Jihad and Islamic Law

[RuyDiaz]

Hi Ron Paul supporters.

Dr. Paul appears to believe that the United States is primarily, or even solely responsible for the war Islamic Jihadis wage on us. I'm curious to know what his supporters know about the teachings of Islamic Law on holy war, Peace (particularly peace treaties), equality under the law, how Islam sees the world, etc.

Best regards;

 

[0zzy]

Hi Ron Paul supporters.

Dr. Paul appears to believe that the United States is primarily, or even solely responsible for the war Islamic Jihadis wage on us. I'm curious to know what his supporters know about the teachings of Islamic Law on holy war, Peace (particularly peace treaties), equality under the law, how Islam sees the world, etc.

Best regards;

Ron Paul is referring to what the CIA call "blowback", and to what Osama Bin Laden states, and to what the 9/11 Commission Report states.

Why is it that recruiting for Al Qaeda went from 100s to 1000s after entering Iraq? Did more people learn about America's "freedoms"? No.

Reasons why they say they hate us:

1) Propping up dictators in Muslim countries.
A) Overthrowing a democratic government in 1953 Iran to put in a dictator which resulted in the 1973 Iranian Revolution.
B) Propping up the dictators in Saudi Arabia and having bases there
C) Training and giving money to Saddam Hussein during the 80s (as well as Osama Bin Laden)

2) Support of Israel to what they perceive as occupation of holy land
Yet Arab countries get 3x more aid than Israel, so it doesn't do anything but hurt them and us.

3) The causalities in Muslim countries due to wars
A) Iraq, 1million+ since our invasion in the 90s
B) Somalia
C) Giving Saddam the gas to kill those people in Kuwait (we gave it to him before he was our enemy)

etc. etc.

Even Osama said it when he stated "Why don't you think we invade Switzerland?"

 

[RuyDiaz]

Ron Paul is referring to what the CIA call "blowback", and to what Osama Bin Laden states, and to what the 9/11 Commission Report states.

Why is it that recruiting for Al Qaeda went from 100s to 1000s after entering Iraq? Did more people learn about America's "freedoms"? No.

Reasons why they say they hate us:

1) Propping up dictators in Muslim countries.
A) Overthrowing a democratic government in 1953 Iran to put in a dictator which resulted in the 1973 Iranian Revolution.
B) Propping up the dictators in Saudi Arabia and having bases there
C) Training and giving money to Saddam Hussein during the 80s (as well as Osama Bin Laden)

2) Support of Israel to what they perceive as occupation of holy land
Yet Arab countries get 3x more aid than Israel, so it doesn't do anything but hurt them and us.

3) The causalities in Muslim countries due to wars
A) Iraq, 1million+ since our invasion in the 90s
B) Somalia
C) Giving Saddam the gas to kill those people in Kuwait (we gave it to him before he was our enemy)

etc. etc.

Even Osama said it when he stated "Why don't you think we invade Switzerland?"

Hi Ozzy;

I can't help but noticed you haven't answered my question. You've given me the party line instead. Let me state the question more clearly:

What does Islamic Law says about:

a) The viability of Peace treaties.

b) The division of the world. (Specifically, which terms are used to call Islam-controlled land, and those not controlled by Islam.)

c) Equality under the law.

d) The possibility of Peace itself.

 

[0zzy]

Hi Ozzy;

I can't help but noticed you haven't answered my question. You've given me the party line instead. Let me state the question more clearly:

What does Islamic Law says about:

a) The viability of Peace treaties.

b) The division of the world. (Specifically, which terms are used to call Islam-controlled land, and those not controlled by Islam.)

c) Equality under the law.

d) The possibility of Peace itself.

I don't know, maybe you should answer that you seem to know.

 

[Cinci4RP]

Hi Ozzy;

I can't help but noticed you haven't answered my question. You've given me the party line instead. Let me state the question more clearly:

What does Islamic Law says about:

a) The viability of Peace treaties.

b) The division of the world. (Specifically, which terms are used to call Islam-controlled land, and those not controlled by Islam.)

c) Equality under the law.

d) The possibility of Peace itself.

Why don't you read the Qa'ran yourself instead of trolling.


