biden. As much as I loath Lindsey Graham, I am glad he held onto his seat. A lot of money poured into that. For his own selfish reasons he gave some of that money to the Trump legal team. Nice for him. But he's still slime. I'm not even sure what you want people to "join and do" or even why. When it comes to Trump supporters, even taking both halves of this forum, those you love and those you now seem to disdain, that's still a drop in the proverbial bucket and pretty much worthless. I understand the psychological boost of having more people agree with you, but I've learned over these years that such a boost is worth just slightly more than a high priced escort. So, what are you wanting people to do. Go "Yea Trump?" Okay. "Yea Trump." (Spitting the vomit out of my mouth.) Support Rand and Massie as they support Trump and (hopefully) guide him into the right direction? Yeah...most people are already doing that. Obsess even more over a recount that we can't control? Frankly....I've probably done too much of that already. But hey. Cheerlead away. Don't let me stop you.
 
Fair point, but OpSec isn't mutually exclusive with getting organized and vocal to create social proof for a "will not comply" attitude. PerSec might be. There's a tradeoff between influencing people and making yourself a target prematurely, but divided we fall.

Already been "Will Not Comply" rallies in Washington,,and expect another soon.
 
Imagine for the sake of argument that you're the President of the United States, and you are fully committed to cleaning house and bringing justice back to this country.

Now, try to comprehend how hard it would be to have any justice done when #resist is the order of the day, and everything you do is perceived as a fascist abuse of your office against political opponents, and the vast majority of DOJ and FBI officials at all levels are corrupt political operatives who you have no direct control over. FBI Director Wray is mentioned in the Biden emails as involved with one of the same Russian projects as Hunter Biden, for instance. The President can fire bureaucratic heads and suggest a candidate to the Senate to appoint, from a list of candidates they'd be willing to appoint...but without cooperation from the bureaucracy underneath to follow your priorities and execute their responsibilities faithfully, that's about it.

What do you do in this situation? No matter who you are, cleaning house in this environment requires breaking a totally overwhelming problem down into smaller pieces that might be possible to address. Step one might be something like...fill 300 federal court vacancies with judges that are as close to originalist as you can find. Is that proof that he's doing his best, by itself? No, but it's at least consistent with the idea that he may very well be, when you really start to think about the magnitude of the task.

And yes, we really do need to think about it, in great detail. Deep thinking wasn't supposed to stop in 2008, when we thought we reached all the final answers about how the world works, and the perfect ideology for formulaically solving every problem ever on autopilot.

Look at how they treat him. Just open your eyes. It's worse than Ron Paul. ...speaking of whom, do you recall who spoke up in 2012 that he didn't understand why everyone was ignoring Ron Paul, because he thought Paul had good ideas? Donald Trump.

I'm considered pretty adept in marketing & the way the MSM treats Trump is NOTHING like Ron Paul.

Ron was HE-WHO-MUST-NOT-BE-NAMED. he was never mentioned- his name left out in caucuses where he came in #1 or #2. He did NOT exist- he was too dangerous to TPTB & he was to be buried.

Trump is part of the Political Kabuki Theatre. Billions of bucks in free advertising & promotion- doesn't matter if it's negative- the saying is there's no such thing as "bad" promotion- and is very true. Many here love Trump because of that "bad" promotion, which is it's exact purpose.

Trump surrounds himself with "Swamp" creatures & everyone says it's not his fault- when it was Obama, everyone was screaming. The Warp-Speed vaccination carp should be enough to warn everyone that something dangerous is afoot- BUT, if Trump does it, it's OK.

It's time to get out of The Matrix and

WAKE UP.

 
I'm considered pretty adept in marketing & the way the MSM treats Trump is NOTHING like Ron Paul.

Ron was HE-WHO-MUST-NOT-BE-NAMED. he was never mentioned- his name left out in caucuses where he came in #1 or #2. He did NOT exist- he was too dangerous to TPTB & he was to be buried.

Trump is part of the Political Kabuki Theatre. Billions of bucks in free advertising & promotion- doesn't matter if it's negative- the saying is there's no such thing as "bad" promotion- and is very true. Many here love Trump because of that "bad" promotion, which is it's exact purpose.

