Jack Hunter: RON PAUL IS BECOMING SOMETHING MORE IMPORTANT THAN PRESIDENT

[BamaFanNKy]

I haven't watched the whole thing yet but I'm already a little confused by the analogy between our movement and the Christian Coalition of the late 1980s. Let's look at a couple of things to see just how much influence the CC has REALLY had in the GOP in 20+ years.

Everyone knows that the one issue most conservative Christians care about is abortion. If a candidate is pro-choice, they won't even consider him/her no matter what else he/she supports. How are things working out for the CC on that issue? Abortion has been legal since 1973. They are no closer to what they want now than they were in 1988 when Pat Robertson ran for POTUS.

More recently, they supported Rick Santorum in 2012. How did that work out?

If these two examples are a glimpse into the future for the liberty movement, count me out. We can do better than groveling for crumbs from the GOP table.

You are getting hung up on the analogy. Plus, their big issue is more than abortion. One is "Supporting Israel."

 

[matt0611]

I guess people still don't get it.

The problem is the two party criminal system. A delusional video doesn't change the fact that has long as that system exists, nothing will change. The system is purposely set up that way by design to make each side believe their vote matters. In the end, it doesn't. To bring about real liberty change, people have to wake up out of their trances and a viable third party has to pose a threat to such system. Then and only then will real change occur.

The only people quitting are those that believe we can hijack the Republican party with our 10%. Let the establishment co-opting begin.

The two party system is built into the US political system. Its not going to change. If you think its going to then you are the one who's delusional.

 

[ronpaulfollower999]

How does endorsing Romney help Rand? It's not going to convince any of us to vote for Romney, and Rand loses the respect of many by endorsing him.

 

[matt0611]

You are getting hung up on the analogy. Plus, their big issue is more than abortion. One is "Supporting Israel."

+ gay marriage

 

[vechorik]

+rep, V. Where are your PFH numbers now?

LOL 11,000 and slowed down for local politics -- got delegate -- went to state convention -- got elected GOP Executive Committee -- attend montly GOP meetings and now starting a local program called "Freedom Watch Group" to monitor state legislature. We're an activist group to pressure legislature good/bad bills. So busy -- but feel great things are happening in my state. The RP presidential supporters are sticking together and doing great things in my state -- BOTTOM UP! Just like the socialist did to get America in this mess while the people were sleeping!

Came back to try and show the anarchists why Rand is right in what he's doing!

 

[LibertyEagle]

You keep talking about "quitting"...you've said that to me before.

I'm not going to be doing anything differently tomorrow from what I did yesterday. I'M NOT QUITTING!

Give me someone with principles I can believe in, and show me that person will stand by those principles through thick and thin...I will vote for that person. I don't care what political party they belong to, or whether they belong to a political party at all.

But if you tell me that person must sign on with the devil to advance the agenda, count me out. That's not advancing anything.

I'm with you. But, I do not believe that Rand Paul has sold anything at all to the devil. Did you listen to what he said he talked to Romney about? It sounds to me like he is doing whatever he can to further our ideals.

Do you honestly believe he will vote for Romney? Because I don't.

Nothing has changed. Nothing.

 

[matt0611]

I'm with you. But, I do not believe that Rand Paul has sold anything at all to the devil. Did you listen to what he said he talked to Romney about? It sounds to me like he is doing whatever he can to further our ideals.

Do you honestly believe he will vote for Romney? Because I don't.

Nothing has changed. Nothing.

Yup, I still can't believe people don't understand what's going on here.

 

[Bastiat's The Law]

Yup, I still can't believe people don't understand what's going on here.

They don't know the way the game is played. They're still reading the instructions on the Checkers box, while everyone else is playing Chess.

 

[gte811i]

I guess people still don't get it.

The problem is the two party criminal system. A delusional video doesn't change the fact that has long as that system exists, nothing will change. The system is purposely set up that way by design to make each side believe their vote matters. In the end, it doesn't. To bring about real liberty change, people have to wake up out of their trances and a viable third party has to pose a threat to such system. Then and only then will real change occur.

