I've decided that a collapse is not imminent.

[Zeeder]

There is no way the elite are all on the same side.

As true conservative/libertarian types, we know one thing to be absolutely true: The government and especially a socialist one is completely unworkable. It is slow and incompetent regardless of motive behind it. It doesn't matter if it's shadow government or not.

Secondly, as austrian economists have pointed out "You can't repeal economic law". If these all powerful shadowy elite people were really competant Schiff and Paul wouldn't have been able to predict anything. They could stop it all on a dime.

 

[Bossobass]

I personally try to just look at the facts:

1971: Removal of the dollar from the Bretton-Woods gold standard.

1972 Nixon visits China:

During the talks with Zhou, Nixon also made what amounted to a general security guarantee for China. Noting that during the South Asian crisis he had been ready to "warn the Soviet Union against undertaking an attack on China," Nixon went even further, declaring that the "US would oppose any attempt by the Soviet Union to engage in aggressive action against China."

1974: Vietnam War ends. Lobbying to reinstate Most Favored Nation status to China begins.

1980: MFN status for China restored.

1978-1983: 40 million tons of steel production is lost:

THE 1980s were a horrible time for the American steel industry. The big integrated producers were buffeted in quick succession by three blows: a slump in demand; the growth of cheap mini-mills that use electric furnaces to make finished steel out of scrap; and a strong dollar that dampened exports and encouraged imports. Resulting cuts took 40m tons (one third of the total) out of production capacity and led to a 60% chop in the workforce. Industry-wide losses peaked at over $4 billion in 1986.

1989-1998: Military secrets given to China:

A nuclear weapons scientist, who has sought anonymity "to keep my position and keep supporting my family," has informed NewsMax.com that the Clinton administration has, in fact, aggressively sought to provide China with some of the nation's most closely guarded nuclear weapons technology.

1974 to present: NAFTA, WTO, CBI, CAFTA spell disaster for US textiles:

Findings – Trade agreements have influenced the production, manufacturing, and sourcing of textile and apparel products. Small- and large-scale restructuring of the industries of the world are required in response to the changes in trade of textiles and apparel. As a result of the Multi-Fiber Agreement (MFA) 1974, Agreement on Textiles and Clothing (ATC) 1994, NAFTA 1994, and the transitional program of the WTO of 1995 global sourcing had re-directed the course of US textiles and apparel trade markets to low cost offshore locations at the expense of US jobs.

1945-Present: The EU is constructed, the Euro is born and the possibility of an EU army is discussed:
http://europa.eu/abc/history/index_en.htm

The automobile industry was bargained away through agreements with Japan, Germany and Korea (all 3 of whom have strict trade barriers on US auto imports) to allow free access to the US market in exchange for huge US military presence in those countries.

2007 to Present: The economic 'meltdown' gives rise to discussion of a new world reserve currency.

1910 to Present: The BP/Shell/Exxon/Mobil monopoly on oil, made possible by the mammoth expansion of the CIA/US military, which has been financed by trillions of dollars of US deficit spending and interest payments on that debt and agreement with OPEC to transact all worldwide oil sale in dollars only.

The list goes on, including the rise of the UN, but the plan and direction are impossible to deny.

The globalists succeed because they never take no for an answer and they never stop moving toward the goal.

The dollar is doomed... period. Americans will be the last people on earth to realize this fact. Even 18 year olds in China laughed out loud at Geithner when he attempted to perpetuate the 'strong dollar', 'safe investment US Treasuries' BS story.

IMHO, there is one single fly in the ointment: Ron Paul. I honestly believe that the global plan has been accelerated due to the unexpected and huge success of the RP '08 campaign.

One glaring piece of evidence is the acceleration of the 'zero reserve requirement' clause of the 2006 Financial Services Regulatory Relief Act in the 2008 Emergency Economic Stabilization Act from an effective date of Oct 1, 2011 to a retroactively effective date of Oct 1, 2008, amid the panic of the financial 'meltdown'.

If the facts are as I obviously see them, and if HR 1207 ever comes to a vote, expect to see the unleashing of the biggest propaganda campaign ever, in conjunction with American Idol/Anna Nicole Smith/OJ/Terrorism/political scandal distractions like you've never witnessed before.

Meanwhile, where there is an acceleration of plans, there is usually gross mistakes. This leaves opportunity for a Bill like HR 1207, as well as evidence for prosecution.

In any case, 'imminent' is certainly the word I would use.