Trump surrounds himself with "Swamp" creatures & everyone says it's not his fault- when it was Obama, everyone was screaming. The Warp-Speed vaccination carp should be enough to warn everyone that something dangerous is afoot- BUT, if Trump does it, it's OK.

It's time to get out of The Matrix and

WAKE UP.



I'm willing to cede every one of your points here.

I've made it clear many many times why I voted Trump and encouraged others to do so.

It is not worth repeating those reasons yet again, as they are moot...Trump lost and Biden will be appointed president with all that entails.

Leaving aside the side show distractions of the political Kabuki theater you rightly note, what is to be done next, when it is clear that a very real pogrom is about to be launched against us.

My idea to buy time, and stave it off for another four years by supporting Trump has failed.

Whose idea should we try next?

Mini-Me's idea is to rally around the election and claim fraud to buy that time, which is very likely to have happened, but in my post in another thread on this, I point out that, IMO there was no more fraud than any other election, which is to say quite a bit of fraud, but almost impossible to prove, and again, would be moot if there were enough numbers one way or the other.

I agree very much however, we should Join or Die...in order to Separate or die.
 
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I'm willing to cede every one of your points here.

I've made it clear many many times why I voted Trump and encouraged others to do so.

It is not worth repeating those reasons yet again, as they are moot...Trump lost and Biden will be appointed president with all that entails.

Leaving aside the side show distractions of the political Kabuki theater you rightly note, what is to be done next, when it is clear that a very real pogrom is about to be launched against us.

My idea to buy time, and stave it off for another four years by supporting Trump has failed.

Whose idea should we try next?

Grey Man until enough are ready to stand together.

And then.....

 
The rhetoric coming out of the left has been clear enough. Either a coalition forms to stop them, or everyone falls separately.

I will cast my lot with the likes of Mini-Me and Anti Federalist without any hesitation. I know kindred spirits when I see them. I will also accept any ally in this cause regardless of what I perceive their flaws to be. For whatever disagreements conservatives, libertarians, and, hell, even neoconservatives have, we don't want to forcefully ruin each other's lives. The left will seek the destruction of any opposition with the approval of their own conscious.

I would love nothing more than the absolute destruction of the left and the ability for conservatives, libertarians, and even neoconservatives to work out a way to have a healthy functioning society for themselves. Hell, each group could even have their own geographic area and live separately. However, there will be no peace so long as this incarnation of the left exists. They want revenge, blood, and to erase the history of a country they despise. No amount of philosophical purity testing will combat that.
 
I'm considered pretty adept in marketing & the way the MSM treats Trump is NOTHING like Ron Paul.

Ron was HE-WHO-MUST-NOT-BE-NAMED. he was never mentioned- his name left out in caucuses where he came in #1 or #2. He did NOT exist- he was too dangerous to TPTB & he was to be buried.

Trump is part of the Political Kabuki Theatre. Billions of bucks in free advertising & promotion- doesn't matter if it's negative- the saying is there's no such thing as "bad" promotion- and is very true. Many here love Trump because of that "bad" promotion, which is it's exact purpose.

Trump surrounds himself with "Swamp" creatures & everyone says it's not his fault- when it was Obama, everyone was screaming. The Warp-Speed vaccination carp should be enough to warn everyone that something dangerous is afoot- BUT, if Trump does it, it's OK.

It's time to get out of The Matrix and

WAKE UP.



No, Ender. They didn't ignore Donald Trump starting out, because they thought he was too ridiculous to be a real threat at first. They laughed. Then they fought. Then he won. Now they're actually trying to do the "ignoring" part by constantly censoring him. They don't ignore him entirely, but they certainly ignore any story that helps him...say, the Biden laptop story.

I get it. Trump doesn't fit your mental model of an outsider...but your mental model is broken here.
 
