I've decided that a collapse is not imminent.

[FreeMama]

I don't think they are going to "get" China like in some creepy way. . . I agree with Peter when he says Asia is in a good position. . . I understand why Jim Rogers went to Asia.

Not a conspiracy. . . just business lol

 

[Stary Hickory]

Bureaucrats aren't smart enough to pull off any "conspiracies." Do you honestly think the same people that brought you the Katrina aid and the DMV can orchestrate a mass conspiracy?

exactly, the politicians aren't scheming. They don't even know what the hell is going on themselves. I don't think there has been a more ignorant bunch of arrogant goons. Yeah they are immoral and corrupt, but they can't even stop fighting amongst themselves, much less organize a massive conspiracy.

I think the socialist agenda is seeing it's final days. We have had a lot, and a lot of gradual socialist changes over the last 80 years or so. And now we are seeing what this does to a nation....the world is to an extent. Socialists lost the economic argument when the USSR died, and we have failed social programs in our faces in the US, and all over the world. The financial crisis is being seen more and more as a government created issue because the bailouts defy common sense and logic.

This makes people suspicious of all government activities. People are waking up and paying attention, and not only that they are catching up on all the sneaky back door stuff the socialists have been doing. As far as some commie/socialist takeover is concerned...I think that's not going to happen. We are going to see a return to reason pretty soon. It may not be pure like we want, but a definite turn away from the intellectually and morally ideas of socialism.

 

[sevin]

exactly, the politicians aren't scheming. They don't even know what the hell is going on themselves.

This is true of congress, not of the banksters working behind the scenes.

 

[tmosley]

This is true of congress, not of the banksters working behind the scenes.

Read Atlas Shrugged, then tell me that those guys are competent. They are certainly corrupt, but they aren't smart enough to organize such things. The only great conspiracy that is alive in this world is the banking conspiracy, and all of the people in charge of it have fallen for the same propaganda their fathers and grandfathers fed us so long ago. The conspiracy is going ahead, but there isn't a driver, so it can't really be called a conspiracy anymore. Now it's nothing more than an antiquated, easily corrupted system of fiat money that is destined to go off a cliff at some point.

The bankers are in lockstep with the government, and hold a favored place for now. Once they fall out of favor with the government, they will all lose as well. The corrupt will feed on each other until there is nothing left. At that point we can step in and bring a bloodless revolution.

 

[LibForestPaul]

I

So the endgame is NOT, I repeat NOT here yet. They have alot of work to do. They are patient and meticulous. We have at least 5 years before the final plays are implemented, almost certainly 10, and maybe even 20. Dont despair.

Your flaw is the word "They"

There is no they, but those. Those in power, with guns, and money, and they are not all they, but separate thems.

Russia/(China) <=other thems
India*
Iran
Saudi/Yemen/Jordan/Egypt*
English(French/Dutch) <=your them
America <=you are here
*Playing all angles.

 

[american.swan]

Ron Paul's efforts prove something. His years in D.C. has taught him something. He wouldn't be trying if he thought it was a lost cause. That is the most encouraging thing to remember.

What has it taught him? I'm not sure, but we can guess. No matter how corrupt the executive branch might be, Ron Paul believes he can make a difference in Congress, by taking it over with our movement. Congress can't in "in on it" because Ron Paul wouldn't be trying if it was. So currently Congress is just misguided fools, who are suckers for money and want to get re-elected.

Remember that folks. As long as congress has power we have a chance to take it over and win this in the long run.

Remember Hitler put SS type troops in Germany's "Congress". Why? Think about it. We have work to do.

 

[Bossobass]

They railroaded this guy into prison soon after he made this speech. If anyone who reads it sees no extremely well organized and executed conspiracy, I prescribe a swift boot in the arse.

