Israel media: SC GOP debate one of the most disjointed and unfocussed of all the debates

[Captain Shays]

God protects all His children, Captain, the US included.

Rafi, Israel always had a special place in God's plan and His heart. More so than ANY country including the USA

 

[Captain Shays]

I'm trying to be as accurate as I can with the information I have at my disposal.

What are "zionists" by the way? Can you define those? It sounds like it's used as a curse word.

Is there anything the Iranian leadership can, in theory, do or say that would convince you they want to destroy Israel? I just want to know where you draw the line.

I am a Zionist. I strongly believe that Israel belongs in the land that was promised to them. I want Israel to remain soveriegn in their own country. I want to see Jews being happy to return to the land of their fathers and living and flourishing in the land of milk and honey. BTW I am not a Jew

 

[Occam's Banana]

But I also have right to defend myself, yes, pre-emptively, just like we did in Iraq in 81.

I can't help but wonder - does Iran have a right to "pre-emptively" defend itself against Israel's "pre-emptive" defense of itself?
The doctrine of pre-emptive defense is a double-edged sword - it cuts both ways.

 

[Echoes]

I am a Zionist. I strongly believe that Israel belongs in the land that was promised to them. I want Israel to remain soveriegn in their own country. I want to see Jews being happy to return to the land of their fathers and living and flourishing in the land of milk and honey. BTW I am not a Jew

Most jews are lactose-intolerant.

 

[Rafi]

I can't help but wonder - does Iran have a right to "pre-emptively" defend itself against Israel's "pre-emptive" defense of itself?
The doctrine of pre-emptive defense is a double-edged sword - it cuts both ways.

It is a double edged sword. It sucks. I don't like it. I liked it much better when Iran was friends with us under the Shah. Then the Ayatollah took over and they country lost its mind and went ape. It's a damn shame. I don't want to hurt anybody.

So do they have a right to pre-emptively pre-empt? Sure, I guess. It's a game of chicken at this point. But understand that we really do feel threatened here by any form of an Iranian nuclear program. Call us paranoid, but people have tried to wipe us out before. It's not out of the blue that we feel this way.

It's not smart to threaten Jews armed with nukes worried about their survival.

 

[Begood]

I can't help but wonder - does Iran have a right to "pre-emptively" defend itself against Israel's "pre-emptive" defense of itself?
The doctrine of pre-emptive defense is a double-edged sword - it cuts both ways.

^^ Post of the year.

Sadly, the middle east need a major war.. Like Europe needed major wars to find peace. US intervention and foreign aid just postpone the inevitable just like the printing of money or QEs postpone the correction of the financial markets. Sadly the more they wait, the bigger the war will be because both sides get more stronger over time.

I don't think that Israel will survive that one, it is not 1967, we are in an era of missiles and that is not good news for Israel.

In my opinion, the only thing Israel can do to survive is get out completly of the west bank, remove all settlements, give back east jerusalem to the palestinians and end the blocus of Gaza. After that, if they still receive rockets, they will have all the rights in the world to retaliate with full force.

 

[Captain Shays]

It is a double edged sword. It sucks. I don't like it. I liked it much better when Iran was friends with us under the Shah. Then the Ayatollah took over and they country lost its mind and went ape. It's a damn shame. I don't want to hurt anybody.

So do they have a right to pre-emptively pre-empt? Sure, I guess. It's a game of chicken at this point. But understand that we really do feel threatened here by any form of an Iranian nuclear program. Call us paranoid, but people have tried to wipe us out before. It's not out of the blue that we feel this way.

It's not smart to threaten Jews armed with nukes worried about their survival.

We do understand that there is a difference between the leadership of Iran and their generall population most of whom I don't think want to go killing a bunch of innocent Jews

 

[eduardo89]

If Israel goes to war with Iran I will volunteer to serve and fight.

For Iran.

 

[Rafi]

If Israel goes to war with Iran I will volunteer to serve and fight.

For Iran.

Cute. I actually will be fighting as I am in the reserves, rather than just trying to impress people on forums with my masculinity.

Ron Paul 2012!

 

[eduardo89]

Cute. I actually will be fighting as I am in the reserves, rather than just trying to impress people on forums with my masculinity.

Ron Paul 2012!

I did a year of compulsory military service. Hated it. But I'd be willing to fight for Iran against Israel as a volunteer if it came to it.


Just like you believe you'd be fighting for your right to your holy sites, I'd be fighting to liberate my holy land from the oppressive racist Zionist regime that is occupying them.


Ron Paul 2012!

 

[Danke]

What a character. Wants an attack that will result in death of innocent civilians, all bescause one of the ruling elite talked about wanting to see the state of Israel gone someday.