To the OP, I'm sure you have the best intentions. But I also know what they say about them and the road to hell. I'm glad for your Christian awakening. But I have not heard God say "Trump is the way, walk ye in him." I do know that we wrestle not against flesh and blood. I also know that the "You've got to give me unlimited power to fight the Marxists" argument was used by a certain Austrian painter back in the 1930s. I'm not following an "orange Caeser" any more than I would a brown dictator in Obama. I gave grudging tacit support to Trump during the election because he is indeed better than Biden. As much as I loath Lindsey Graham, I am glad he held onto his seat. A lot of money poured into that. For his own selfish reasons he gave some of that money to the Trump legal team. Nice for him. But he's still slime. I'm not even sure what you want people to "join and do" or even why. When it comes to Trump supporters, even taking both halves of this forum, those you love and those you now seem to disdain, that's still a drop in the proverbial bucket and pretty much worthless. I understand the psychological boost of having more people agree with you, but I've learned over these years that such a boost is worth just slightly more than a high priced escort. So, what are you wanting people to do. Go "Yea Trump?" Okay. "Yea Trump." (Spitting the vomit out of my mouth.) Support Rand and Massie as they support Trump and (hopefully) guide him into the right direction? Yeah...most people are already doing that. Obsess even more over a recount that we can't control? Frankly....I've probably done too much of that already. But hey. Cheerlead away. Don't let me stop you.

You're right that this forum has become tiny, but it has minds that are capable of being influential if only they commit to making a difference in the real world. There was once a time when this forum was full of activists for Ron Paul, who felt that they had agency to make the world a freer place. Now we're facing the promise of a totalitarian hellscape for, well, as long as it takes for God to intervene, if we can't stop it ourselves with His help. Is your response really just to shrug helplessly? Would the Founding Fathers have shrugged helplessly? Would all of the men and women who helped them repel British subjugation?

We may be exhausting ourselves staying informed, but unless we're exhausting ourselves informing others, I'm not sure if we're taking this seriously enough. We have agency, and there are a lot of disenfranchised Trump voters right now who hugely outnumber the elites. The problem is, people are reluctant to stand up and be counted. They don't want to be alone, and many may even think that accepting defeat will let things "go back to normal." It won't. The old normal is gone forever.

What does that have to do with RPF's? There was once a time when people here understood and feared totalitarianism, and they had a fire in their belly to stop it. Judging by the responses in this thread, that time of situational awareness may have passed...but I'm here to remind people that we were not born to be passive spectators. We are among the few who might actually comprehend the horrors that America is about to face. That makes it our responsibility to get serious and help the disenfranchised Trump voters, our fellow Americans, understand exactly what will happen to them if they lay down and take this.

None of us can affect a recount or court battle or stop the Great Reset as silo'ed individuals, and we can't stop it if we act like it's someone else's problem. We can only do it as part of a massive movement, and every single person counts. That means we have to rally as many people into civic engagement as possible. I am asking you to roar, and to help others do the same. Will you whimper instead?

Americans must NOT be cowed into silent compliance, or our children and grandchildren will likely live in a hellish dystopia indefinitely. We must all find our voices now to shout "NO," not alone but together, and it is the moral duty of those who know the stakes to build energy and morale.

Reach out to everyone you know and trust and help them understand: We must not comply...not with accepting an illegitimate election, and not with accepting the Great Reset. They must understand well enough that they reach out to everyone they know, for the same purpose.

That is what I'm asking you all to do. Are we patriots, or is that too much to ask?

Regardless of how anyone personally feels about Trump, he is the most effective symbol and rallying point available right now, and our need to resist this takeover is dire. Resisting isn't about violence, or a shooting war, or crushing your enemies before you and hearing the lamentations of their women either. This is about rallying full awareness, courageous protest, and civil disobedience of whatever type necessary to avert that horror, because it may be the very last chance we ever get. We have to make them blink somehow.

Does that make more sense?

And yes, I struggle a lot with the "wrestle not against flesh and blood" thing. Navigating what we must pray for, and what we must do ourselves, is rarely easy. All I know is, the Founders won. Maybe we can too.
 
Grey Man until enough are ready to stand together.

And then.....

I'm all for it...there's just one part missing:

1 - Grey Man...Ghost

2 - ????

3 - People rise up in righteous anger and smash the system.

The Marxists beat us to it...they figured out Number 2.
 
You're right that this forum has become tiny, but it has minds that are capable of being influential if only they commit to making a difference in the real world. There was once a time when this forum was full of activists for Ron Paul, who felt that they had agency to make the world a freer place. Now we're facing the promise of a totalitarian hellscape for, well, as long as it takes for God to intervene, if we can't stop it ourselves with His help. Is your response really just to shrug helplessly? Would the Founding Fathers have shrugged helplessly? Would all of the men and women who helped them repel British subjugation?