Bosso

 

[AuH20]

Going back to my bizarre detour about a lurking cabal controlling things, heres a primer on William Cooper. Some people call him a madman but they don't let madmen become high level Naval Intelligence officers:

http://www.rense.com/general69/coop.htm

In the article referenced above, entitled Majestytwelve, Cooper's words make the hair on anyone's head stand up:

"The following is fact. It is not a theory it is a genuine conspiracy. I witnessed the Top Secret/Magic documents from which this information is excerpted while a member of the United States Navy attached to the Intelligence Briefing Team of Admiral Bernard Clarey, Commander in Chief of the United States Pacific Fleet.

"I certify that the following information is true and correct to the best of my memory and the research that I have accomplished. I will swear to it in any court of Law.

"I can produce the names of approximately 38 U.S. Navy officers and enlisted men who witnessed these documents while in the service of their countryI can produce the names of approximately 80 others whom I suspect have witnessed these same documents. I will not reveal the names except in a court of Law that is willing to prosecute the People and organizations involved in the conspiracy to overthrow the government of the United States of America to bring about a socialist totalitarian world government."

After Cooper went to great lengths to add authenticity and credibility to his discovery while in the military, he went on to delineate the intentions of the diabolical forces behind the secret military documents.

"Many years ago I had access to a set of documents that I eventually realized was the plan for the destruction of the United States of America and the formation of a socialist totalitarian world government. The plan was contained within a set of Top Secret documents with the title "MAJESTYTWELVE". There was no space between majesty and twelve. The term honored the planned placement of ultimate power in a body of wise men who are destined to rule the world as the disciples of a Messiah front man. This "Messiah will serve as a buffer between the wise men and the sheeple. I discovered these documents between 1970 and 1973 while I was a member of the Intelligence Briefing Team of the Commander in Chief of the United States Pacific Fleet.

"MAJESTYTWELVE was in a tall thin font style...imagine the title squeezed together between the M and E with all of the letters stretched vertically. The key to access was a Top Secret (Q) (SCI) security clearance with the compartmentalization of "MAJIC" (not magic). I cannot remember the exact font except that it is a tall thin version of San Serif... the exact name escapes me after all these years... but it is a key to access.

"The plan outlined the formation of a world totalitarian socialist government. It is to be ruled by a behind-the-scenes council of wise men. A so-called benevolent dictator, will be presented as the Messiah.

"The Constitution for the United States of America and its Bill of Rights will be scrapped. A parliamentary form of government will take its place. All military forces and individuals are to be disarmed except for an internal police force which will carry only the minimum weapons needed to maintain internal order."

There are tiers of this conspiratorial order:

"It is a largely 'open' conspiracy, in that much of its membership, structure, methods, and operations, are matters of public record, however scattered and obscure. Its manner of coordination is atypical. Two nuclei - the elite core of the Wall Street clique (orbiting the House of Rockefeller) and the elite core of the European financial clique (orbiting the House of Rothschild) - coordinate this global conspiracy by waging psychological warfare on the rest of the conspirators, telling each no more than is necessary for him to fulfill his designated role, often with explicit recognition neither of his role, nor of the unarticulated rules that govern him.

"Thus, the overwhelming bulk of the conspirators do not know, but only suspect, that they are part of and in service to 'a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they had better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it."

His dire predictions are extremely relevant today:

As Cooper ponders the fate of America and the world, his 1997 words appear to be coming true as we enter 2006.

"There will be no individual Rights only privileges. These will be granted or denied at will by the world supra government. All property is to be owned by the State. There will be a redistribution of wealth. They plan to eliminate class differences and reduce the standard of living to a lower level in the advanced nations, such as the United States, and to a higher standard of living in the so-called third world nations.

"This leveling of the standard of living will be accomplished through a global economic collapse which is in its beginning stages. The economic collapse will fulfill the goal of Marx and Engles' Communist Manifesto mandating the elimination of the middle class. The graduated income tax was the first implementation of this process and is one of the planks of the Communist Manifesto. NAFTA and GATT are a part of this process encouraging industry to move into third-world nations in order to exploit cheap labor.

"All existing religions will disappear. The only religion will be the state religion (humanism or illuminism).

"All County and State governments will be eliminated and replaced with regional government. These regional governments (Home Rule) are already in place. Regionalism is gradually taking control throughout America.

"There will be no more cash. Trade will be accomplished by a system of computer credits with accounts accessed through debit cards or computer chip implants. The cards or implants will also serve as personal identification, drivers license, and etc. When this is completed the human race will be shackled to a computer in a never ending cycle of debt. No action or movement will ever again be private."

 

[acptulsa]

IMHO, there is one single fly in the ointment: Ron Paul. I honestly believe that the global plan has been accelerated due to the unexpected and huge success of the RP '08 campaign.

