Jack Hunter: RON PAUL IS BECOMING SOMETHING MORE IMPORTANT THAN PRESIDENT

[Butchie]

I have a question for all of you tho: Jack is correct, there are a large number of evangelicals in the party, however, did they take over the GOP or is it the other way around? Name me one significant piece of christian legislation the evangelicals have gotten in their 24yrs since they supposedly took over the party??? Fact is, it's the classic case of the tail wagging the dog, because the establishment GOP knows the golden rule, despite all the hooting and hollering, those evangelicals at the end of the day will fall in line and support whatever piece of crap candidate the GOP gives them, be it Bush Jr, McCain, Romney, you name it.

Same thing happened with the Tea Party as well and now it appears it is going to happen to us, but so few of you see it. Sorry Jack, but we aren't going to take over the party by getting in bed with them, they are going to take us over.

 

[LibertyEagle]

I have a question for all of you tho: Jack is correct, there are a large number of evangelicals in the party, however, did they take over the GOP or is it the other way around? Name me one significant piece of christian legislation the evangelicals have gotten in their 24yrs since they supposedly took over the party??? Fact is, it's the classic case of the tail wagging the dog, because the establishment GOP knows the golden rule, despite all the hooting and hollering, those evangelicals at the end of the day will fall in line and support whatever piece of crap candidate the GOP gives them, be it Bush Jr, McCain, Romney, you name it.

Same thing happened with the Tea Party as well and now it appears it is going to happen to us, but so few of you see it. Sorry Jack, but we aren't going to take over the party by getting in bed with them, they are going to take us over.

Butchie, some of them are neoconservatives and it seems like many of the others stupidly vote along with them.

I don't think anyone is saying that we should compromise one single principle. I know I am not willing to do that. What I think a better example would have been is for Jack to talk about how the neocons took over the conservative wing of the Republican Party. They are who appears to be running the show in the GOP. They took it over pretty damn quickly too. Our movement can take it back and we are well on the way to doing that. IF we just do not give up.

Ron didn't seem to be able to express the message in terms that conservatives understood. He often used leftist jargon that I'm telling ya, would make most conservatives, even real ones, blast right on off; closing their ears as they did so. There is nothing wrong with the message. Nothing needs to change. It just needs to be explained in terms that resonate with them. I think Rand is one of the people who can do that. This is his mission in our journey. Ron already has US and I know that I am not going anywhere. How can you, once you understand the message? But, we have many more people to get on-board and that is what Rand is after. This is my belief, anyway.

 

[matt0611]

Ron didn't seem to be able to express the message in terms that conservatives understood. He often used leftist jargon that I'm telling ya, would make most conservatives, even real ones, blast right on off; closing their ears as they did so. There is nothing wrong with the message. Nothing needs to change. It just needs to be explained in terms that resonate with them. I think Rand is one of the people who can do that. This is his mission in our journey. Ron already has US and I know that I am not going anywhere. How can you, once you understand the message? But, we have many more people to get on-board and that is what Rand is after. This is my belief, anyway.

Yup, this is all just a setup for a Rand 2016 run. It's amazing to me that people don't see this and are ready to quit or hang Rand as a traitor over this.

 

[Butchie]

Butchie, some of them are neoconservatives and it seems like many of the others stupidly vote along with them.

I don't think anyone is saying that we should compromise one single principle. I know I am not willing to do that. What I think a better example would have been is for Jack to talk about how the neocons took over the conservative wing of the Republican Party. They are who appears to be running the show in the GOP. They took it over pretty damn quickly too. Our movement can take it back and we are well on the way to doing that. IF we just do not give up.

Ron didn't seem to be able to express the message in terms that conservatives understood. He often used leftist jargon that I'm telling ya, would make most conservatives, even real ones, blast right on off; closing their ears as they did so. There is nothing wrong with the message. Nothing needs to change. It just needs to be explained in terms that resonate with them. I think Rand is one of the people who can do that. This is his mission in our journey. Ron already has US and I know that I am not going anywhere. How can you, once you understand the message? But, we have many more people to get on-board and that is what Rand is after. This is my belief, anyway.