We may be exhausting ourselves staying informed, but unless we're exhausting ourselves informing others, I'm not sure if we're taking this seriously enough. We have agency, and there are a lot of disenfranchised Trump voters right now who hugely outnumber the elites. The problem is, people are reluctant to stand up and be counted. They don't want to be alone, and many may even think that accepting defeat will let things "go back to normal." It won't. The old normal is gone forever.

What does that have to do with RPF's? There was once a time when people here understood and feared totalitarianism, and they had a fire in their belly to stop it. Judging by the responses in this thread, that time of situational awareness may have passed...but I'm here to remind people that we were not born to be passive spectators. We are among the few who might actually comprehend the horrors that America is about to face. That makes it our responsibility to get serious and help the disenfranchised Trump voters, our fellow Americans, understand exactly what will happen to them if they lay down and take this.

None of us can affect a recount or court battle or stop the Great Reset as silo'ed individuals, and we can't stop it if we act like it's someone else's problem. We can only do it as part of a massive movement, and every single person counts. That means we have to rally as many people into civic engagement as possible. I am asking you to roar, and to help others do the same. Will you whimper instead?

Americans must NOT be cowed into silent compliance, or our children and grandchildren will likely live in a hellish dystopia indefinitely. We must all find our voices now to shout "NO," not alone but together, and it is the moral duty of those who know the stakes to build energy and morale.

Reach out to everyone you know and trust and help them understand: We must not comply...not with accepting an illegitimate election, and not with accepting the Great Reset. They must understand well enough that they reach out to everyone they know, for the same purpose.

That is what I'm asking you all to do. Are we patriots, or is that too much to ask?

Regardless of how anyone personally feels about Trump, he is the most effective symbol and rallying point available right now, and our need to resist this takeover is dire. Resisting isn't about violence, or a shooting war, or crushing your enemies before you and hearing the lamentations of their women either. This is about rallying full awareness, courageous protest, and civil disobedience of whatever type necessary to avert that horror, because it may be the very last chance we ever get. We have to make them blink somehow.

Does that make more sense?

And yes, I struggle a lot with the "wrestle not against flesh and blood" thing. Navigating what we must pray for, and what we must do ourselves, is rarely easy. All I know is, the Founders won. Maybe we can too.

You're asking for non compliance? Ummmmm...ISN'T THAT WHAT THE AGORISTS AND THE ANCAPS HAVE BEEN ARGUING FOR ALL ALONG? [MENTION=5460]CCTelander[/MENTION] or [MENTION=9064]Ender[/MENTION] or any other agorist / ancap please tell me if I'm wrong. But....yeah.

Trump is pushing an authoritarian message. There are people on this forum right now demanding that we "stand up against AOC and the evil Marxists who want to defund the police." Hello? Earth to MAGA? Don't you know the police will be the ones confiscating your guns? [MENTION=3169]Anti Federalist[/MENTION] correct me if I'm wrong.

So....you want non-compliance? That's it? I don't have to put on a red MAGA hat or carry a confederate flag or go join a right wing militia and fight mosquitoes in the summer and cold in the winter in weekend "training?" I just have to non-comply? Yeah. I'm down with that. I've been down with that. I didn't need Trump for me to be down with that. I was down with non-compliance when non compliance wasn't cool and the average Republican thought the FBI were the good guys cause they took down that "evil philandering, plagiarizing Dr. Martin Luther King Jr." (Their words...not mine). Hell, once when I was still married my wife and I put the kids in the car and drove from Nashville to Denver because she had a conference to attend and they weren't going to let her fly without a pat down because she dared ask why she had to take off her shoes at the airport! We were both democrats then. She still is. The idea that only republicans are against what the government is doing is asinine. It's just that member of one party are more likely to resist when the other party is in power.

Seriously, maybe rather than trying to get ancaps and agorists to join you, maybe you should join them. Rather than "Join Or Die" the slogan should be "Join And Don't Comply." Of course some of us will continue this non compliance even if, by some miracle, Donald Trump ultimately wins the 2020 election. The dwarfs are for the dwarfs! (If you've never read C.S. Lewis The Last Battle[/b] in the Chronicles of Narnia series you have no idea what I'm talking about.)