Answer: The interpretation varies widely by sect, just like how Christian demoninations hold widely different views.

While I profess to be a Christian, I also think the war against "Islanofascism" is tantamount to a Crusade, a word the W had used himself. Jihad if you will.

Is "Islamofascism" about a religius war, yes, to some extent, but our presence on their soil has unquestionably exacerbated the situation.

If the USA had secured borders and respected the 2nd amendment, had more attention to visas and actually listened to intelligence reports, 9/11 would not have happened.

Everything comes down to Israel and the war since Isaac and Jacob, and us being there is just making American easier targets.

Moral of this rant, this "War on Islamofascism" is unwinnable, and this Nation will lose when it cannot afford it anymore, just like the CCCP and Byzantium and Rome.

 

[Liberty Star]

Ron Paul is right, we should believe what they tell us. Rudy and Romney were high on Jihad in debate last night. Rudy knows better and was just pandering to Israel lobby in debate last night, Romney is genuinely ignorant and trying to outdo Rudy's deceptive fear mongering, he can't even pronounce correctly terms he was citing after being coached by his briefers.

UK's Guardian newspaper had published OBL's letter in 2002, he starts with Palestine , Iraq . I recall an analysis on it back then, he mentioned the word Palestine/Palestinian more than Iraq, he used it 16 times while explaining his cause in that published letter. Israel's occupation of arabs and our military support of Israeli policies in territories seems like the bigger issue for Arabs even than Iraq issue.

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/worldview/story/0,,845725,00.html

(Q1) Why are we fighting and opposing you?


As for the first question: Why are we fighting and opposing you? The answer is very simple:

(1) Because you attacked us and continue to attack us.

a) You attacked us in Palestine:

(i) Palestine, which has sunk under military occupation for more than 80 years. The British handed over Palestine, with your help and your support, to the Jews, who have occupied it for more than 50 years; years overflowing with oppression, tyranny, crimes, killing, expulsion, destruction and devastation. The creation and continuation of Israel is one of the greatest crimes, and you are the leaders of its criminals. And of course there is no need to explain and prove the degree of American support for Israel. The creation of Israel is a crime which must be erased. Each and every person whose hands have become polluted in the contribution towards this crime must pay its*price, and pay for it heavily.

(ii) It brings us both laughter and tears to see that you have not yet tired of repeating your fabricated lies that the Jews have a historical right to Palestine, as it was promised to them in the Torah. Anyone who disputes with them on this alleged fact is accused of anti-semitism. This is one of the most fallacious, widely-circulated fabrications in history. The people of Palestine are pure Arabs and original Semites. It is the Muslims who are the inheritors of Moses (peace be upon him) and the inheritors of the real Torah that has not been changed. Muslims believe in all of the Prophets, including Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad, peace and blessings of Allah be upon them all. If the followers of Moses have been promised a right to Palestine in the Torah, then the Muslims are the most worthy nation of this.

When the Muslims conquered Palestine and drove out the Romans, Palestine and Jerusalem returned to Islaam, the religion of all the Prophets peace be upon them. Therefore, the call to a historical right to Palestine cannot be raised against the Islamic Ummah that believes in all the Prophets of Allah (peace and blessings be upon them) - and we make no distinction between them.

(iii) The blood pouring out of Palestine must be equally revenged. You must know that the Palestinians do not cry alone; their women are not widowed alone; their sons are not orphaned alone.

(b) You attacked us in Somalia; you supported the Russian atrocities against us in Chechnya, the Indian oppression against us in Kashmir, and the Jewish aggression against us in Lebanon.

US/Saudis/Pakistanis were the main sponsors of that Afghan Jiahd, Osama and his foreign arab fighters there were fighting alongside US sponsored Afghan Mujahideens against Russians. Talibans are next sour gen of same Afghan Mujhideens ( Jihadis ) we funded/armed back then to help them fight against Russian occupation. What is going on now in Iraq is so ironic, we are supporting SCIRI/Dawa Islamist parties with Iranian ties against secular arab nationalists, Baathist types.


