Jesus on Divorce and Remarriage

There are some instances where people in the Bible have sex, then they "get married" later.
 
TaftFan said:
There are some instances where people in the Bible have sex, then they "get married" later.
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Which are all in the OT before Jesus founded His Church and gave us the Sacraments, which are vital to our salvation.
 
eduardo89 said:
A validly-contracted marriage is accompanied by divine ratification, creating a virtually indissoluble union until the couple consummate, after which the marriage is completely indissoluble. So I will acknowledge that it is the consummation of the marriage that creates the indissoluble bond, but sex without the administration of the Sacrament of marriage is fornication and not a validly-contracted marriage.
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Eduardo, I would only object to the 'contract' part, which is way too legalistic to describe something as mystical as the union of man and wife. This is one of the differences between the Western Church and the Eastern Church with regards to marriage. The Eastern Church does not view the sacrament as a contract which the man and wife have executed alone by their vows, but rather it is the priest or the bishop who consecrates the marriage, who calls upon God in the name of the community, and asks that the Holy Spirit be sent down (epiclesis) on the man and woman and in this way make them “into one flesh”.

In addition marriage is for the Orthodox Church rather a spiritual path, a seeking after God, the mystery of oneness and love, the preparatory portrayal of the Kingdom of God, than a necessity for reproduction. Thus, two people can be married via the sacrament of marriage and never copulate and are still married and considered as one flesh. Sex is not what seals a marriage or unification, it is God Who does so mystically. Intercourse is simply a manifestation and expression of this love as one flesh, but is not what confirms a marriage.

Again, this is the Orthodox understanding which I assure you is the more ancient Christian understanding.
 
TER said:
Eduardo, I would only object to the 'contract' part, which is way too legalistic to describe something as mystical as the union of man and wife. This is one of the differences between the Western Church and the Eastern Church with regards to marriage. The Eastern Church does not view the sacrament as a contract which the man and wife have executed alone by their vows, but rather it is the priest or the bishop who consecrates the marriage, who calls upon God in the name of the community, and asks that the Holy Spirit be sent down (epiclesis) on the man and woman and in this way make them “into one flesh”.

In addition marriage is for the Orthodox Church rather a spiritual path, a seeking after God, the mystery of oneness and love, the preparatory portrayal of the Kingdom of God, than a necessity for reproduction. Thus, two people can be married via the sacrament of marriage and never copulate and are still married and considered as one flesh. Sex is not what seals a marriage or unification, it is God Who does so mystically. Intercourse is simply a manifestation and expression of this love as one flesh, but is not what confirms a marriage.

Again, this is the Orthodox understanding which I assure you is the more ancient Christian understanding.
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I agree with what you said and I do agree with the Orthodox view that marriage is a mystical union between husband and wife which is beyond comprehension to our limited senses and minds. I did not mean to sound so legalistic, as marriage is much much more than just a contract.

However, it is through the conjugal act that a man and women become one flesh. Genesis 2:24, also:
Matthew 19:5 "For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife, and they two shall be in one flesh."
Mark 10:8 "And they two shall be in one flesh."
1 Corinthians 6:16 "Or know you not, that he who is joined to a harlot, is made one body ? For they shall be, saith he, two in one flesh."
 
eduardo89 said:
I agree with what you said and I do agree with the Orthodox view that marriage is a mystical union between husband and wife which is beyond comprehension to our limited senses and minds. I did not mean to sound so legalistic, as marriage is much much more than just a contract.

However, it is through the conjugal act that a man and women become one flesh. Genesis 2:24, also:
Matthew 19:5 "For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife, and they two shall be in one flesh."
Mark 10:8 "And they two shall be in one flesh."
1 Corinthians 6:16 "Or know you not, that he who is joined to a harlot, is made one body ? For they shall be, saith he, two in one flesh."
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You bring up a good quote (the last one, as the first ones do not necessarily imply sexual intercourse) and it seems to underscore the mystical significance of sexual intercourse as having real, immenent, ontological effects to those who partake. However, this does not equate eternal union of flesh as occurs in the blessed sacrament of marriage. For, as you know, people have premarital sex, or they have sex with a harlot, or a member of the same sex or even an animal, and while they may be in one flesh during the act, they do not remain so as it is in marriage. That is why it is imperative to understand that it is not sex which makes the marriage holy, but God Who makes it holy and seals it with His Holy Spirit.
 
