Joe Legal vs. Jose Illegal

[qwerty]

Joe Legal vs. Jose Illegal

Here is an example of why hiring illegal aliens is not economically productive for the State of California ...

You have 2 families..."Joe Legal" and "Jose Illegal". Both families have 2 parents, 2 children and live in California .

"Joe Legal" works in construction, has a Social Security Number, and makes $25.00 per hour with payroll taxes deducted...."Jose Illegal" also works in construction, has "NO" Social Security Number, and gets paid $15.00 cash "under the table".

Joe Legal...$25.00 per hour x 40 hours $1000.00 per week, $52,000 per year Now take 30% away for state and federal tax. Joe Legal now has $31,231.00

Jose Illegal...$15.00 per hour x 40 hours $600.00 per week, $31,200.00 per year. Jose Illegal pays no taxes... Jose Illegal now has $31,200.00

Joe Legal pays Medical and Dental Insurance with limited coverage $1000.00 per month $12,000.00 per year Joe Legal now has $19,231.00

Jose Illegal has full Medical and Dental coverage through the state and local clinics at a cost of $0.00 per year Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00

Joe Legal makes too much money and is not eligible for Food Stamps or welfare Joe Legal pays for food $1,000.00 per month $12,000.00 per year Joe Legal now has $ 7,231.00

Jose Illegal has no documented income and is eligible for Food Stamps and Welfare. Jose Illegal still has $31,200..00 Joe Legal pays rent of $1,000..00 per month $12,000.00 per year Joe Legal is now in the hole minus (-) $4,769.00

Jose Illegal receives a $500 per month Federal rent subsidy Jose Illegal pays rent $500.00 per month $6,000.00 per year. Jose Illegal still has $25,200.00

Joe Legal now works overtime on Saturdays or gets a part time job after work to break even.

Jose Illegal has nights and weekends off to enjoy with his family.

Joe Legal's and Jose Illegal's children both attend the same school. Joe Legal pays for his children's lunches while Jose Illegal's children get a government sponsored lunch. Jose Illegal's children have an after school ESL program. Joe Legal's children go home.

Joe Legal and Jose Illegal both enjoy the same Police and Fire Services. Joe paid for them and Jose did not pay.

Why would you support any politician that supports illegal aliens?

And you wonder why this State is in the dumper? Its PAST time to take a stand for America and Americans and vote these people out regardless of their party affiliation!

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2302270/posts

 

[Kludge]

So this article is in favor of amnesty?

 

[nayjevin]

So take away subsidies, welfare, and taxes. Problem solved. Might as well axe Social Security numbers at the same time.

 

[Objectivist]

SSI is 15.3% of Joe's pay and if I didn't have to compete with guys that hire Jose, I'd pay Joe $10 more per hour and offer him health insurance 100%.

 

[paulitics]

The big problem is that the honest small businessman who hires legal workers has to pay government mandated payroll, and employment taxes into the system (about 15%) It is quite a burden, and leaves this business at a disadvantage, perhaps causing this honest business to close its doors.

There are also business run by illegal aliens, (many are Asian) who avoid having to pay taxes like sales tax, payroll tax, etc. They can lower their prices by 30% and still profit as much as the honest businessman.

The welfare state will not end anytime soon, so the most practical way to end this, is to simply audit the businesses who break the law. The fear of having to pay hefty fines or jailtime will quicly keep the cheaters in line.

 

[qwerty]

So this article is in favor of amnesty?

I don´t think so

 

[erowe1]

Thanks for this article illustrating why it's important to get rid of social security, welfare programs, and the income tax.

 

[Deborah K]

Good OP. But the article forgets to mention that Jose and other illegals send money back to Mexico to the tune of 29-32 billion dollars a year - providing Mexico its second largest source of income. Money, I might add, that isn't spent back into the American economy.

 

[Blueskies]

If you make Jose a citizen then the problem is solved...

 

[erowe1]

Good OP. But the article forgets to mention that Jose and other illegals send money back to Mexico to the tune of 29-32 billion dollars a year - providing Mexico its second largest source of income. Money, I might add, that isn't spent back into the American economy.

Well, if you are against the inflation tax levied on us by the Federal Reserve, then you should see that as a good thing. If Mexican immigrants (illegal or not) are sending American dollars to Mexico and those dollars are not making their way back here, then they are reducing our money supply and increasing the value of the rest of our dollars that are being spent here.

 

[Deborah K]

If you make Jose a citizen then the problem is solved...

It is true that the INS is a mess and needs to be streamlined so that people can become citizens and/or come and go freely to work here.

 

[Deborah K]

Well, if you are against the inflation tax levied on us by the Federal Reserve, then you should see that as a good thing. If Mexican immigrants (illegal or not) are sending American dollars to Mexico and those dollars are not making their way back here, then they are reducing our money supply and increasing the value of the rest of our dollars that are being spent here.

I'm no economist but I don't see how that changes anything. The Fed is like a counterfeiting office. Money not in circulation just means they will print more.

 

[erowe1]

I'm no economist but I don't see how that changes anything. The Fed is like a counterfeiting office. Money not in circulation just means they will print more.

So, then in that case, the Mexican immigrants sending money to Mexico that doesn't get back here will have no effect, since the Fed will just make up for it by printing more. Either way, it doesn't hurt us any. It either mitigates what the Fed does, or the Fed makes up for it so that it has a net zero effect.