 

[eduardo89]

What a character. Wants an attack that will result in death of innocent civilians, all bescause one of the ruling elite talked about wanting to see the state of Israel gone someday.

Ruling elite? Ahmadinejad doesn't even have any real power in Iran. He's not even in the top 10.

1. Supreme Leader
2-13. Guardian Council (decide what bills get heard in parliament, who gets to run for president and parliament, can veto and nullify laws, serves as constitutional court)
14. President

The president doesn't even have control of the regular military, the Revolutionary Guard or the Basij paramilitary forces. He is virtually powerless when it comes to important decisions. He doesn't set foreign policy, monetary policy, he doesn't have veto powers, he can't introduce bills into parliament, he doesn't control energy policy, etc.

 

[Danke]

Ruling elite? Ahmadinejad doesn't even have any real power in Iran. He's not even in the top 10.

1. Supreme Leader
2-13. Guardian Council (decide what bills get heard in parliament, who gets to run for president and parliament, can veto and nullify laws, serves as constitutional court)
14. President

The president doesn't even have control of the regular military, the Revolutionary Guard or the Basij paramilitary forces. He is virtually powerless when it comes to important decisions. He doesn't set foreign policy, monetary policy, he doesn't have veto powers, he can't introduce bills into parliament, he doesn't control energy policy, etc.

O.K. just elites then, whatever.

 

[mczerone]

this is Israel Media who do you think pushes the idea that Paul is unelectable? they want war with Iran and Paul doesn't.

Correction: Paul doesn't want the U.S. dictating what Isreal does. The warmongers are trying to control Isreal's foreign policy, telling them NOT to attack Iran because the pawns aren't in place yet, and the U.S. should lead the charge.

Paul's policy says that Isreal should be able to attack Iran if Isreal's govt determines that such actions are warranted.

 

[GarrettDLinger]

I understand Jewish history and whatnot but this victimization act seems like a way to deflect the blame Jewish people have in some of their history. No race is above reproach and notwithstanding I would not say that the state of Israel is somehow always innocent in regards to the tensions in the region. You should look at the causes of instability and try to find a way to bring peace to the region as opposed to having a bloody and unnecessary war.

 

[donnay]

Just so you know, Paul supporters in Israel (and yes, there are quite a few) myself included, are indeed itching for war with Iran for no other reason than the Ayatollah has expressly indicated the he wishes to annihilate us in public statements (i.e. - "Israel should be wiped off the map," Ahmadinejad '05). So just because we want to kick the crap out of the Ayatollah doesn't mean we want American help. I want us (Israel, not America) to do it alone because this is a Jewish issue and America has nothing to do with it. Plus, you guys have no money. We have a budget surplus.

I really don't give a crap how Obama treats Netanyahu because Netanyahu deserves it. They're both men with humongous egos and no vision. I just want to hear from a leader that he'll keep America out of the middle east, money and diplomats, so we can take care of business here and you guys can be left out of the whole matter.

First off if Ahmadinejad was so bad and so ruthless, why do more than 20,000 Jews live in peace in Iran?

7/14/2007



Israel seeks to encourage Iran’s Jews to immigrate

9 July 2007

BBC Monitoring Middle East

Text of report by web version of Israeli newspaper Ma’ariv on 8 July
[Report by Eli Bradenstein: "Israel to Iranian Jews: Immigration At Any Price"]

Israel is trying to find new ways of encouraging immigration from Iran in the wake of a lack of desire on the part of thousands of Iranian Jews to leave. In order to do this, an expatriate group of Iranian Jewish donors, which is behind a special fund to encourage aliyah from the land of the ayatollahs, is now offering approximately $60,000 to every Jewish family that makes comes to Israel, which will be in addition to the regular absorption basket.

Only a few months ago, the fund decided to grant an incentive of $5,000 to every new immigrant, but this did not persuade Iranian Jews, many of whom are comfortably off, to leave.

The fund has now decided to double the sum for every new immigrant, and to offer $10,000 in the hope that it will persuade Iranian Jews to come to Israel.

If the Jews do decide to come to Israel as whole families, they will also receive thousands more dollars: $2,000 for a head of family and $1,500 for a mother and each of her children. More than $1 million has been invested in the fund, and it is operated by means of one of the major aliyah organizations in Israel. Unconnected with the grants, the new immigrants also receive the regular absorption basket like other immigrants, as well as mortgages on easy terms.

The news of the grant has been published on an Israeli Internet site in Persian, which has been launched in order to convey vital information on the process of aliyah. It has also been reported on Israel Radio’s Persian-language service, and is being passed on by means of various organizations and relatives to Jews in Iran.

