John Quincy Adams on foreign policy.

[CaveDog]

A nice, perhaps somewhat prophetic, example of the early vision for United States foreign policy by John Quincy Adams. Worth reading and remembering...

America, in the assembly of nations, since her admission among them, has invariably, though often fruitlessly, held forth to them the hand of honest friendship, of equal freedom, of generous reciprocity.

She has uniformly spoken among them, though often to heedless and often to disdainful ears, the language of equal liberty, of equal justice, and of equal rights.

She has, in the lapse of nearly half a century, without a single exception, respected the independence of other nations while asserting and maintaining her own.

She has abstained from interference in the concerns of others, even when conflict has been for principles to which she clings, as to the last vital drop that visits the heart.

She has seen that probably for centuries to come, all the contests of that Aceldama the European world, will be contests of inveterate power, and emerging right. Wherever the standard of freedom and Independence has been or shall be unfurled, there will her heart, her benedictions and her prayers be. But she goes not abroad, in search of monsters to destroy.

She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own.

She will commend the general cause by the countenance of her voice, and the benignant sympathy of her example.

She well knows that by once enlisting under other banners than her own, were they even the banners of foreign independence, she would involve herself beyond the power of extrication, in all the wars of interest and intrigue, of individual avarice, envy, and ambition, which assume the colors and usurp the standard of freedom. The fundamental maxims of her policy would insensibly change from liberty to force. The frontlet on her brows would no longer beam with the ineffable splendor of freedom and independence; but in its stead would soon be substituted an imperial diadem, flashing in false and tarnished lustre the murky radiance of dominion and power. She might become the dictatress of the world; she would be no longer the ruler of her own spirit. . . . Her glory is not dominion, but liberty. Her march is the march of the mind.

She has a spear and a shield: but the motto upon her shield is, Freedom, Independence, Peace. This has been her Declaration: this has been, as far as her necessary intercourse with the rest of mankind would permit, her practice.

-John Quincy Adams (Independence day address, 1821)

 

[Mystile]

Sometimes I wonder what some of the historic figures of this country would say to the current establishment if they were alive today. I'd like to see Dubya get his ass kicked by Jefferson!

 

[molly_pitcher]

She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own.

She will commend the general cause by the countenance of her voice, and the benignant sympathy of her example.

She well knows that by once enlisting under other banners than her own, were they even the banners of foreign independence, she would involve herself beyond the power of extrication, in all the wars of interest and intrigue, of individual avarice, envy, and ambition, which assume the colors and usurp the standard of freedom. The fundamental maxims of her policy would insensibly change from liberty to force. The frontlet on her brows would no longer beam with the ineffable splendor of freedom and independence; but in its stead would soon be substituted an imperial diadem, flashing in false and tarnished lustre the murky radiance of dominion and power. She might become the dictatress of the world; she would be no longer the ruler of her own spirit. . . . Her glory is not dominion, but liberty. Her march is the march of the mind.

She has a spear and a shield: but the motto upon her shield is, Freedom, Independence, Peace. This has been her Declaration: this has been, as far as her necessary intercourse with the rest of mankind would permit, her practice.

 

[sophocles07]

EVERY American should be required to read--and not get "history" from some half-assed teacher--the works (at least some of them) of Adams (John, John Quincy, Henry, Brooks), Jefferson, Madison, van Buren (at least some of his autobiography), and some Thomas Hart Benton (something properly selected out of his Thirty Years' View, and possibly other works (there are so many).

I find it incredibly pitiful/pathetic that a supposed 'free' society allows its children to grow up having never encountered first hand the works of these men. Of course, "it's there." But you have to dig around for it, or at least get an intensified interest in the subject. They usually pass over these extremely important topics (Jefferson, Adams, etc on foreign policy and CENTRAL BANKS) without emphasizing their necessary APPLICATION to current world situations.

 

[Aratus]

jqa

 

[New Governor Of Alaska]

A nice, perhaps somewhat prophetic, example of the early vision for United States foreign policy by John Quincy Adams. Worth reading and remembering...

America, in the assembly of nations, since her admission among them, has invariably, though often fruitlessly, held forth to them the hand of honest friendship, of equal freedom, of generous reciprocity.

She has uniformly spoken among them, though often to heedless and often to disdainful ears, the language of equal liberty, of equal justice, and of equal rights.

She has, in the lapse of nearly half a century, without a single exception, respected the independence of other nations while asserting and maintaining her own.

She has abstained from interference in the concerns of others, even when conflict has been for principles to which she clings, as to the last vital drop that visits the heart.