James Traficant's U.S. Bankruptcy Speech

The Bankruptcy of The United States
United States Congressional Record, March 17, 1993 Vol. 33, page H-1303
Speaker-Rep. James Traficant, Jr. (Ohio) addressing the House:
"Mr. Speaker, we are here now in chapter 11. Members of Congress are official trustees presiding over the greatest reorganization of any Bankrupt entity in world history, the U.S. Government. We are setting forth hopefully, a blueprint for our future. There are some who say it is a coroner’s report that will lead to our demise.
It is an established fact that the United States Federal Government has been dissolved by the Emergency Banking Act, March 9, 1933, 48 Stat. 1, Public Law 89-719; declared by President Roosevelt, being bankrupt and insolvent. H.J.R. 192, 73rd Congress m session June 5, 1933 - Joint Resolution To Suspend The Gold Standard and Abrogate The Gold Clause dissolved the Sovereign Authority of the United States and the official capacities of all United States Governmental Offices, Officers, and Departments and is further evidence that the United States Federal Government exists today in name only.

The receivers of the United States Bankruptcy are the International Bankers, via the United Nations, the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund. All United States Offices, Officials, and Departments are now operating within a de facto status in name only under Emergency War Powers. With the Constitutional Republican form of Government now dissolved, the receivers of the Bankruptcy have adopted a new form of government for the United States. This new form of government is known as a Democracy, being an established Socialist/Communist order under a new governor for America. This act was instituted and established by transferring and/or placing the Office of the Secretary of Treasury to that of the Governor of the International Monetary Fund. Public Law 94-564, page 8, Section H.R. 13955 reads in part: "The U.S. Secretary of Treasury receives no compensation for representing the United States."

Gold and silver were such a powerful money during the founding of the united states of America, that the founding fathers declared that only gold or silver coins can be "money" in America. Since gold and silver coinage were heavy and inconvenient for a lot of transactions, they were stored in banks and a claim check was issued as a money substitute. People traded their coupons as money, or "currency." Currency is not money, but a money substitute. Redeemable currency must promise to pay a dollar equivalent in gold or silver money. Federal Reserve Notes (FRNs) make no such promises, and are not "money." A Federal Reserve Note is a debt obligation of the federal United States government, not "money." The federal United States government and the U.S. Congress were not and have never been authorized by the Constitution for the united states of America to issue currency of any kind, but only lawful money, gold and silver coin.

It is essential that we comprehend the distinction between real money and paper money substitute. One cannot get rich by accumulating money substitutes, one can only get deeper into debt. We the People no longer have any "money." Most Americans have not been paid any "money" for a very long time, perhaps not in their entire life. Now do you comprehend why you feel broke? Now, do you understand why you are "bankrupt," along with the rest of the country?
Federal Reserve Notes (FRNs) are unsigned checks written on a closed account. FRNs are an inflatable paper system designed to create debt through inflation (devaluation of currency). when ever there is an increase of the supply of a money substitute in the economy without a corresponding increase in the gold and silver backing, inflation occurs.

Inflation is an invisible form of taxation that irresponsible governments inflict on their citizens. The Federal Reserve Bank who controls the supply and movement of FRNs has everybody fooled. They have access to an unlimited supply of FRNs, paying only for the printing costs of what they need. FRNs are nothing more than promissory notes for U.S. Treasury securities (T-Bills) - a promise to pay the debt to the Federal Reserve Bank.
There is a fundamental difference between "paying" and "discharging" a debt. To pay a debt, you must pay with value or substance (i.e. gold, silver, barter or a commodity). With FRNs, you can only discharge a debt. You cannot pay a debt with a debt currency system. You cannot service a debt with a currency that has no backing in value or substance. No contract in Common law is valid unless it involves an exchange of "good & valuable consideration." Unpayable debt transfers power and control to the sovereign power structure that has no interest in money, law, equity or justice because they have so much wealth already.
Their lust is for power and control. Since the inception of central banking, they have controlled the fates of nations.