Going by debate last night, Rudy did not read books that were assigned to him apparently. He's still consulting with Israeli lobby propaganda for his debate notes and his campaign staff is top loaded with war monger neocons, no wonder he's soliciting campaign donations through Israeli newspaper readers.

http://rudysreadinglist.com/

 

[Sally]

Moral of this rant, this "War on Islamofascism" is unwinnable, and this Nation will lose when it cannot afford it anymore, just like the CCCP and Byzantium and Rome.

So, what do you think America should do? The war is already in full swing, you cannot undeclare it now. It is far too late for that, you can only either win or lose.

And you can be sure that the jihadis and Islamofascists are working for the victory of the candidate most likely to secure America's defeat. So, which candidate do you think that is?

How do you think Ron Paul's foreign policy will acheive victory for your country?

 

[RuyDiaz]

Why don't you read the Qa'ran yourself instead of trolling.

The 'T' word already? Is anybody who disagrees a troll?

Answer: The interpretation varies widely by sect, just like how Christian demoninations hold widely different views.

The answer is misleading, if not outright wrong. The relevant points are supported by the four school of Islamic jurisprudence; the schools (not "sects") followed by most Muslims, at least nominally.

While I profess to be a Christian, I also think the war against "Islanofascism" is tantamount to a Crusade, a word the W had used himself. Jihad if you will.

This is an anti-W smear. He used the word in the modern sense of "moral, worthy endeavour", while the Jihadis, well, they use the term in the sense it has always been used.

The rest of your answer does not concern me now; you are jumping the gun way ahead.

 

[forsmant]

So, what do you think America should do? The war is already in full swing, you cannot undeclare it now. It is far too late for that, you can only either win or lose.

And you can be sure that the jihadis and Islamofascists are working for the victory of the candidate most likely to secure America's defeat. So, which candidate do you think that is?

How do you think Ron Paul's foreign policy will acheive victory for your country?

A military defeat or the collapse of the dollar and the fall of the American Empire?

 

[Liberty Star]

RuyDiaz, you may find this pretty educational and this may also help answer question you posed:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldgbOxDX6DE



What I suspect is that current mess in mid east and hatreds there have more to do with racism and bigotry on both sides than any God mandated supremacy as this banned video shows:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tW1-_JmXQt0&mode=related&search=

 

[Sally]

A military defeat or the collapse of the dollar and the fall of the American Empire?

America does not have an Empire. She has hegemony as a hyperpower, but no Imperialistic characteristics.

As to the collapse of the dollar, that is up to the financial markets, and frankly I don't give a damn.

So what about military defeat for your country? How do you think Ron Paul's policies would influence victory or defeat for the US military?

 

[RuyDiaz]

I don't know, maybe you should answer that you seem to know.

Very well. Here is how it goes:

a) The viability of Peace treaties.

Under Islamic Law, peace treaties are impossible. All that is allowed are ten-year truces "hudna", that can be renewed at the Caliph's discretion. The Islamic leader can cancel a hudna at will, and he's morally justified to do so. This follows from the example of Muhammad, who waged war against his Meccan tribesmen two years after signing the treaty of Hudaybiyyah.

b) The division of the world. (Specifically, which terms are used to call Islam-controlled land, and those not controlled by Islam.)

The terms are Dar ul-Harb (The abode of war) and Dar ul-Islam (The abode of Islam.) The abode of Islam is permanently at war with, well, the abode of war. This is religiously mandated perpetual war.

c) Equality under the law.

Islamic law mandates permanent diminished status for the so-called protected peoples (dhimmis). Religious discrimination is not just acceptable, but part of the divine plan.

d) The possibility of Peace itself.

Peace is possible under Islam. That is, when Islam triumphs, and the whole world submits to Islam, there will be peace. There will be divine intervention--Issa (the Muslim version of Jesus) will come back to earth to lead the real believers to final victory. In the meantime, it is the responsibility of Muslims to wage war against the unbelievers.

 

[Melissa]

America does not have an Empire. She has hegemony as a hyperpower, but no Imperialistic characteristics.

As to the collapse of the dollar, that is up to the financial markets, and frankly I don't give a damn.

So what about military defeat for your country? How do you think Ron Paul's policies would influence victory or defeat for the US military?

why dont you tell us how do you actually win this war.