She has seen that probably for centuries to come, all the contests of that Aceldama the European world, will be contests of inveterate power, and emerging right. Wherever the standard of freedom and Independence has been or shall be unfurled, there will her heart, her benedictions and her prayers be. But she goes not abroad, in search of monsters to destroy.

She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own.

She will commend the general cause by the countenance of her voice, and the benignant sympathy of her example.

She well knows that by once enlisting under other banners than her own, were they even the banners of foreign independence, she would involve herself beyond the power of extrication, in all the wars of interest and intrigue, of individual avarice, envy, and ambition, which assume the colors and usurp the standard of freedom. The fundamental maxims of her policy would insensibly change from liberty to force. The frontlet on her brows would no longer beam with the ineffable splendor of freedom and independence; but in its stead would soon be substituted an imperial diadem, flashing in false and tarnished lustre the murky radiance of dominion and power. She might become the dictatress of the world; she would be no longer the ruler of her own spirit. . . . Her glory is not dominion, but liberty. Her march is the march of the mind.

She has a spear and a shield: but the motto upon her shield is, Freedom, Independence, Peace. This has been her Declaration: this has been, as far as her necessary intercourse with the rest of mankind would permit, her practice.

-John Quincy Adams (Independence day address, 1821)

When Russia nukes American cities, the very next thing the Russian president is going to do is shower the ruins with the flyers with this text and a message - AMERICANS, YOU GOT LOST. READ THIS AND TRY AGAIN.

 

[AmericaFyeah92]

When Russia nukes American cities, the very next thing the Russian president is going to do is shower the ruins with the flyers with this text and a message - AMERICANS, YOU GOT LOST. READ THIS AND TRY AGAIN.

who the hell are u? why do u keep posting idiotic predictions that Russia will nuke us?

do u think they would commit suicide like that?

 

[New Governor Of Alaska]

who the hell are u? why do u keep posting idiotic predictions that Russia will nuke us?

do u think they would commit suicide like that?

What's up with these emotions, AmericaFyeah92?
I think you need to read the news before expressing your opinion, and you don't have to be rude, by the way.....



NATO's doctrine:

Pre-emptive nuclear strike a key option, Nato told
Ian Traynor in Brussels The Guardian, Tuesday January 22 2008

The west must be ready to resort to a pre-emptive nuclear attack to try to halt the "imminent" spread of nuclear and other weapons of mass destruction, according to a radical manifesto for a new Nato by five of the west's most senior military officers and strategists.
Calling for root-and-branch reform of Nato and a new pact drawing the US, Nato and the European Union together in a "grand strategy" to tackle the challenges of an increasingly brutal world, the former armed forces chiefs from the US, Britain, Germany, France and the Netherlands insist that a "first strike" nuclear option remains an "indispensable instrument" since there is "simply no realistic prospect of a nuclear-free world".
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jan/22/nato.nuclear

Russia's response:

In Response to NATO Threat: Russian Armed Forces prepare for Nuclear Onslaught
by Andrei Kislyako
Global Research, February 1, 2008
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=7958


Russia prepares doctrine for pre-emptive nuclear strike
http://www.prophecynewswatch.com/Jan31/3142.html


Russia Issues Nuclear Attack Threat
Saturday January 19, 2008
Russia's military chief of staff says Moscow would use nuclear weapons in pre-emptive strike if it felt threatened.

General Yuri Baluyevsky said there were no plans "to attack anyone" but reasserted Russia's right to defend itself.
"To defend the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Russia and its allies, military forces will be used, including preventively, including with the use of nuclear weapons," Gen Baluyevsky said.
The remarks do not represent a change in policy for Moscow.
http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30200-1301432,00.html

 

[micahnelson]

When Russia nukes American cities, the very next thing the Russian president is going to do is shower the ruins with the flyers with this text and a message - AMERICANS, YOU GOT LOST. READ THIS AND TRY AGAIN.

And millions of Americans will be dead and Russia will be to rightly to blame for the murder of untold millions of innocents.

I'm wondering what your fascination is with fascists. I don't trust Russia, and it concerns me that you are looking to them as a way out of this.

 

[hypnagogue]

Russia misses the good old days when they used to scare us. I see nothing more than that in their threats.

But why on earth would Russia seek to lecture us on non-interventionism? I think perhaps you would be the one littering pamphlets informing the people of the United States that they lost their way. The Russians would be throwing a party and calling us fools for not doing it first.

 

[New Governor Of Alaska]

And millions of Americans will be dead and Russia will be to rightly to blame for the murder of untold millions of innocents.

I'm wondering what your fascination is with fascists. I don't trust Russia, and it concerns me that you are looking to them as a way out of this.