The Federal Reserve System is based on the Canon law and the principles of sovereignty protected in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. In fact, the international bankers used a "Canon Law Trust" as their model, adding stock and naming it a "Joint Stock Trust." The U.S. Congress had passed a law making it illegal for any legal "person" to duplicate a "Joint Stock Trust" in 1873. The Federal Reserve Act was legislated post-facto (to 1870), although post-facto laws are strictly forbidden by the Constitution. [1:9:3]

The Federal Reserve System is a sovereign power structure separate and distinct from the federal United States government. The Federal Reserve is a maritime lender, and/or maritime insurance underwriter to the federal United States operating exclusively under Admiralty/Maritime law. The lender or underwriter bears the risks, and the Maritime law compelling specific performance in paying the interest, or premiums are the same.

Assets of the debtor can also be hypothecated (to pledge something as a security without taking possession of it.) as security by the lender or underwriter. The Federal Reserve Act stipulated that the interest on the debt was to be paid in gold. There was no stipulation in the Federal Reserve Act for ever paying the principle.
Prior to 1913, most Americans owned clear, allodial title to property, free and clear of any liens or mortgages until the Federal Reserve Act (1913)

"Hypothecated" all property within the federal United States to the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve, -in which the Trustees (stockholders) held legal title. The U.S. citizen (tenant, franchisee) was registered as a "beneficiary" of the trust via his/her birth certificate. In 1933, the federal United States hypothecated all of the present and future properties, assets and labor of their "subjects," the 14th Amendment U.S. citizen, to the Federal Reserve System.

In return, the Federal Reserve System agreed to extend the federal United States corporation all the credit "money substitute" it needed. Like any other debtor, the federal United States government had to assign collateral and security to their creditors as a condition of the loan. Since the federal United States didn’t have any assets, they assigned the private property of their "economic slaves", the U.S. citizens as collateral against the unpayable federal debt. They also pledged the unincorporated federal territories, national parks forests, birth certificates, and nonprofit organizations, as collateral against the federal debt. All has already been transferred as payment to the international bankers.

Unwittingly, America has returned to its pre-American Revolution, feudal roots whereby all land is held by a sovereign and the common people had no rights to hold allodial title to property. Once again, We the People are the tenants and sharecroppers renting our own property from a Sovereign in the guise of the Federal Reserve Bank. We the people have exchanged one master for another.

This has been going on for over eighty years without the "informed knowledge" of the American people, without a voice protesting loud enough. Now it’s easy to grasp why America is fundamentally bankrupt.

Why don’t more people own their properties outright?

Why are 90% of Americans mortgaged to the hilt and have little or no assets after all debts and liabilities have been paid? Why does it feel like you are working harder and harder and getting less and less?

We are reaping what has been sown, and the results of our harvest is a painful bankruptcy, and a foreclosure on American property, precious liberties, and a way of life. Few of our elected representatives in Washington, D.C. have dared to tell the truth. The federal United States is bankrupt. Our children will inherit this unpayable debt, and the tyranny to enforce paying it.

America has become completely bankrupt in world leadership, financial credit and its reputation for courage, vision and human rights. This is an undeclared economic war, bankruptcy, and economic slavery of the most corrupt order! Wake up America! Take back your Country." [emphasis added]
http://www.afn.org/~govern/bankruptcy.html

Bosso

 

[Dr.3D]

They railroaded this guy into prison soon after he made this speech. If anyone who reads it sees no extremely well organized and executed conspiracy, I prescribe a swift boot in the arse.



Bosso

This quote caught my eye.

The federal United States government and the U.S. Congress were not and have never been authorized by the Constitution for the united states of America to issue currency of any kind, but only lawful money, gold and silver coin.

Seems they got around that by authorizing a private entity to issue a fiat currency.

 

[silverhawks]

Read Atlas Shrugged, then tell me that those guys are competent. They are certainly corrupt, but they aren't smart enough to organize such things. The only great conspiracy that is alive in this world is the banking conspiracy, and all of the people in charge of it have fallen for the same propaganda their fathers and grandfathers fed us so long ago. The conspiracy is going ahead, but there isn't a driver, so it can't really be called a conspiracy anymore. Now it's nothing more than an antiquated, easily corrupted system of fiat money that is destined to go off a cliff at some point.