Some 20,000 Jews live in Iran, mostly in Tehran. It is the largest remaining Jewish community in the Arab states. According to reports, many of them are comfortably off and free to practise their religion and provide religious education for their children. Given that, most are not interested in leaving Iran. However, Iran’s Jews visit Israel a lot to see their relatives, and Israelis of Iranian origin pay family and business visits there. Iranian Jews who live in the United States also make frequent visits to family in Iran.

“In contrast to the previously laughable sum, we are now talking about a sizeable sum, and if a whole family decides to make aliyah, they will receive tens of thousands of dollars – a serious sum that could really persuade Jews to leave there and come to Israel, and assist in their absorption here,” Ma’ariv was told by sources that are dealing with Iranian immigrants.

Source: NRG Ma’ariv website, Tel Aviv, in Hebrew 8 Jul 07

 

[eduardo89]

First off if Ahmadinejad was so bad and so ruthless, why do more than 20,000 Jews live in peace in Iran?

Iran's Jews also have a dedicated seat in parliament to represent thir interests.

 

[tony m]

In 2010 I had an experience that had me put the effort forth to understand faith and foreign policy.

Faith and Foreign Policy

In January 2010, I’m sitting with two people, one a national activist and the other local. I bring up the Middle East and the local lays out a complete strategy of bombing and occupying country after country in that region. And it is discussed with such precision I am dumbfounded. I responded, “Why?” And to make things short, he states, ‘to satisfy the Bible’. I am further in awe and respond, ‘what do you mean?’ He states that, ‘Israel needs to take over the Middle East so Jesus will come back to earth’. I was absolutely speechless and the only response I could muster was, “I thought Jesus was for peace.”

So I call some folks who I believe know more about this topic than I do. I told them what I experienced and they stated that I just had a conversation with a Christian fundamentalist.

I feel a need to understand more so I spend some time in 2010 trying to grasp some basics of Faith and the Middle East.

I concluded that there is a percentage of Muslims that interprets the Koran, a percentage of Jews that interpret the Torah, and a percentage of Christians that interprets the Bible. Then there are those Muslims, Jews, and Christians that do not interpret. Each faith has their own beliefs. Is the Christian faith better than the Muslim faith? Is it good vs evil? I cannot comment from the Muslim or Jewish point of view because I don’t know it well enough to be able to. However, I am Catholic and do have influence of the Bible.

Anybody who is oppressed uses faith for strength to survive, and power to fight for that survival. I am Polish and faith was a big part of my recent ancestors way to cope. Faith was used in my terms described because Poland and its people were oppressed.

Presently the Arab nations have 100 years of oppression driving their faith. And the Koran interpreters of the Middle East are like Fox news the way they spread mainstream hype.

We have the Christians fearing that Sharia law is going to take over and are using the Bible to counter that.

To me, all the people, from those three faiths, that are interpreting, are in the same boat. They each want their own faith to be the driving force for their foreign policy.

So what is the core cause?

I believe the heart core issue is modern history.

The British intervened through their empire and with the Treaty of Versailles from the late 1800's and early 1900's, which set the stage of conflict that lasts til today.

Israel was established through British order and push. The people that were present on the soil of the middle east at that time, fought against it. That makes sense.

Racism

When I asked people why Israel was "given" land to establish a nation, the responses have been, 'because that is their ancestral homeland and there was genocide performed against them.'

What I conclude from that is, that Native Americans should be "given", let's say, the New England states for them to establish their nation. This is because that is their ancestral homeland and they had genocide performed against them.

They are to be allowed to have nukes and could protect their airspace.

Those that are for Israel being established as a nation in the manner it was, must agree to this plan for the Native American Solution. For those that would not, this would be racism.

The Question

This put me on the spot to have to ask myself, that if I am for Israel getting a complete, real, sovereign nation, then the Native Americans must be given one also. Isn't favoring one race over another, racism?

Faith and Governing

I concluded that there is no separation of church and state for faith interpreters of any faith. Using separation of church and state, a person who uses faith as the basis for foreign policy decisions loses credibility if they also state they believe the Constitution should be followed.

Terrorists

For me, research has the people of the middle east responding. They are the effect, not the cause. It seems the establishment of Israel is the cause.

So what to do?
Getting the answer to the question of the Native Americans parallel with Israel establishment is key.

 

[Korey Kaczynski]

I can see a legit reason why he'd be concerned, though, as Iran probably has done treacherous things towards Israel. The situation could probably resolved diplomatically, though. The advantage of free trade is that it spreads western culture and that makes Israel and the US safer in the long term.

 

[Korey Kaczynski]

Iran's Jews also have a dedicated seat in parliament to represent thir interests.

And the youth in Iran HATES Iran's government. IF anything Israel should just capitalize on that. I honestly see Iran as a potential ally in the future if their youth becomes more westernized, which is possible thru free trade and internet activism (like the green revolution).