Issue: Internet: FTC abandons net neutrality

Basically, the problem is this: Network providers like AT&T don't like to build more network capacity, because it costs them money. So lets say they have a 45MBit T3 line to the internet and on that line they have, I don't know, 200 customers with 1.5MBit DSL lines. So obviously these customers can't each be using the full 1.5MBit at once, because 300MBit > 45MBit. That's okay though, because not all 200 customers will want to be using the full bandwidth of their connection at the same time. As long as the total usage during peak hours is less than 45MBit, AT&T doesn't have to spend money to install a faster pipe to the internet.

However, over time network usage tends to go up. When DSL first came around, it was replacing dialup and everybody was just visiting web pages that had text on them. Now everybody is visiting Youtube and using BitTorrent to distribute Ron Paul videos and people are using more bandwidth. Now the problem is, if the amount of data its users are transferring exceeds the capacity of its connection to the rest of the internet, they have to drop some packets. When they do that, the endpoints just resend them, but then they take longer to get there. This is especially a problem with interactive stuff like streaming video. In that case the video gets choppy and customers start complaining. The proper course of action is then for AT&T to open its wallet and build a faster pipe to the internet so that customers will have the bandwidth they paid for.

Except that AT&T *hates* to open its wallet. So what they want to do is, instead of expanding capacity to meet demand, they want Youtube to pay them for priority so that their videos won't be choppy. So then Youtube pays AT&T to keep from going out of business, and instead of dropping Youtube packets, AT&T drops some other packets instead. This makes the problem even worse for anyone who isn't paying this AT&T extortion fee, because now even more of their packets are getting dropped. So all the big companies on the internet, who already paid for *their* internet connections, now have to pay every ISP for *your* internet connections, even though *you* already paid for it. Worse, all the little guys who can't afford this toll get most of their traffic dropped -- and that includes all P2P traffic. So now when you want to go download that Ron Paul DVD using BitTorrent, instead of it taking 4 hours to download, it takes 2 months. And that little company that would have been the next Google can never get started because nobody can use their service when 80% of the packets get dropped.

That's exactly the problem. The cable companies and telcos often have exclusive rights to the right of way, and even when they don't, the government has given them hundreds of billions of dollars in subsidies to build their networks. The rest of the market can't compete with that level of government interference. And when you have a government-created monopoly, the government needs to either regulate it or eliminate it. Net neutrality is choosing to regulating it. Sad as it is, that's probably easier than eliminating it -- at least in the medium term. In the longer term, converting more wireless spectrum to internet access and providing easier access to the public right of way may give competitors an incentive to come into the market, but building anything of that sort would require years of roll out, assuming anyone is even interested in competing with telcos that have already received hundreds of billions of taxpayer dollars in subsidies.

Weren't telcos given $200 billion in subsidies to beef up their infrastructure to something beyond DSL and cable capacity?
http://www.tispa.org/node/14

http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2006/05/12/telcos-lay-billion-goose-egg

http://www.newnetworks.com/scandalquotes.htm
By now, according to Mr. Kushnick, 86 million homes should be wired at 45 Mbps - at least 15 times as fast as the best commonly available D.S.L. service. The count of homes wired at that speed so far is zero.

The phone companies made this promise as Congress was getting ready to pass the 1996 Telecommunications Reform Act, he points out. In return, they received benefits - including tax breaks and changes in state laws lifting limits on their profits - amounting to more than $200 billion, Mr. Kushnick writes. But instead of building the infrastructure, they spent money on more immediately profitable services like plain old copper-wire D.S.L. and hoary long-distance networks, according to the 406-page e-book.

That alone should be reason enough for the government to demand that the baby bells honor their promises.

The "pipes" have already been paid for.
 
Just FYI, Ron Paul is AGAINST government mandated Net Neutrality. And I am glad he is.

Net Neutrality lets the govt gets its greedy little hands on the internet and start regulating it. I don't want that. Ron Paul doesn't want that. It is another example of something that *sounds* like a good idea; but the govt has proven time and time again that they only make things worse.

But don't take my words for it; here is RP on this subject on the house floor:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b7_h_OyTI0

The government already regulates telecommunications and this includes the internet.

This is the root of the problem. You can't have government enforcement of common carrier services, build the carrier infrastructure under government regulation that limits or eliminates competition, then just let go of the reins and hand absolute power over to the companies that you subsidized.

Would you let private companies take over the interstate system? Now that the system is in place, would you just hand over total control of the highways in your state to one company? Then they could charge tolls for you to use "their" roads, even though it was your tax dollars that built "their" roads.
 
The government already regulates telecommunications and this includes the internet.

This is the root of the problem. You can't have government enforcement of common carrier services, build the carrier infrastructure under government regulation that limits or eliminates competition, then just let go of the reins and hand absolute power over to the companies that you subsidized.

Would you let private companies take over the interstate system? Now that the system is in place, would you just hand over total control of the highways in your state to one company? Then they could charge tolls for you to use "their" roads, even though it was your tax dollars that built "their" roads.

All in all, the problem is the telco companies have monopolized the industsry (due to government intervention) and if we just hand over the reigns they have absolute control...as you said.