I agree with that wholeheartedly and I've been bashed continuously by the RP fanatics for suggesting Ron change his presentation (not his message, but they don't get that part). Where I disagree with you however is despite our more misbehaved supporters and Ron's speaking troubles we seemed to have had a good rhythm going there for awhile, winning caucuses, taking over leadership positions, etc, I say why not just let it play out, I agree winning was out of reach, I've known that for sometime but why do this now? Also, I'd even be fine just saying in passing if asked "Yeah sure, I support the nominee" but to go around campaigning for the guy, telling people he has good ideas and wants to audit the fed? Come on.

 

[cpike]

I think what many people fail to see, is that Rand gave up something almost completely worthless (but looks valuable to the establishment), in order to further the cause of liberty? Compromising principles? He gave an endorsement he KNEW the vast majority in this movement would ignore, to a man who has about as much chance beating Obama as Ron Paul did of getting the nomination. Look at the math, Romney's not going to be president barring something unforeseen. Rand gave up nothing, its not like he said he would support NDAA to get Audit the Fed? That I would disagree with, he gave words that will be inconsequential. Plus, what IF Romney picks him as his VP choice (which is actually something WE could force upon him at the RNC), would that not be better than say a Christie? This could give us the best possible chance of a liberty person being in the White House in 2016. Keep working, do in your state, and your area, like we accomplished here in Minnesota. Find good liberty candidates and work, work, work. Respect from the establishment will not be freely given, we need to earn it, and that can be done without working for Romney. This is more than one, or two election cycles. Stay involved, only that way can we start pushing liberty. This is not the time to quit, this is not the time to make judgements without all the information, wait and see how this plays out, and STAY INVOLVED.

 

[Southerner]

THIS Thread (or at least Hunters VIDEO, should be STICKIED! to the TOP!!~!

 

[Aratus]

^this^ good idea! toss in the CEASEFIRE thread because people are cooling down

 

[Paul or not at all]

I have a question for all of you tho: Jack is correct, there are a large number of evangelicals in the party, however, did they take over the GOP or is it the other way around? Name me one significant piece of christian legislation the evangelicals have gotten in their 24yrs since they supposedly took over the party??? Fact is, it's the classic case of the tail wagging the dog, because the establishment GOP knows the golden rule, despite all the hooting and hollering, those evangelicals at the end of the day will fall in line and support whatever piece of crap candidate the GOP gives them, be it Bush Jr, McCain, Romney, you name it.

Same thing happened with the Tea Party as well and now it appears it is going to happen to us, but so few of you see it. Sorry Jack, but we aren't going to take over the party by getting in bed with them, they are going to take us over.

Partial birth abortion was banned and state laws restricting abortions have increased.

 

[Bastiat's The Law]

Yup, this is all just a setup for a Rand 2016 run. It's amazing to me that people don't see this and are ready to quit or hang Rand as a traitor over this.

They're either cult fanaticists or liberty movement saboteurs. We won't need them anyway, because Rand is an excellent communicator of our ideas. Rand is actually strongest where Ron is weakest.

 

[Southerner]

+rep for posting that video Bastiat, I had never seen it b4.

 

[BamaFanNKy]

What has the Christian Conservatives gotten for their trouble?

Um, you realize they push our relationship with Israel more than any group? Have you heard of the "War on Drugs," DOMA, Government funding for their organizations while remaining tax free...... I could keep going.

 

[Vessol]

Yup, this is all just a setup for a Rand 2016 run. It's amazing to me that people don't see this and are ready to quit or hang Rand as a traitor over this.

And if Romney wins?

 

[Bastiat's The Law]

What has the Christian Conservatives gotten for their trouble?

Um, you realize they push our relationship with Israel more than any group? Have you heard of the "War on Drugs," DOMA, Government funding for their organizations while remaining tax free...... I could keep going.

Not to mention their Christian Conservative candidates always do well in the nomination process...Santorum, Huckabee, etc. In fact, I think if Huckabee ran this go around he would've have easily ran the table and cleaned everyone's clock.

 

[Bastiat's The Law]

And if Romney wins?