 

[Deborah K]

So, then in that case, the Mexican immigrants sending money to Mexico that doesn't get back here will have no effect, since the Fed will just make up for it by printing more. Either way, it doesn't hurt us any. It either mitigates what the Fed does, or the Fed makes up for it so that it has a net zero effect.

Two wrongs make a right? Either way, it hurts us terribly. When it is sent back to Mexico, it is not spent into our economy even though it is earned here. If the Fed makes up for it by printing more money, the value of our money depreciates.

 

[erowe1]

Two wrongs make a right? Either way, it hurts us terribly. When it is sent back to Mexico, it is not spent into our economy even though it is earned here. If the Fed makes up for it by printing more money, the value of our money depreciates.

Now I'm not sure of your position. Two wrongs don't make a right. But I'm talking about the affect it has on our economy. If it is the case that Mexican immigrants (illegal or not) remove American Federal Reserve Notes from circulation in our country by sending them to Mexico never to return here, then that action on their part does not hurt us. It merely increases the value of every Federal Reserve Note still in circulation here. The amount of capital in existence in America doesn't decrease--in fact it goes up, thanks to the contributions in capital made by the labor of those immigrants--the only thing that does decrease is the amount of American currency to be used here to spend on that capital. We do not become the slightest bit poorer as a result. It does not hurt us terribly, as you say, in fact if anything it helps us.

Now, if this action on the part of these immigrants (illegal or not) prompts the Federal Reserve to make up for the loss in currency being spent in America by printing more, then the net effect is zero. No, two wrongs don't make a right. But on the question of whether the removal of Federal Reserve Notes from circulating here hurts us, it clearly does not (unless you are of the same mindset as the Fed itself, which thinks we need the extra dollars here to prime the economic pump--I, like Ron Paul, am not.).

 

[Deborah K]

Now I'm not sure of your position. Two wrongs don't make a right. But I'm talking about the affect it has on our economy. If it is the case that Mexican immigrants (illegal or not) remove American Federal Reserve Notes from circulation in our country by sending them to Mexico never to return here, then that action on their part does not hurt us. It merely increases the value of every Federal Reserve Note still in circulation here. The amount of capital in existence in America doesn't decrease--in fact it goes up, thanks to the contributions in capital made by the labor of those immigrants--the only thing that does decrease is the amount of American currency to be used here to spend on that capital. We do not become the slightest bit poorer as a result. It does not hurt us terribly, as you say, in fact if anything it helps us.

Now, if this action on the part of these immigrants (illegal or not) prompts the Federal Reserve to make up for the loss in currency being spent in America by printing more, then the net effect is zero. No, two wrongs don't make a right. But on the question of whether the removal of Federal Reserve Notes from circulating here hurts us, it clearly does not (unless you are of the same mindset as the Fed itself, which thinks we need the extra dollars here to prime the economic pump--I, like Ron Paul, am not.).

Do you feel like a dog chasing your tail? We're going in circles. We don't view it the same way.

 

[Krugerrand]

Now I'm not sure of your position. Two wrongs don't make a right. But I'm talking about the affect it has on our economy. If it is the case that Mexican immigrants (illegal or not) remove American Federal Reserve Notes from circulation in our country by sending them to Mexico never to return here, then that action on their part does not hurt us. It merely increases the value of every Federal Reserve Note still in circulation here. The amount of capital in existence in America doesn't decrease--in fact it goes up, thanks to the contributions in capital made by the labor of those immigrants--the only thing that does decrease is the amount of American currency to be used here to spend on that capital. We do not become the slightest bit poorer as a result. It does not hurt us terribly, as you say, in fact if anything it helps us.

Now, if this action on the part of these immigrants (illegal or not) prompts the Federal Reserve to make up for the loss in currency being spent in America by printing more, then the net effect is zero. No, two wrongs don't make a right. But on the question of whether the removal of Federal Reserve Notes from circulating here hurts us, it clearly does not (unless you are of the same mindset as the Fed itself, which thinks we need the extra dollars here to prime the economic pump--I, like Ron Paul, am not.).

Not to rain on the parade you two are having ... but all US Dollars come back to the US eventually (with few exceptions). Sovereign Trust Funds are a large scale way it happens.

 

[erowe1]

Do you feel like a dog chasing your tail? We're going in circles. We don't view it the same way.

That's true.

You view it the way Ben Bernanke does--the more pieces of paper with dollar signs we have in the US, the better our economy. I view it the way Ron Paul does, which is that the health of the economy is a function of capital, not pieces of paper with dollar signs on them.

Correct me if any part of that is inaccurate.

 

[Deborah K]

That's true.

You view it the way Ben Bernanke does--the more pieces of paper with dollar signs we have in the US, the better our economy. I view it the way Ron Paul does, which is that the health of the economy is a function of capital, not pieces of paper with dollar signs on them.

Correct me if any part of that is inaccurate.

I think you barking up the wrong tree.

 

[__27__]

Not to rain on the parade you two are having ... but all US Dollars come back to the US eventually (with few exceptions). Sovereign Trust Funds are a large scale way it happens.

No, Deborah has clearly explained to us all over and over that those dollars that leave are never seen again. Apparently the brown people like little paintings with green ink, perhaps it's a hobby to collect them.