On the other hand, Government should not be able to tell companies how to offer their service...the market should (and would) do that.

I think the idea proposed earlier, while still intrusive, would end with the best result. But my next question is, what is to prevent telcos from merging and ending up with the same problem? This is the same problem we now have with MSM....the telecommunications act of 1996 allowed companies like newscorp and clear channel to eat up all the indi stations...now we listen/watch/or read one of six companies...(which is, in my opinion, why American has become so polarized and uninformed).


Any thoughts?
 
This is where I get lost. At this point why not just charge more for internet access? If people on average are using more bandwidth then shouldn't the price go up? ISP's are giving away more product.. a simple cost increase should follow. Now that they have increased revenue they can afford the needed upgrades and keep up with demand.
And that's what would happen in a competitive market. Unfortunately, in the government-corrupted market we have, it's more profitable to ration scarcity than to expand capacity and eliminate it.

I think the idea proposed earlier, while still intrusive, would end with the best result. But my next question is, what is to prevent telcos from merging and ending up with the same problem?
The reason why it's a problem with the mainstream news sources is that they were allocated pieces of a scarce resource -- the broadcast spectrum. This limits their competition, because there is only so much spectrum to go around. By contrast, in the right regulatory environment (ie light regulation), competition in the broadband market could be significant enough that even if major players buy each other up, the minute they start doing anything abusive a smaller competitor could show up and provide an alternative.

I also think there is one thing we should do with the broadcast spectrum: Make it 100% internet. If anything else -- television, radio, police and fire departments, military, anything -- needs to use it, just use IP like every other device on the network. IP radios, IPTV, etc. The network could be configured to give certain types of devices priority for the obvious reasons, but right now we waste a massive amount of bandwidth by dedicating pieces of it to purposes that remain unused 99% of the time. Make it packet based rather than frequency range based and we take a major step in reducing scarcity.
 
I think we all agree that government regulation has led to the near monopoly we have in telecommunications. Government regulation, through the DOJ enforcement of anti-trust laws, helped prevent companies from owning too much of the internet backbone.

I found a good description of the evolution of the internet backbone here:
http://www.pff.org/issues-pubs/communications/books/051018Interconnection.pdf


My big question is how do we reverse the monopolistic trend in telecommunications that has led us to the point we are at now?

Government regulation led to conglomeration of the telecoms, but how do we reverse it without government regulations? Can we just lift present regulations and pray that the advantaged companies play fair?
 
Government regulation led to conglomeration of the telecoms, but how do we reverse it without government regulations? Can we just lift present regulations and pray that the advantaged companies play fair?
In my opinion the most damage the government has caused is in the subsidies they provided. Their intent was to provide these corporations with billions of dollars to build a state of the art network -- which they still haven't built, by the way -- and then regulate fair access to it. We already gave them the money to do it. Now the problem is, there are too few competitors for simple deregulation, and no upstart can compete with an incumbent who has received billions in government handouts to build their infrastructure.

The government has made a mess and it needs to clean it up. There are plenty of possible solutions, but none that I see are trivial or capable of restoring competition quickly.

The first thing that needs to be done in any event is to eliminate the distinction and distinct regulations with regard to phone and cable companies. They're both data providers. One provides voice and data over copper and TV over IP and the other provides TV and data over copper and voice over IP. It's all the same, so treat them the same. You might even convince them to compete with each other for once.

Beyond that, an AT&T-style breakup, but into much smaller pieces and with the stipulation that none of them can ever buy each other again, might be of some help. The point being to make it easier for new competitors. The problem right now is that if you have a company like Comcast who is the cable provider for several states, and you roll out a high speed network in one city to compete with them, they're capable of using the profits they make in other cities to undercut you in the city you build in and then drive you out of business and buy whatever infrastructure you built on the cheap. If you chop them into, say, county-sized parts then it's a lot harder for them to do that. It also gives the new baby bells an incentive to build a competing network in neighboring counties, since they're no longer the same company.

Another alternative that would no doubt not go down very well around here would be to nationalize them or, better yet, hand them over to the states. The analogies between network infrastructure and roads are too many to list. I know many here believe in private roads, but it is something to consider. The largest drawback would be that stupid politicians would be more inclined to mess with the internet if the infrastructure is government operated -- look at what they do to roads. A different alternative would be to take them out of the profit business. Take the infrastructure, paid for with tax dollars, and give it to an independent not for profit organization with the mandate of charging for fair access and using the money for network maintenance and upgrades. They would not have monopoly status, so if they were doing a crappy job then they would eventually just evaporate as competitors siphon off customers.

A somewhat more market-based solution would be to demand back every cent in subsidies they've ever received, plus interest. The result would be a certain number of bankruptcies, but their infrastructure would still exist and they would simply end up selling it, preferably in pieces as the above, at market rates to startup companies willing to operate it.

There are plenty of options, but not really any that can be devoid of government involvement entirely.
 
If we put the data networks in state hands, I'm afraid innovation would suffer. In the end total quality of service would most likely suffer as well.

I dunno. Maybe the conglomerates could just be broken up the way the Bells and ATT once were.

I just wonder what Ron Paul would have to say about all this. He's the one running, after all.
 
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