Micahnelson, to see the whole picture you need to read the articles I posted in my previous message and this thread as well: NATO Build-Up On Russia's Borders ---> http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=103674

 

[New Governor Of Alaska]

Russia misses the good old days when they used to scare us. I see nothing more than that in their threats.

But why on earth would Russia seek to lecture us on non-interventionism? I think perhaps you would be the one littering pamphlets informing the people of the United States that they lost their way. The Russians would be throwing a party and calling us fools for not doing it first.

Hypnagogue, please don't confuse USSR and Russia.

Russia threatens nobody. Russia is busy rebuilding economy and making money.....
I think this article will help you to understand today's Russia's policies:

Who Restarted the Cold War?

"Putin's Hostile Course," the lead editorial in The Washington Times of October18, began thus:

"Russian President Vladimir Putin's invitation to Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to visit Moscow is just the latest sign that, more than 16 years after the collapse of Soviet communism, Moscow is gravitating toward Cold War behavior. The old Soviet obsession—fighting American imperialism—remains undiluted. ...

"(A)t virtually every turn, Mr. Putin and the Russian leadership appear to be doing their best in ways large and small to marginalize and embarrass the United States and undercut U.S. foreign policy interests."

The Times pointed to Putin's snub of Robert Gates and Condi Rice by having them cool their heels for 40 minutes before a meeting. Then came a press briefing where Putin implied Russia may renounce the Reagan-Gorbachev INF treaty, which removed all U.S. and Soviet medium-range missiles from Europe, and threatened to pull out of the Conventional Forces in Europe Treaty, whereby Russia moved its tanks and troops far from the borders of Eastern Europe.

On and on the Times indictment went. Russia was blocking new sanctions on Iran. Russia was selling anti-aircraft missiles to Iran. Russia was selling weapons to Syria that found their way to Hezbollah and Hamas. Russia and Iran were talking up an OPEC-style natural gas cartel. All this, said the Times, calls to mind "Soviet-era behavior."

Missing from the prosecution's case, however, was the motive. Why has Putin's Russia turned hostile? Why is Putin mending fences with China, Iran and Syria? Why is Putin sending Bear bombers to the edge of American airspace? Why has Russia turned against America? For Putin's approval rating is three times that of George Bush. Who restarted the Cold War?

To answer that question, let us go back those 16 years.

What happened in 1991 and 1992?

Well, Russia let the Berlin Wall be torn down and its satellite states be voted or thrown out of power across Eastern Europe. Russia agreed to pull the Red Army all the way back inside its border. Russia agreed to let the Soviet Union dissolve into 15 nations. The Communist Party agreed to share power and let itself be voted out. Russia embraced freedom and American-style capitalism, and invited Americans in to show them how it was done.

Russia did not use its veto in the Security Council to block the U.S. war to drive Saddam Hussein, an ally, out of Kuwait. When 9-11 struck, Putin gave his blessing to U.S. troops using former republics as bases for the U.S. invasion.

What was Moscow's reward for its pro-America policy?

The United States began moving NATO into Eastern Europe and then into former Soviet republics. Six ex-Warsaw Pact nations are now NATO allies, as are three ex-republics of the Soviet Union. NATO expansionists have not given up on bringing Ukraine, united to Russia for centuries, or Georgia, Stalin's birthplace, into NATO.

In 1999, the United States bombed Serbia, which has long looked to Mother Russia for protection, for 78 days, though the Serbs' sole crime was to fight to hold their cradle province of Kosovo, as President Lincoln fought to hold onto the American South. Now America is supporting the severing of Kosovo from Serbia and creation of a new Islamic state in the Balkans, over Moscow's protest.

While Moscow removed its military bases from Cuba and all over the Third World, we have sought permanent military bases in Russia's backyard of Central Asia.

We dissolved the Nixon-Brezhnev ABM treaty and announced we would put a missile defense system in Poland and the Czech Republic.

Under presidents Clinton and Bush, the United States financed a pipeline for Caspian Sea oil to transit Azerbaijan and Georgia to the Black Sea and Turkey, cutting Russia out of the action.

With the end of the Cold War, the KGB was abolished and the Comintern disappeared. But the National Endowment for Democracy, Freedom House and other Cold War agencies, funded with tens of millions in tax-exempt and tax dollars, engineered the ouster of pro-Russian regimes in Serbia, Ukraine and Georgia, and sought the ouster of the regime in Minsk.

At the Cold War's end, the United States was given one of the great opportunities of history: to embrace Russia, largest nation on earth, as partner, friend, ally. Our mutual interests meshed almost perfectly. There was no ideological, territorial, historic or economic quarrel between us, once communist ideology was interred.