I didn't credit us, but I've been wondering at their reckless speed myself. In any case, they do seem intent on chipping at the pillars until the roof is actually falling.

If the facts are as I obviously see them, and if HR 1207 ever comes to a vote, expect to see the unleashing of the biggest propaganda campaign ever, in conjunction with American Idol/Anna Nicole Smith/OJ/Terrorism/political scandal distractions like you've never witnessed before.

Yes, and it has begun. It just isn't the expected defense of the Fed, but rather the selling of a new world currency. We can only hope that they can't get China on board with their plans for that.

In any case, 'imminent' is certainly the word I would use.

I think anyone who bets against the possibility is likely to wind up in trouble.

 

[mczerone]

Going back to my bizarre detour about a lurking cabal controlling things, heres a primer on William Cooper. Some people call him a madman but they don't let madmen become high level Naval Intelligence officers:

http://www.rense.com/general69/coop.htm

In the article referenced above, entitled Majestytwelve, Cooper's words make the hair on anyone's head stand up:


There are tiers of this conspiratorial order:


His dire predictions are extremely relevant today:

So we're not going to debate this with verifiable facts, then?

I predict that the U.S. is going to be made into a 3rd world country because China has pleased our alien overlords (teh grehys), while the U.S. made a deal with a false-flag Lucifer who was really a double agent for teh grehys.

I read it off of some metallic plates in a magic hat I found in Lake Banneville, but then I traded the hat for bus fare home, so I don't have any proof, but I swear Bill Cooper could vouch for the veracity before he died.


P.S.: Are there "shadow ops"? Sure, but they don't matter as long as the central government is a powerful enough body to conceal it and create plausible deniability. Until we win the fight for Liberty, the UFO/NWO/Illuminati/9-11 issues are all just evidence of the evils of government power and the status of these debates won't change, regardless of the underlying truth of any issues, with the Central government in place. However, in spreading the message of Liberty, it is best to stick to the PROVABLE and EVIDENT examples, like the collapse of the dollar, the massive warfare/welfare state, and the civil abuses to which we all are subject.

 

[muh_roads]

I don't think we'll start seeing America's final days until the majority of baby boomers are on teh SS Medicare tit. 5-10 years IMO. In the meantime green energy is our last and final bubble.

 

[AuH20]

So we're not going to debate this with verifiable facts, then?

I predict that the U.S. is going to be made into a 3rd world country because China has pleased our alien overlords (teh grehys), while the U.S. made a deal with a false-flag Lucifer who was really a double agent for teh grehys.

I read it off of some metallic plates in a magic hat I found in Lake Banneville, but then I traded the hat for bus fare home, so I don't have any proof, but I swear Bill Cooper could vouch for the veracity before he died.


P.S.: Are there "shadow ops"? Sure, but they don't matter as long as the central government is a powerful enough body to conceal it and create plausible deniability. Until we win the fight for Liberty, the UFO/NWO/Illuminati/9-11 issues are all just evidence of the evils of government power and the status of these debates won't change, regardless of the underlying truth of any issues, with the Central government in place. However, in spreading the message of Liberty, it is best to stick to the PROVABLE and EVIDENT examples, like the collapse of the dollar, the massive warfare/welfare state, and the civil abuses to which we all are subject.

This information is certainly not gospel without any hard evidence. It's a theory that is backed by circumstantal evidence. However, would it not hurt to possibly consider that this warning may contain remnants of the truth? What I do know for certain is that information passed along by our representative government has been shown to be patently false. What could be their motive? This is where the work of the late Bill Cooper comes in. We need to comprehend what we're aligned against. Obviously, I wouldn't be adding this controversial info into a political platform if I was a politician.

 

[Zippyjuan]

Just a question- if the goal of the elites is to accumilate wealth, how does destroying the economy beneifit them? IF the economy is strong then there is more wealth to be created and they too can collect even more.

 

[Dr.3D]

Just a question- if the goal of the elites is to accumilate wealth, how does destroying the economy beneifit them? IF the economy is strong then there is more wealth to be created and they too can collect even more.

I doubt it is about wealth, they already have that, they want absolute CONTROL.

 

[acptulsa]

Just a question- if the goal of the elites is to accumilate wealth, how does destroying the economy beneifit them? IF the economy is strong then there is more wealth to be created and they too can collect even more.

Sell your stock, buy gold, trash the stock market, sell your gold and buy stocks extra cheap.

 

[Zippyjuan]

But you need an improving economy for the stock you buy to be worth anything. How does trashing it help that?

