Joe Legal vs. Jose Illegal

[powerofreason]

Well, I'm not for restricting immigration. So I could be part of it. But if so I'm not aware of it. I just don't see how xenophobia could be turning people away from a non-xenophobic movement like this so-called liberty movement.

If you SAY you're part of the liberty movement and also give a diatribe on "illegal immigration" then you might make people think the rest of the movement is like that too.

 

[LibertyEagle]

The real hardcore of the movement is not xenophobic. Or if they are, they lie about it/hide it. Because no one can tell what a person is thinking of course.

lol

Hardcore? Please define, "hardcore"?

And this persistent attempt of yours to play the racist card if someone does not agree with the illegal alien invasion of our country, is getting quite irritating.

 

[LibertyEagle]

If you SAY you're part of the liberty movement and also give a diatribe on "illegal immigration" then you might make people think the rest of the movement is like that too.

Is that kind of like when some bash the Constitution, our Founding Fathers, and want all government dissolved?

 

[erowe1]

If you SAY you're part of the liberty movement and also give a diatribe on "illegal immigration" then you might make people think the rest of the movement is like that too.

OK. I don't think very many people claim to be part of "the liberty movement." I've never encountered anyone who said they were, even though I spend a lot of time with people who throw the phrase around rather freely. So I'd say it's not much of a problem.

 

[Deborah K]

All people ought to be able to go wherever they want provided they are not trespassing on private property. Public property doesn't count because it is technically unowned, while simultaneously being in the possession of criminal organizations. Possession doesn't equal ownership of course. If I take your car I don't own it I just possess it. And if I sell it I don't then own the proceeds. That wouldn't make any sense.

This land belongs to a rancher in AZ.

 

[powerofreason]

By your own definition, you should be against the illegal alien invasion of our country, since most trespass on others' private property to get here.

I'm opposed to that. So you do have a point there, but I really don't know how common that is and you probably don't either. Most of the land by the border is government owned I would assume. (So the government can control who comes and goes easier.)

Bullshit. Public property was paid for and is owned by the people.

Hah! Public property is government property. There's also such a thing as communally owned property, thats not what public property is.

But here's how you know the government owns "public" property. They get to decide how it is used and give out licenses for the privilege of using it sometimes.

Edit: Excuse me, the government possesses public property, they don't own it.

 

[powerofreason]

This land belongs to a rancher in AZ.

Damn I feel bad for him. He should set up a guard tower and shoot them as they go by. If its legal in Arizona to shoot trespassers like I know it is elsewhere. (I wouldn't want him to get in trouble with the govt goons.)

 

[LibertyEagle]

I'm opposed to that. So you do have a point there, but I really don't know how common that is and you probably don't either. Most of the land by the border is government owned I would assume. (So the government can control who comes and goes easier.)

Seeing how I live in Texas, I probably know one hell of a lot more about it than you do, in Connecticut.

 

[Deborah K]

There was a time when that wasn't true. If they make it really hard to come in, then yea they probably are.

They don't make it hard by choice, it's hard because of bureaucracy and gov't ineptness. The gov't WANTS the illegals here, hence the amnesty bill. And anyone who sees the economic problem illegal immigration is causing, gets attacked on the race aspect of it instead of being able to have an intellectually honest debate about it.

And you are kidding yourself if you think racism doesn't occur in the latino community:

YouTube - The True Face of Hate

 

[powerofreason]

Well maybe shooting them is too harsh. That can't be justified unless the trespassers are armed. I'd fire warning shots and shoot them with paintballs. As funny as that sounds.

 

[powerofreason]

I never said only white Ron Paul supporters are racist. Now you're getting into heavy strawman territory.

 

[coyote_sprit]

I never said only white Ron Paul supporters are racist. Now you're getting into heavy strawman territory.

LMAO... Yeah and the calling us racist and xenophobes wasn't strawman.

 

[powerofreason]

I think an important point to make is that the "illegals" (damn that word reminds of "gooks") would come here if not for the free medical care. Mexico isn't exactly the best place to raise a family. It will get a lot better if the government surrenders to the drug dealers though, and focuses on real crime, like kidnappings.

 

[powerofreason]

LMAO... Yeah and the calling us racist and xenophobes wasn't strawman.

I suspect some Ron Paul supporters who oppose illegal immigration do so out of racist and/or xenophobic thinking. America has a very long and sad history of xenophobia and of course racism. Its not like I'm pulling these ideas out of my ass here.

 

[MRoCkEd]

Isn't saying "open immigration is ideal in a free society, but not for now because other people are forced to pay for welfare" kind of like saying "drug decriminalization is ideal in a free society, but not for now because other people are forced to pay for healthcare"?

 

[powerofreason]

lol

Hardcore? Please define, "hardcore"?

And this persistent attempt of yours to play the racist card if someone does not agree with the illegal alien invasion of our country, is getting quite irritating.

Principled, radical. Like the Lew Rockwell crowd, Mises Institute people and supporters.

That is troubling that you would use the term "invasion." You're referring to mostly kind, hard working people, who have come here with nothing and expect only an opportunity to work hard for a better life. Yes, there are some socialist loudmouths.

 

[coyote_sprit]

Isn't saying "open immigration is ideal in a free society, but not for now because of all the welfare benefits" kind of like saying "drug decriminalization is ideal in a free society, but not for now because other people are forced to pay for healthcare"?

How are healthcare and drugs related?

 

[LibertyEagle]

Principled, radical. Like the Lew Rockwell crowd, Mises Institute.

Principled = radical? lol.

And last time I checked, not nearly everyone associated with Mises was an anarchist.

That is troubling that you would use the term "invasion." You're referring to mostly kind, hard working people, who have come here with nothing and expect only an opportunity to work hard for a better life. Yes, there are some socialist loudmouths.

I feel for them, but if we let our own country fall out of some misplaced belief that we need to take care of the world, it's not going to do anyone any good, besides the elitist assholes who are pushing this illegal immigration as one of many ploys to take down our country.

 

[MRoCkEd]

How are healthcare and drugs related?

We don't want to pay for more of other people's welfare, so we forbid immigration.
We don't want to pay for more of other people's healthcare, so we forbid behavior that results in unhealthier lives.

 

[coyote_sprit]

We don't want to pay for more of other people's welfare, so we forbid immigration.
We don't want to pay for more of other people's healthcare, so we forbid behavior that results in unhealthier lives.

Drugs are one of the least of your concerns when it comes to healthcare. Illegal immigration on the other hand accounts for about 30 million(In a country with 300mil legal citizens) people of which the majority are on welfare.