What True Marriage Points To

Let us not forget Paul's words in Ephesians 5:22-33. In that passage, we come to understand that marriage between a man and a woman is really a picture of Christ (the New Adam) and His Church (the New Eve). It is that union which helps us to understand the bond that was intended for a man and a woman, and it goes beyond just sexual fulfillment. Marriage, therefore, is not just a "voluntary contract" between two people. It is a covenantal union, to bring forth fruit to the glory of God and to enjoy the fellowship of the Triune God forever. Marriage, then, is founded on a relationship to God the Father through God the Son, enacted by God the Holy Spirit.
 
TER said:
You bring up a good quote (the last one, as the first ones do not necessarily imply sexual intercourse) and it seems to underscore the mystical significance of sexual intercourse as having real, immenent, ontological effects to those who partake. However, this does not equate eternal union of flesh as occurs in the blessed sacrament of marriage. For, as you know, people have premarital sex, or they have sex with a harlot, or a member of the same sex or even an animal, and while they may be in one flesh during the act, they do not remain so as it is in marriage. That is why it is imperative to understand that it is not sex which makes the marriage holy, but God Who makes it holy and seals it with His Holy Spirit.
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I completely agree with you, especially the bolded part. I am not saying it is sexual intercourse which creates the holy bound of marriage nor that sex means marriage like Sola_Fide claims. It is, however, the physical representation of the union between man and wife. I do believe it is one of the most profound expressions of love between a husband and wife and that it is a manifestation of God's plan for a husband and wife, ie: to have children.

Marriage is much more than just sex, though. As you said, in marriage husband and wife become one, not just in the act of sex but until death by the Sacrament of Marriage, which is indissoluble by man as Scripture clearly states (which was the point of this thread :p )
 
Actually, come to think of it, I have another question for Sola_Fide...

Considering 1 Corinthians 7:5, if a woman were genuinely married to her rapist, she would in fact be required, Biblically, to perform sexually for him. The article tried to make the argument that she could remain chaste, but 1 Corinthians 7:5 disproves this.

This is a screwed up theological system.
 
Theocrat said:
Let us not forget Paul's words in Ephesians 5:22-33. In that passage, we come to understand that marriage between a man and a woman is really a picture of Christ (the New Adam) and His Church (the New Eve). It is that union which helps us to understand the bond that was intended for a man and a woman, and it goes beyond just sexual fulfillment. Marriage, therefore, is not just a "voluntary contract" between two people. It is a covenantal union, to bring forth fruit to the glory of God and to enjoy the fellowship of the Triune God forever. Marriage, then, is founded on a relationship to God the Father through God the Son, enacted by God the Holy Spirit.
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Well said. The part in bold I need to find a video I watched last night while researching which related marriage to the Trinity. I'll try and find it now and post it here.
 
Theocrat said:
Let us not forget Paul's words in Ephesians 5:22-33. In that passage, we come to understand that marriage between a man and a woman is really a picture of Christ (the New Adam) and His Church (the New Eve). It is that union which helps us to understand the bond that was intended for a man and a woman, and it goes beyond just sexual fulfillment. Marriage, therefore, is not just a "voluntary contract" between two people. It is a covenantal union, to bring forth fruit to the glory of God and to enjoy the fellowship of the Triune God forever. Marriage, then, is founded on a relationship to God the Father through God the Son, enacted by God the Holy Spirit.
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Well said, Theo! When did you become Orthodox? :p
 
Sola_Fide said:
Why do you say that?
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I was actually a bit surprised since you sent me a James White video awhile ago regarding the interpretation of a certain Biblical text. The idea that Arminians are not saved is clearly ridiculous and not backed by Scripture. There's nothing in the Bible that teaches that a misunderstanding of free will means that one isn't saved.

Just out of curiosity, based on what I have posted here, do you believe I am a Christian or not?
 
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You know a book must be great when 10 people reading it use it to justify 10 different, mutually exclusive views on the same subject.
 
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