Issue: Personal Liberty: racial segregation & the repeal of civilil rights?

Racism has a geographic topology with well known distribution in the southern states but can occur everywhere and anywhere.

My fear (and I am not closed on the issue) is that Paul’s view of personal rights allows for any personal rights to be enacted as far as they apply to your personal property. If you for instance own a diner, gas station, bathroom or school , then that is your property and you may exercise your right to control what happens on that property as long as it doesn’t harm another human being. He believes (I think but I am not sure) that you do have a right to racially discriminate if that is your belief and the government has no right to impose what he calls “color blindness” upon you. He defends everyone’s rights to discriminate or hold any views as long as they don’t impact on the freedom of others.

I agree with Paul on nearly everything, but I agree with Colbert the constitution is not a suicide pact” I support the constitution because I believe that people like Jefferson and Adams were the modern equivalents Socrates and Plato, but even Jefferson said that the constitution should be a living evolving document, maybe this is an area that does need to break with the constitution ?. A move to repeal it I believe will destroy Pauls chances and hand it the Democrats.

Stormfront.com the white race nationalist site, an example of racially based collectivism , a collectivist group that by Pauls own logic is an organization that is organized around racism , which Paul calls a sin of the heart is mobilizing it members through the internet to support Paul. If you troll through the forum you will see 1000’s of posts about Paul. I have never been to this site before but these folk are organizing in similar ways to the folk here. They are constantly publishing ideas to join Meetup groups etc, the are swarming to online polls and this troubling me.

Should I be troubled if I know that I will probably attend a meet up group with members of the KKK?

Its fine to have theories about how the free market will destroy racism, theoretically these ideas might be correct, but lets be pragmatic , this is about getting him elected and while I believe he can get elected on the rest of the issues this one is his Achilles heal.

Think about it this way, when he does become a bigger threat to the mainstream candidates and the gloves come off how will positions be twisted and used by his opposition.

At the next debate in August what how will he answer this question?. Mr Paul you made a lone dissenting speech on the anniversary of the 1964 Civil Rights do you support the right of individuals to discriminate on the basis of color and would you repeal that act?

How is he going to sell free market ideas on racism in thirty seconds and will the feeding frenzy after his answer destroy his campaign ?
 
lol im not stupid or dishonest just pragmatic

ive spent allot of time like allot of you out there raising hell for the guy.

I hit a road block and identified a risk that I have had a bit of trouble countering , I have been on this bandwagon for a long time and I thought it would be useful to raise it in this forum to get some discussion going so I could better develop my arguments.

So lets not react defensivly lets work out a way around this (potential) land mine.
 
How is he going to sell free market ideas on racism in thirty seconds and will the feeding frenzy after his answer destroy his campaign ?

All he has to do is explain how forced integration has actually hurt the cause for civil rights in america, and that it was actually the government that encouraged and mandated segregation prior to the civil rights movement. He can cite that the war on drugs is much worse for blacks and hispanics and their liberty than forced integration, affirmative action, etc.
 
When any law is made that empowers any races over others than you have just segregated.
 
ctindale, you shouldn't live in fear of Liberty.

People make choices, some good some bad, that's the way life works and the great leveler between the two is not government but consequence.

The racial fears that have separated us have been driven out for the most part; give liberty the opportunity to do the rest.


.
 
I should clarify a tad. The voting rights act was a huge thing because in the south there may have been a larger population of blacks but since they had roadblocks thrown up in front of them to get registered to vote they had to abide by the laws made by a minority. The main things about our constitution was it allowed one man (Or Woman) one vote.

The voting rights act allowed the roadblocks to be removed that allowed the blacks to vote and then their superior numbers allowed them to vote in who or what they wanted. We are all now equal in this regard.

If businesses are wanting to be racist then a law making them conform just causes resentment ancd restraint of trade. If the business wants to be racist and then exclude a big part of their population that spends money then it is risking going bankrupt. If that business owner then realizes that he is wrong and changes his policy then we have made real progress.
 
carl, the only thing i fear is that liberty wont get elected, because fear driven by political spin will stop it, after that I have little fear, fear got us into Iraq in the first place.
 