The bankers are in lockstep with the government, and hold a favored place for now. Once they fall out of favor with the government, they will all lose as well. The corrupt will feed on each other until there is nothing left. At that point we can step in and bring a bloodless revolution.

Only problem with that is - if we are waiting for that moment to happen, there are others also waiting for it to happen for their own purposes. Remember, we are in a period of unparalleled democracy in the USA right now - which is always a transitory state of governance. We are going to have to fight - figuratively or literally - for a republic to be the government that rises after this system falls apart, or risk a fascist dictatorship of some kind promising to lead people out of the lean times.

 

[tmosley]

Only problem with that is - if we are waiting for that moment to happen, there are others also waiting for it to happen for their own purposes. Remember, we are in a period of unparalleled democracy in the USA right now - which is always a transitory state of governance. We are going to have to fight - figuratively or literally - for a republic to be the government that rises after this system falls apart, or risk a fascist dictatorship of some kind promising to lead people out of the lean times.

I'm not saying do nothing, I'm saying survive so we can pick up the pieces. The incredible stupidity and arrogance of our "leaders" is such that it will lead to nothing but destruction. We can try to stop them, but I'm of the opinion that it is already too late. The United States is done. All we can do is try to reach people, and once the population is educated enough, and our message has saturated the thoughts of every thinking American (whose numbers we have multiplied greatly), then we can effect meaningful change.

As it is, we are playing the influence peddling game (every time you call your congressman, you are lobbying, just like members of any trade union), working a corrupt system from within. Though they may not be that smart or well organized, these aren't boy scouts we're dealing with. They are after power, and they mean it. I don't think we will be able to acquire the needed clout to crush them before the nation collapses, nor do I find use of such means to be in line with the non-aggression principle (even though it is in self defense).

This is why I tend to advocate that people do their best to understand what is going on out there and position yourself to profit from it. Use that money to go off grid, and simply vanish from their world. Move out into the country and grow your own crops, barter for whatever you can't make yourself, perhaps even learn to produce some barter item (I make mead, for example). I myself am almost to the point where I can manage that. I already have the land, with good neighbors, crops, and a good water source. All I really lack is sustainable power, which I'm working on putting together now. I'll also be building an Earthship as the money comes in, with will make it so I don't even need to go outside if I don't want to.

While I continue to support the movement in spirit and on the ground, I find that the best use of my money is ensuring that I come out on top of all this madness. Once I'm there, then I can help to establish sensible policy in a new government, and fight tyranny with a more powerful force than any gun or bomb . . . real money.

 

[enjerth]

This quote caught my eye.


Seems they got around that by authorizing a private entity to issue a fiat currency.

How can you transfer authority to someone if you don't have that authority?

They didn't have the authority, and so they cannot transfer that authority. It's illegitimate.

 

[Dieseler]

I doubt it is about wealth, they already have that, they want absolute CONTROL.

Damnit, I read this whole thread just to get to this point and see you beat me to it.

Money is an illusion.
The economy is an illusion.
Complete and total control is what they desire.
If you can't see that, well quite frankly in my opinion you are as blind as a bat.
The net is cast and they are drawing it in real slow...
Am I insane?
I really believe this.

 

[acptulsa]

The net is cast and they are drawing it in real slow...
Am I insane?
I really believe this.

Not insane. Crazy like a fox, perhaps. Not insane.

 

[jkm1864]

The bankers are not going to get China. They are not thinking long term as a unit. They are thinking about the next $100 million bonus. This is not some elaborate conspiracy, this is looting by the financial/political elite that is impoverishing America, and will eventually lead to fewer ultra-rich in America.

I think the Russian collapse is what can be expected. Huge state industries that employ millions ceasing operations, millions dependent on government subsidies suddenly left with nothing, etc.