The only people quitting are those that believe we can hijack the Republican party with our 10%. Let the establishment co-opting begin.

The two party system is criminal, but as things stand now there is no way around it. It requires a complete paradigm shift in a huge portion of the voting public, a change of laws, etc. Right now it's not feasible. I would say the people who are quitting are those who believe they can convince 90% of the voting public to vote 3rd party for President.

Much more realistic to take over the Rep. party vs. trying to build one from the ground up, especially when the actual party bosses of the Repub. party are literally dying off and there are very few people to replace them.

The Libertarian Party is just simply pissed that in 4 years the Ron Paul movement has had more success than they've had in 30+ years. Well, get over it we are on the same team. And I call BS on taking over the R party, we did it in my county, almost did it in my district, did it in Iowa, Minn, Maine, Nevada, Alaska, LA. The RP movement took over more than 10% of the states GOP party. It is real and it can happen. In fact it would happen if more people would actually get off their rears and make it happen instead of saying it can't happen. In many counties in GA all we needed were an extra 10-20 people to have shown up. If we did that we would have taken over GA, as it was we had anywhere from 35%-40% at the state convention.

 

[BamaFanNKy]

 

[cajuncocoa]

 

[BamaFanNKy]

You keep supporting OJ and the use of knives.

 

[robertwerden]

I would love to agree with Jack Hunter but:

1. The American voting public sees the election of a President as the course of what the country should follow.
2. Losing the election will empower the anti Paul republicans to mock and demoralize many in the liberty movement.
3. Mitt Romney will not carry fourth any of the Liberty message of Ron Paul, as past Presidents carried fourth the social conservative message. Thus our movement will not have the same traction towards future elections as the Pat Robertson movement did.
4. Adding Amash and Massie to the roll calls of congress does not equal a majority in the house for liberty. It is simple math, we had Paul, he retired and we replaced him with Massie, that is a net loss because Massie will have no committee appointments or clout.
5. Those who had their apathy cured will slide right back into it if Romney does not show any signs of carrying forward the liberty message.
6. The Robertson establishment will not stand for Romney, and will primary him in 2016. He may get their vote this year just to unseat Obama, but not two terms.

I am sure if I sat here I could poke dozens of holes in Hunters spin doctoring of the campaign situation, but let me close with this.

My analysis of the situation from what I believe Ron Paul may be struggling with is this:
Ron Paul did want to get elected as President, but not like this. He wanted the rank and file GOP to open their eyes and come around to his message. When that did not happen and they went for Santorum and Romney, he realized that the only way he could win the nomination would be if his supporters staged a coop and took over the party. But then he saw how hard the establishment was fighting back, and realized that he commanded an army of grass roots who would not be push overs. When he saw his grass roots fighting back and winning and saw the reality that we are going to tampa with the goal of denying Romney the nomination, he realized he had created a machine that was now out of his control.

The question now is put out there, does he accept the nomination if we indeed win it for him? Will he do what Hillary Clinton did, and be ushered to the convention floor being protested by fervent supporters to not concede, only to do just that.

Or will he accept the victory, and complete the Revolution that he started by showing the establishment that the irate tireless minority quote he so often repeated is in fact truth to power.

 

[cajuncocoa]

You keep supporting OJ and the use of knives.

what?

You DO realize that's not a video of OJ Simpson, right?

 

[BamaFanNKy]

what?

You DO realize that's not a video of OJ Simpson, right?

Someone can't see political strategy or sarcasm.

 

[NoOneButPaul]

The two party system is criminal, but as things stand now there is no way around it. It requires a complete paradigm shift in a huge portion of the voting public, a change of laws, etc. Right now it's not feasible. I would say the people who are quitting are those who believe they can convince 90% of the voting public to vote 3rd party for President.

Much more realistic to take over the Rep. party vs. trying to build one from the ground up, especially when the actual party bosses of the Repub. party are literally dying off and there are very few people to replace them.