 

[RuyDiaz]

RuyDiaz, you may find this pretty educational and this may also help answer question you posed:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldgbOxDX6DE

Hi Liberty Star;

I stopped when I saw it was about the Mossadeq coup, sorry. I've heard that before. (No disrespect.) The issue here is not primarily one of blowback--although you may want to read an essay on the topic by Lee Harris--but of the internal motivations of many Muslims to wage war on us. You are simply assuming that Muslims are silly putty in our hands; that if we do what they want, they'll leave us alone. That simply is not the case.

 

[Sally]

why dont you tell us how do you actually win this war.

Because I am not running for POTUS. I want to know how Ron Paul's policies will affect this war, if it is not too much trouble.

Thank you.

 

[WilliamC]

Hi Ron Paul supporters.

Dr. Paul appears to believe that the United States is primarily, or even solely responsible for the war Islamic Jihadis wage on us.

err, no. The radical Islamic terrorists are primarily, even solely, responsible for their own actions. All individuals are responsible for their own actions.

However, the fact that our foreign policy supports dictators in Middle Eastern countries, invades and occupies Iraq, and generally acts like it should rule the world certainly gives them much incentive to directly attack the USA. It also helps the truly radical extremists recruit more moderate Muslims to their cause.

Methinks if the USA were to stop trying to impose it's will on Islamic countries they would go back to killing each other as they've done for hundreds of years.

I'm curious to know what his supporters know about the teachings of Islamic Law on holy war, Peace (particularly peace treaties), equality under the law, how Islam sees the world, etc.
Best regards;

I can only speak for myself but I could really care less about the teachings of Islamic Law, it has nothing to do with what goes on in the USA. As for the religion of Islam, well, there are many Muslims in the USA and they are welcome to peacefully practice their religion as they see fit. As for jihad so long as they don't attack the USA they can kill each other all they want. Bring it over here in a way that can be linked to a country of origin and I'd vote to bomb them into non-existence. If it can't be linked to a country of origin well we should persue the perpetrators and their leaders anywhere they try to hide until they are caught or killed.

 

[forsmant]

If the dollar collapses the United States would not be able to finance its wars or the military occupation of 130 countries.

The fact that you do not care if your money can buy anything shows your ignorance of the political and economic structure of the US.

 

[Melissa]

Because I am not running for POTUS. I want to know how Ron Paul's policies will affect this war, if it is not too much trouble.

Thank you.

it will allow us to come home and I am a meetup organizer and some young men from my town that are in Iraq contacted me and they are the ones that told me that it is time to come home-- Ron Paul's policy will affect this war by stopping it.

 

[Melissa]

err, no. The radical Islamic terrorists are primarily, even solely, responsible for their own actions. All individuals are responsible for their own actions.

However, the fact that our foreign policy supports dictators in Middle Eastern countries, invades and occupies Iraq, and generally acts like it should rule the world certainly gives them much incentive to directly attack the USA. It also helps the truly radical extremists recruit more moderate Muslims to their cause.

Methinks if the USA were to stop trying to impose it's will on Islamic countries they would go back to killing each other as they've done for hundreds of years.



I can only speak for myself but I could really care less about the teachings of Islamic Law, it has nothing to do with what goes on in the USA. As for the religion of Islam, well, there are many Muslims in the USA and they are welcome to peacefully practice their religion as they see fit. As for jihad so long as they don't attack the USA they can kill each other all they want. Bring it over here in a way that can be linked to a country of origin and I'd vote to bomb them into non-existence. If it can't be linked to a country of origin well we should persue the perpetrators and their leaders anywhere they try to hide until they are caught or killed.

+ Billion

 

[GoneResistance]

America does not have an Empire. She has hegemony as a hyperpower, but no Imperialistic characteristics.

Are you insane? America does not have an empire? What would you call a nation that has over 700 bases around the world in 130 other countries? What would you call a nation that has over 500,000 troops stationed outside of its borders? What would you call a nation that spends more money on its military than the rest of the WORLD combined?

Leaving Iraq is not a defeat, unless your goal is to stay there indefinitely, like John McCain, who wants to commit to having bases there for 100 years? That is defeat in my book, giving into Imperialists who want American military bases in every other country.

Please, tell me what an empire is if it isn't America.