Yeah I can see it now the government stops all welfare checks then the welfare crowd goes a raping and a pillaging in the middle class neighborhoods. I sure am glad I have plenty of ammo because I might have to fight off the zombie hordes screaming change....

 

[slacker921]

a retired Merrill Lynch broker is saying the bond market is what we should have our eye on...

 

[Carson]

Jon Stewart ask one of his guest something like, "So the economy is like we are in a plane above the Andes and going down. Like just where are we. At 20,000 feet or what?"

Anyway something like that.



I would think the people that control the fiat money have the ability to create a mild panic and collapse for some, like those that are willing to accept their plans for a New World Order.

At the same time they could create a protracted downturn for those that stand up to their tyranny like the way the, "We the People" of California did with Proposition 187.

No matter how you want to exercise your freedom to self-determination, they can undo your efforts. No matter how much real money or real assets you put up they can fire up YOUR presses and print up YOUR own money and see to it that it ends up in the hands of those that will oppose you.

The thing is they don't spend their money to get done what they want done, they have people in governments spend their citizens money to do it. Then the government borrows the money from them. The, "We the People's" of the world get stiffed with the bill.


In essence they beat you with your own stick.
In essence they beat you with your own stick.
In essence they beat you with your own stick.

Ask any Californian. We once led the nation with our economy and our education system, among other things. I suppose we still do but we lead it in the other direction now.

 

[american.swan]

They railroaded this guy into prison soon after he made this speech. If anyone who reads it sees no extremely well organized and executed conspiracy, I prescribe a swift boot in the arse. Bosso

Great read. One problem I have is that the speech states 1993. Yet he wasn't pushed into prison until 2002. Now explain to me how that was "railroaded...into prison soon after he made this speech" ???

 

[andrewh817]

Bureaucrats aren't smart enough to pull off any "conspiracies." Do you honestly think the same people that brought you the Katrina aid and the DMV can orchestrate a mass conspiracy?

They themselves aren't smart enough but that's what their money is for. And Katrina aid?? They didn't want to spend money on that...... it's not like they tried and failed they just didn't try at all.

 

[Bossobass]

Great read. One problem I have is that the speech states 1993. Yet he wasn't pushed into prison until 2002. Now explain to me how that was "railroaded...into prison soon after he made this speech" ???

The quote of Traficant's speech (which was delivered to an empty House), was copied and archived by more than a few people after it was delivered. Although the speech was broadcast live on C-Span, the coverage was cut short and abruptly switched to coverage of an unrelated subject.

The current Congressional Record of the speech is vastly different from the actual speech submitted in writing and delivered by Traficant.

Traficant was indicted in 2001. The FBI investigation took 6 years.

Traficant's guilt is impossible to determine from the "reliable" facts on the record. Traficant vehemently denies doing anything wrong, and there is a complete lack of hard evidence against him. Traficant was convicted exclusively on the testimony of others. All the key witnesses had their own problems with the government, in each case they (or a close relative) was in trouble with the government on other charges. There were no video or audio tapes catching the Representative in any illegal act, there were no documents pointing to his guilt, and there were no Traficant fingerprints on anything. In recent Congressional bribery cases the FBI has relied on video and audio tapes which have documented the crime(s), but in this case there are no such tapes even though the FBI built their case over a long, six year period.

There's a book that exhaustively examines the evidence, witnesses, the Fed judge who should have recused herself for a conflict of interest, but didn't, Congress' expulsion of Traficant, etc., etc.

http://www.legalethicsandreform.com/hm_pg26.html

I'm originally from Pittsburgh, not far from Youngstown, Ohio, (Traficant's district) and Traficant was immediately targeted on local news coverage, which basically depicted him as a criminal lunatic.

Trust me, he was immediately targeted, a sham case built against him over 7 years, while local press continually cast him in a bad light, culminating in an indictment in 2001.

Bosso

 

[Carson]

Great speech and a good post Bossobass.

I printed it out and book marked it.

1993. He sure was kicking some butt way back then.