I consider myself a White Nationalist, we are NOT nazis or in the KKK. I dislike greatly the KKK and NAZI's because they give us a bad image. Most of the people on STormfront(which is not a KKK forum, althought there is a very small minority of people in it, who use the forums):mad:

I hate when people slander us, we are just regular people looking out for OUR race. If you actually read some of the stuff maybe you'd realise that we are right?
Double standard against whites in the media? YES. Affirmitive action is anti white discrimination? YES.

I support Ron Paul because he embodies everything that i wholeheartedly believe in. Not because i want racial segregation.

fuck you and leave forever
 
fuck you! i havent done anything to anyone im a white nationalist. So? get over it, and im not leaving.
 
Personally, I think Ron Paul says it best when he says that when we look through the logic and agendas of groups, we do it at the detriment of individual liberty.

If we show up to any Ron Paul events, we should show up as an individual, expressing our concerns on liberty together. I may not agree with the person next to me on a lot of things, but we do agree on one thing: Ron Paul will ensure that our abilities to express our ideas responsibly without government intervention will not be infringed.

We may be members of particular groups, but when we vote, we vote individually based on principle and ideas (at least we should).
 
fuck you and leave forever
I suppose one problem with organizations based around a concept as pervasive as individual liberty will inevitably attract people so diverse that they hate each other for reasons outside the scope of the organization.

White Nationalism is a perfect example of why force-backed integration of races and cultures does NOT work. It creates animosity. I don't know any white nationalists, but I don't think they would be completely off target if they suggested our media and culture demonize whites, to a degree.
 
Can't we all just get along?

fuck you and leave forever

Legion, aren't you discriminating against him. I don't agree with that movement, but this is a big tent. I don't agree with a lot of the special interest groups that occupy this forum, but I ask no one to leave, because if they are for Ron Paul then the belong on here.

I am starting to think this movement is being weakened by people saying: no 911 truthers, and no God lovers, no anti-affirmative action people. How about we just worry about doing things out there that get Ron Paul votes?

Seriously you guys can be so assinine. I am off to go call delegates in Iowa...What are you doing for Ron Paul today?
 
liberty is tied to reason, it is an essential dependency

how can you trust someone to be any sort of friend in liberty when he tells you up front that he rejects reason outright?
 
You know, I'm finding it hard to believe that the same person who wrote post #21 is the same person who wrote the other posts, all which read more like #22.

LibertyForever, I'll fight for your right to believe whatever you want, but personally I'd rather see the races all intermarry and reproduce so we can move past this whole "racial pride" thing. I find it annoying no matter which race is spouting off about it.
 
legion :)

BRAVO

9/11 is based on reason almost all the other people in the tent are reason based.

and there will be more of them here if you go back to my original post and follow the url to the stormfront forum and read through the posts and there are many more than here I am extremely worried about the white nationalists hijacking the Ron Paul movement.

Liberty forever

I believe that White Nationalism is the worst form of collectivism that exists. We all have the right to our views as individuals but when we form collectives purposely designed to promote our individual rights over another then we harm another persons liberty.

To some extent collectivism in the form positive discrimination has made white people feel discriminated against and has bred resentment, in essence the liberals have tried to socially engineer racial equality and while it hasn’t been completely successful it has promoted racial harmony when compared how things were. This nation is a big tent and we need to fit everyone in it but it isn’t much good if you folk pull down the tent poles on top of the rest of us.

The reality is this country isn’t a “white nation” it’s a racially diverse nation and I want freedom and liberty for everyone inside and outside this nation. White Nationalism is a collect

Austinphish

I appreciate what your saying and Ive been active from the start but I think you should think through all aspects of a campaign this alignment with White Nationalism to me is major weakness that may bring undone everything all of us have done. What are you going to say

Angel

Exactly lets get it all mixed and over with its going to happen anyway

How come the conflict between 21 and 22 ?
 