 

[acptulsa]

But you need an improving economy for the stock you buy to be worth anything. How does trashing it help that?

Leaves it nowhere to go but up.

They hope.

The cautious ones were weeded out. A great many of them today are at least as reckless as Cheney. Besides, what do they care? If it doesn't recover, they still have their gold.

 

[AuH20]

Leaves it nowhere to go but up.

They hope.

The cautious ones were weeded out. A great many of them today are at least as reckless as Cheney. Besides, what do they care? If it doesn't recover, they still have their gold.

Speaking of which, has our glorious leader Ron Paul made any headway in the auditing of the gold in Fort Knox? Is it still there? hint. hint.

 

[Zippyjuan]

Gold is worthless if there is nothing to buy with it.

 

[FindLiberty]

What's imminent, or "total"? Would a collapse in 2, 20, or 220 years still qualify?

When the Baby Boomers (born 1946-1964) are all wearing adult diapers, this will be a sign that we are near our end. But who can predict an exact date for the tshtf collapse? How can we say it WON'T happen this weekend?

When the entire Baby Buster generation finally comes after us with sticks and stones 'cause they just can't afford to let us live, then we will have arrived. That date may be ~2025, unless a new false scheme is introduced to string them along...

Keep in mind, all our "new friends" receiving the hyper-inflated paychecks from government bailouts will not go quietly into the night. It's not going to collapse for them anytime soon 'cause gubermint bean counters can just switch to scientific notation to express the huge numbers being printed on their friend's paychecks! Even our old friends looking to collect their SS, retirement and government pensions are going to be a problem for the "managed economy".

There are so many dreams, expectations and promises all getting trashed along the way to the big collapse. How long can our collective will keep it away?

Future post collapse generations may never get free of big brother until they re-discover Liberty and establish some true value to money (after all governments and virtual computer banks crash). Maybe their new scheme will work/last for a while... making Liberty even harder to re-discover.

Liberty was just an experiment after all, maybe it does not work 'cause it's just too easy to kill off.

 

[Chase]

Bureaucrats aren't smart enough to pull off any "conspiracies." Do you honestly think the same people that brought you the Katrina aid and the DMV can orchestrate a mass conspiracy?

This is the main reason I tend to disbelieve complicated conspiracy theories.

 

[FreeMama]

This is all explained in Jekyll people. . . have you read it? You can call it a "conspiracy" if you want but it is just human nature, and history repeating itself.

Please know that the socialists and banksters do NOT care about each other. . . and they will part ways. They are using each other. Nothing more.

 

[american.swan]

This is all explained in Jekyll people. . . have you read it? You can call it a "conspiracy" if you want but it is just human nature, and history repeating itself.

Please know that the socialists and banksters do NOT care about each other. . . and they will part ways. They are using each other. Nothing more.

Interesting, can you explain that a tad bit. I'm not disagreeing. It's nice to see the "elite" disagree.

 

[FreeMama]

Well the way I was interpreting the book was (and I could be wrong I have no idea) that the bankers are not socialists. . . they are USING the socialists. They love the socialists because they spend lots of money etc lol

The socialists need the bankers for their utopian dreams yada yada programs blah blah blah. . . so they get together. They are using each other. Mostly the bankers are using the socialists, and the socialists are idiots LOL.

But the bankers could care LESS about whether socialists meet their goals or not. They could give a crap about social justice. They actually like hopping from one socialist failed experiment to another. . . and this is what they keep doing.

They don't CARE about the money.

This is about RESOURCES, and constant control of those resources.

I think the bankers are drooling over China! That is why I think puppet Geithner is over there telling the Chinese to start adopting more social programs, more government programs, etc etc

They have used us all up! They have used other countries as well. . . over and over and over and over and over.

It has happened SO often in history it is almost a joke.

The only thing is I don't think it has ever happened with a reserve currency on this large of a scale LOL

Bankers will keep the game going as long as they can. . . and then they will move on. Whose next? China? Waaait a minute. . . aren't things moving over there already?

 

[RonPaulalways]

I think the bankers are drooling over China! That is why I think puppet Geithner is over there telling the Chinese to start adopting more social programs, more government programs, etc etc

The bankers are not going to get China. They are not thinking long term as a unit. They are thinking about the next $100 million bonus. This is not some elaborate conspiracy, this is looting by the financial/political elite that is impoverishing America, and will eventually lead to fewer ultra-rich in America.

I think the Russian collapse is what can be expected. Huge state industries that employ millions ceasing operations, millions dependent on government subsidies suddenly left with nothing, etc.