Oh. and I'm not trying to sound preachy. I just finally looked up agorism a few weeks ago and I'm still learning about it. Some of y'all around here have been throwing around these funky words expecting the rest of us to just "get it" without explaining it! I feel deprived.
 
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Not gonna lie: A big part of the reason I made this thread was to give you some much-deserved backup. You've been talking sense for years.

I also think AF has the most healthy distrust of Trump than anybody on this forum. Unless RP himself secretly posts here.
 
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I'm all for it...there's just one part missing:

1 - Grey Man...Ghost

2 - ????

3 - People rise up in righteous anger and smash the system.

The Marxists beat us to it...they figured out Number 2.

2. Teach, prepare, get ready- it only takes about 3% to change the world & bring liberty.
 
You're asking for non compliance? Ummmmm...ISN'T THAT WHAT THE AGORISTS AND THE ANCAPS HAVE BEEN ARGUING FOR ALL ALONG? [MENTION=5460]CCTelander[/MENTION] or [MENTION=9064]Ender[/MENTION] or any other agorist / ancap please tell me if I'm wrong. But....yeah.

Trump is pushing an authoritarian message. There are people on this forum right now demanding that we "stand up against AOC and the evil Marxists who want to defund the police." Hello? Earth to MAGA? Don't you know the police will be the ones confiscating your guns? [MENTION=3169]Anti Federalist[/MENTION] correct me if I'm wrong.

So....you want non-compliance? That's it? I don't have to put on a red MAGA hat or carry a confederate flag or go join a right wing militia and fight mosquitoes in the summer and cold in the winter in weekend "training?" I just have to non-comply? Yeah. I'm down with that. I've been down with that. I didn't need Trump for me to be down with that. I was down with non-compliance when non compliance wasn't cool and the average Republican thought the FBI were the good guys cause they took down that "evil philandering, plagiarizing Dr. Martin Luther King Jr." (Their words...not mine). Hell, once when I was still married my wife and I put the kids in the car and drove from Nashville to Denver because she had a conference to attend and they weren't going to let her fly without a pat down because she dared ask why she had to take off her shoes at the airport! We were both democrats then. She still is. The idea that only republicans are against what the government is doing is asinine. It's just that member of one party are more likely to resist when the other party is in power.

Seriously, maybe rather than trying to get ancaps and agorists to join you, maybe you should join them. Rather than "Join Or Die" the slogan should be "Join And Don't Comply." Of course some of us will continue this non compliance even if, by some miracle, Donald Trump ultimately wins the 2020 election. The dwarfs are for the dwarfs! (If you've never read C.S. Lewis The Last Battle[/b] in the Chronicles of Narnia series you have no idea what I'm talking about.)

Oh. and I'm not trying to sound preachy. I just finally looked up agorism a few weeks ago and I'm still learning about it. Some of y'all around here have been throwing around these funky words expecting the rest of us to just "get it" without explaining it! I feel deprived.



You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to jmdrake again.
 
You're asking for non compliance? Ummmmm...ISN'T THAT WHAT THE AGORISTS AND THE ANCAPS HAVE BEEN ARGUING FOR ALL ALONG? @CCTelander or @Ender or any other agorist / ancap please tell me if I'm wrong. But....yeah.


They only want non compliance now that they think they won't be in power. They'll go right back to shouting "comply!" if and when they win.
 
They only want non compliance now that they think they won't be in power. They'll go right back to shouting "comply!" if and when they win.

I don't recall ever having heard Anti Federalist or Mini-Me shouting "comply!"
 
It concerns me when people like AOC says we have project that makes a list of all Trump voters/supporters, a list people can check if you apply for, anything for from renting a place to a job. They just declared war on 70 million Americans. If you voted for Trump and live in California and can't get a job or even an interview because of this, that's where we are headed. It's really bad and goes beyond the political divide of opinions it's effecting people lives way beyond the election cycle, and it's so wrong.
 
They only want non compliance now that they think they won't be in power. They'll go right back to shouting "comply!" if and when they win.

:rolleyes: Who is the "they" and what do you think they were shouting "comply" about? I'm betting you can't give a coherent answer to that question.

I don't recall ever having heard Anti Federalist or Mini-Me shouting "comply!"

^This
 
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