This is the basic gist of it. Ron Paul has universal appeal all across the political spectrum. There are even some democrats that are jumping ship to the Republican party to vote for him. Also, there are members of the right side of the political spectrum that also support him. And a lot of people in the middle. A candidate with universal appeal symbolizes freedom for everyone.

My fear (and I am not closed on the issue) is that Paul’s view of personal rights allows for any personal rights to be enacted as far as they apply to your personal property.

You disagree with this? Someone's point of view that they hold should not be infringed upon by legislation. That's in the Bill of Rights somewhere. I think Amendment 1.

If you for instance own a diner, gas station, bathroom or school , then that is your property and you may exercise your right to control what happens on that property as long as it doesn’t harm another human being.

Isn't it beautiful? Although I'm sure a diner, gas station, or bathroom that are for public use would still be for public use and would get someone slapped in the head with a lawsuit if you discriminate against someone there. You are not going to have 1960's style discrimination anywhere when Ron Paul is elected.

He believes (I think but I am not sure) that you do have a right to racially discriminate if that is your belief and the government has no right to impose what he calls “color blindness” upon you. He defends everyone’s rights to discriminate or hold any views as long as they don’t impact on the freedom of others.

Exactly. The government doesn't have the right to impose "color blindness" on you. You are allowed in this country to hold any unpopular view that you want. Using them to deny someone else the freedom to eat in a diner or get gas at a particular gas station impacts the other person's freedom. So do you see where you have just invalidated your whole argument here? Would you rather him lock up "Nazis" and "klansmen" because they discriminate? Don't you see that that is, in itself, discrimination?

Should I be troubled if I know that I will probably attend a meet up group with members of the KKK?

Why? I can say with...oh...99.9% certainty that they aren't going to burn any crosses there. They aren't going to lynch anyone. I'm also 99.9% sure that everyone at a Ron Paul meetup would have the same agenda anyway. And that is restoring the nation to it's former greatness as a Constitutional Republic.

Think about it this way, when he does become a bigger threat to the mainstream candidates and the gloves come off how will positions be twisted and used by his opposition.

Incorrectly. Ron Paul is not a racist.

At the next debate in August what how will he answer this question?. Mr Paul you made a lone dissenting speech on the anniversary of the 1964 Civil Rights do you support the right of individuals to discriminate on the basis of color and would you repeal that act?

It would probably be something like this...

ahem...

I support the First Amendment right of every individual in this nation to hold whatever beliefs they choose. The Constitution expressly forbids the federal government to disarage any rights which are maintained by the people in the Ninth Amendment. To attempt to enforce a thought control legislation on Americans is the height of treason to the Constitution and Liberty and the Spirit of America itself. This country was founded upon the idea of freedom, in direct contravention to the beliefs of a tyrannical government. And in answer to the second part of your question, I would just be the President of the United States. A lowly public servant who couldn't do anything without Congressional approval. I wouldn't presume to have the power to repeal a law.

That's how I would answer it, anyway. And I don't know nearly as much about the Constitution as Ron Paul does. Everyone who supports Ron Paul (even klansmen and Nazis and White Nationalists) do so because they love individual freedom. You can't cut huge slices off of Patriot Pie and throw them in the garbage because they have different viewpoints. If that is someone's idea of what a great president should do, Hillary's name will be on the other side of the ballot.

Nothing personal, ctindale. Besides, even if the 1964 Civil Rights Law was repealed, minorities would still have Civil Rights.:)
 
fuck you and leave forever

I am white too and proud of it.. Should I leave? I belong to no roganisation and never will as I have no need to bolster what I know in my heart.. I respect my ancestors. They are why I am here. Discrimination makes sure I don't drink motor oil. Discrimination makes sure i judge people by the value they bring or do not bring to my life. I have full right of associaition and siassociation. I have learned in my fifty years that this ability to discern the good and the bad has gotten me in trouble when ignoring it and safe when paying attention to it. For the most part.

Frankly pal..you are way the eff out of line and a knee jerk.. WTF are you doing here? Explain EXACTLY why he should leave? Because he is proud of his race [black power, jewish exceptionalism].? Should Rasta then, by the same token get the eff gone from here? Jeesh..

Best Regards
Randy
 
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