Not likely, but if he did, we focus all our efforts on electing liberty candidates to Congress. Look what we did with Thomas Massie. He could hold his seat in Kentucky for the rest of his life if he wanted to. These candidates then become feeders for even higher elected offices in the future. Almost like a minor league of Liberty candidates if you will. For example, if Rand runs in 2016 and gives up his Senate seat, Massie could then step up and replace Rand in the Senate keeping that seat firmly in our hands. Then we could have someone in the 4th district of Kentucky step up and replace Massie in the House. You follow me? If we played our cards right we're in the drivers seat in 2016 whether or not Romney wins.

What third parties couldn't do in 40 years, the Ron Paul movement has succeeded in doing in only 2 years!! Electing people to House and Senate is nothing to sneeze at. Our goal should be to elect a new class of liberty-minded candidates to Congress every damn election cycle!

 

[Butchie]

Partial birth abortion was banned and state laws restricting abortions have increased.

In 24yrs, they have prevented a few abortions, or sent them underground, but in their quest to end abortion they voted in candidates who added 6T+ to our debt, started 2 disastrous wars, gave us No Child Left Behind, Medicare Part D, DHS, TSA, Patriot Act, NDAA, Housing Bubble etc, etc. Tell me, was that little bone the GOP threw at them worth it?

What has the Christian Conservatives gotten for their trouble?

Um, you realize they push our relationship with Israel more than any group? Have you heard of the "War on Drugs," DOMA, Government funding for their organizations while remaining tax free...... I could keep going.

Are those Christian values or establishment using Christians to push those agendas? BTW, most religious organizations were running tax free before the Pat Robertson Revolt.

 

[matt0611]

And if Romney wins?

He won't IMO. But if he does it doesn't change anything, we keep staying the course. Elect as many liberty candidates to congress and local positions as possible in 2012 and 2014. Obama or Romney will be President in 2013. Not much can be done about that now.

 

[matt0611]

In 24yrs, they have prevented a few abortions, or sent them underground, but in their quest to end abortion they voted in candidates who added 6T+ to our debt, started 2 disastrous wars, gave us No Child Left Behind, Medicare Part D, DHS, TSA, Patriot Act, NDAA, Housing Bubble etc, etc. Tell me, was that little bone the GOP threw at them worth it?



Are those Christian values or establishment using Christians to push those agendas? BTW, most religious organizations were running tax free before the Pat Robertson Revolt.

It doesn't matter to them because they are pretty much fine with all the things you mentioned.

 

[BamaFanNKy]

BTW, most religious organizations were running tax free before the Pat Robertson Revolt.

Not while receiving Govt. funds.

 

[HopeForHumanity]

I'll summarize the major problem with Rand Paul's endorsement. Its purpose was to gain the Republican parties respect for the paulian ideal, but our current task was not to simply gain the respect of neoconservative Republicans. Our purpose was to become the Republican Party. Its a completely different ball game. We actually had a good strategy going; we were ignoring the neocons and using their rules to our favor. It was working just fine that way, we were taking over and more and more people were accepting the liberty movement and joining it. I cant tell you the growth we have seen in the past year. My area literally had nothing to do with Ron Paul, now I see signs everywhere I go. The endorsement of Mitt Romney killed all this progress. It surrendered our movements momentum. Sure, establishment republicans may not have as much "beef" with ron paul supporters after this, but they will still hold the false ideals over the publics eyes.

 

[BamaFanNKy]

I'll summarize the major problem with Rand Paul's endorsement. Its purpose was to gain the Republican parties respect for the paulian ideal, but our current task was not to simply gain the respect of neoconservative Republicans. Our purpose was to become the Republican Party. Its a completely different ball game. We actually had a good strategy going; we were ignoring the neocons and using their rules to our favor. It was working just fine that way, we were taking over and more and more people were accepting the liberty movement and joining it. I cant tell you the growth we have seen in the past year. My area literally had nothing to do with Ron Paul, now I see signs everywhere I go. The endorsement of Mitt Romney killed all this progress. It surrendered our movements momentum. Sure, establishment republicans may not have as much "beef" with ron paul supporters after this, but they will still hold the false ideals over the publics eyes.

If Rand Paul endorsing killed momentum.... there was no momentum.