The Libertarian Party is just simply pissed that in 4 years the Ron Paul movement has had more success than they've had in 30+ years. Well, get over it we are on the same team. And I call BS on taking over the R party, we did it in my county, almost did it in my district, did it in Iowa, Minn, Maine, Nevada, Alaska, LA. The RP movement took over more than 10% of the states GOP party. It is real and it can happen. In fact it would happen if more people would actually get off their rears and make it happen instead of saying it can't happen. In many counties in GA all we needed were an extra 10-20 people to have shown up. If we did that we would have taken over GA, as it was we had anywhere from 35%-40% at the state convention.

We're taking over all these states from the ground up and people just don't seem to notice or care or understand the significance...

These battles aren't won in 5 years, they take decades, and the foundations we are laying will be built upon.

The real way to destroy the 2-party system is to take control of the GOP, then take the Congress and the POTUS, and then amend the constitution to ban all political parties.

That's the way you beat the system. If the LP and CP people would wise up and start helping us it would be a tremendous boost. We can destroy the 2-party system but first we have to take it over.

 

[sailingaway]

I seriously wish Hunter hadn't done this. I know he is protecting Rand, but I feel sold out.

 

[sailingaway]

Thank you Jack Hunter for putting things into perspective. Its nice to have some rationality and realism around here.

You jumped onto 'rationality and realism' some time ago.

 

[paulbot24]

I would love to agree with Jack Hunter but:

1. The American voting public sees the election of a President as the course of what the country should follow.
2. Losing the election will empower the anti Paul republicans to mock and demoralize many in the liberty movement.
3. Mitt Romney will not carry fourth any of the Liberty message of Ron Paul, as past Presidents carried fourth the social conservative message. Thus our movement will not have the same traction towards future elections as the Pat Robertson movement did.
4. Adding Amash and Massie to the roll calls of congress does not equal a majority in the house for liberty. It is simple math, we had Paul, he retired and we replaced him with Massie, that is a net loss because Massie will have no committee appointments or clout.
5. Those who had their apathy cured will slide right back into it if Romney does not show any signs of carrying forward the liberty message.
6. The Robertson establishment will not stand for Romney, and will primary him in 2016. He may get their vote this year just to unseat Obama, but not two terms.

I am sure if I sat here I could poke dozens of holes in Hunters spin doctoring of the campaign situation, but let me close with this.

My analysis of the situation from what I believe Ron Paul may be struggling with is this:
Ron Paul did want to get elected as President, but not like this. He wanted the rank and file GOP to open their eyes and come around to his message. When that did not happen and they went for Santorum and Romney, he realized that the only way he could win the nomination would be if his supporters staged a coop and took over the party. But then he saw how hard the establishment was fighting back, and realized that he commanded an army of grass roots who would not be push overs. When he saw his grass roots fighting back and winning and saw the reality that we are going to tampa with the goal of denying Romney the nomination, he realized he had created a machine that was now out of his control.

The question now is put out there, does he accept the nomination if we indeed win it for him? Will he do what Hillary Clinton did, and be ushered to the convention floor being protested by fervent supporters to not concede, only to do just that.

Or will he accept the victory, and complete the Revolution that he started by showing the establishment that the irate tireless minority quote he so often repeated is in fact truth to power.

/\/\/\/\
THIS
Read this again and think about it. Still waiting for an email from Carol.....

 

[sailingaway]

Jack Hunter has a gift for putting everything into perspective (I shudder to think what Adam the Man will do with this)

Jack Hunter said (more or less) It's alright to compromise politically to advance PRINCIPLE, it's never okay to compromise principle to gain politically. That's what Rand is doing -- compromising politically to gain in PRINCIPLE! Smart! Rewarding! and great things are to come! Get with the program -- the REVOLUTION continues!

To be honest, that sounds like baffling with bullshit, to me.

I'm not making hasty long term judgments about Rand. I never thought he was Ron, although this, before convention is a gut blow. I'll deal with what I think about him later.

But saying Ron's saying his current delegate count won't nominate him for November is having 'conceded' is breaking faith with those who are working to make the absolute most of Ron's run on every front.