We blew it.

We moved NATO onto Russia's front porch, ignored her valid interests and concerns, and, with our "indispensable-nation" arrogance, treated her as a defeated power, as France treated Weimar Germany after Versailles.

Who restarted the Cold War? Bush and the braying hegemonists he brought with him to power. Great empires and tiny minds go ill together.

Source - http://www.vdare.com/asp/printPage.asp?url=http://vdare.com/buchanan/071018_cold_war.htm

 

[hypnagogue]

It's clear you have some message you're trying to promote. Indeed, this thread had next to nothing to do with Russia, and yet you interjected the topic. If you'll carefully consider what I said, brief as it was, you'll note that I offered no blame to either party. That is an entirely separate topic. Let me clarify my statement.

Russia misses the good old days when they used to scare us. I see nothing more than that in their threats.

This says nothing of their motivations. What it says is that they are attempting to frighten us as they once did. I don't think it could be argued that a reference to nuclear pre-emptive strikes is not a threat, or that threats are not an attempt to frighten. Russia is returning to their old tactics, in that sense. But I believe the world has changed since then. The concept of mutually assured destruction, I believe, is firmly enough established that any overt nuclear attack is simply not an option for any nation. I also believe that the American people have lived long enough with this knowledge that nuclear threats will not carry the same weight that they did during the Cold War.

I doubt anyone on these boards would suggest that the United States under the lead of Bush has not been an arrogant bastard to many, many other nations. However, I do not believe, and I do not believe their is reasonable cause to believe that the United States has at any point threatened Russia with force. You mention the missile shield. It is agreed upon by both Polish and American defense experts that the Missile Shield is not an offensive weapon. Neither do I believe that the Missile Shield project was undertaken with Russia in mind. In fact, the only effect such a missile shield would have upon Russian interests is that they would be less able to threaten Europe. It makes more sense to me that the Bush administration was concerned with Missiles from the middle east entering Europe, and they hastily withdrew from their Cold War obligations with Russia, without understanding how Russia would react. I blame blunderous ignorance, rather than intentional undermining.

Also mentioned is the gas pipeline bypassing Russia. This is simply business. Any individual seeking to maximize profits will invariably seek to cut out the middle men. Particularly middle men who may have agendas not in line with your own. Obviously this would upset Russia, but neither is it a threat of force.

Further, I believe that short article mischaracterizes the Russian "embrace" of American-style capitalism. They did not suddenly have a change of heart. Their system collapsed. There was no option to continue as they were doing. That's not to say that I believe we particularly defeated them. Rather that their system defeated itself. I have seen the statements of many Russian people who express nostalgia for the preeminence of the USSR, and even a disdain for many of the capitalist reforms which they have undergone. I believe this is the source of support from which Putin is drawing. You can see the evidence of it in the way Putin's regime has treated the press and dissident political groups. It seems obvious the authoritarian path that Russia has begun to follow.

These things combined; our insensitivity, arrogance, blunders, and their increased desire to be a dominant, monolithic power have created the heightened tensions between the United States and Russia.

But why on earth would Russia seek to lecture us on non-interventionism? I think perhaps you would be the one littering pamphlets informing the people of the United States that they lost their way. The Russians would be throwing a party and calling us fools for not doing it first.

Russia has a longer, bloodier history of imperialism than the United States by far. Only in sarcastic mockery could they presume to lecture us on peaceful, fair diplomacy. But as I said, I can't imagine why they'd even want to.

 

[AmericaFyeah92]

let's end the russia discussion, its stupid.

 

[rpfreedom08]

And millions of Americans will be dead and Russia will be to rightly to blame for the murder of untold millions of innocents.

I'm wondering what your fascination is with fascists. I don't trust Russia, and it concerns me that you are looking to them as a way out of this.

One thing is for sure. They are going to need a major event to get america unified again. I'm not looking forward to what they have planned, each time it gets worse and worse.

 

[AmericaFyeah92]

One thing is for sure. They are going to need a major event to get america unified again. I'm not looking forward to what they have planned, each time it gets worse and worse.

another conspiracy wackjob.

 

[haigh]

I suspect at military budget time the Russian generals get together with the American generals to coordinate saber rattling press releases, so they can lead taxpayers in both countries to their financial slaughter.
It's all a hoax to screw the taxpayers.
Hey Gov, you on their payroll?

 

[AmericaFyeah92]

I suspect at military budget time the Russian generals get together with the American generals to coordinate saber rattling press releases, so they can lead taxpayers in both countries to their financial slaughter.
It's all a hoax to screw the taxpayers.
Hey Gov, you on their payroll?

now that seems plausible