Israel Bombards Lebanon As Full-Scale War Looms

[Brian4Liberty]

Israel Bombards Lebanon As Full-Scale War Looms

Just weeks before the US election, Israel has massively escalated its attacks on southern Lebanon, killing nearly 300 (including many civilians) in just one day. Lebanon's Hezbollah militia is firing back as Israel warns of an imminent ground invasion. Will "wartime" Vice President Harris gain in the polls? Also today...Republicans cave yet again on the latest budget "deal."

Watch all speeches from the recent Ron Paul Institute Conference: https://rumble.com/playlists/NnA_ELdHEGo

 

[osan]

Bennie was unequivocal at the UN. He was clever, methinks in taking a stick and carrot approach. No idea whether he was sincere, though he put on a good display.

He drew a clear line in the sand and basically threatened somewhere on the order of 600+ million Arabs. It will be interesting to see how this all shakes out.

 

[WarriorLiberty]

Bennie was unequivocal at the UN. He was clever, methinks in taking a stick and carrot approach. No idea whether he was sincere, though he put on a good display.

He drew a clear line in the sand and basically threatened somewhere on the order of 600+ million Arabs. It will be interesting to see how this all shakes out.

I think things in the Middle East region are about to get further interesting.
Even with Yemen..

Iran/Yemen arent Iraqi like countries of the 90s.

 

[osan]

I think things in the Middle East region are about to get further interesting.
Even with Yemen..

Iran/Yemen arent Iraqi like countries of the 90s.

.

I feel sadly compelled to agree with you on this. I'm not confident that the Israeli decisions concerning Hezbollah were wise, but I don't live there, so I could be mistaken.

I do, however, fully support their campaign to eradicate hamas. I feel terribly for the children of Gaza, but the adults have left the Israelis with a very unfortunate choice. Were I in Israel's shoes, I would be doing the same, mostly.

However, one thing I might do differently would be to allow all female Gazans to leave, whether it be to go to Egypt, Israel, Jordan, Syrian, what have you. I would imprison all Gazan males in Gaza, then proceed to reduce the entire area to rubble, after which I would send in troops to cleanse and finish that nonsense once and for all. I would thereafter annex Gaza as a spoil of war. Hamas started it, Israel should finish it. War is hell, and it ought to be. Fuck all Geneva Conventions and the rot of "civil" warfare. You go to war, you should risk extinction at the hands of your enemy, just as they risk the same. I believe in one rule of engagement: slaughter your enemies until they cry uncle and not a second before. If you have to murder all their children, that is on THEM, not. you. It is shitty and ugly and evil, but it seems to me that human beings understand nothing better than this.

I question God's design.

Daily.

 

[WarriorLiberty]

.

I feel sadly compelled to agree with you on this. I'm not confident that the Israeli decisions concerning Hezbollah were wise, but I don't live there, so I could be mistaken.

I do, however, fully support their campaign to eradicate hamas. I feel terribly for the children of Gaza, but the adults have left the Israelis with a very unfortunate choice. Were I in Israel's shoes, I would be doing the same, mostly.

However, one thing I might do differently would be to allow all female Gazans to leave, whether it be to go to Egypt, Israel, Jordan, Syrian, what have you. I would imprison all Gazan males in Gaza, then proceed to reduce the entire area to rubble, after which I would send in troops to cleanse and finish that nonsense once and for all. I would thereafter annex Gaza as a spoil of war. Hamas started it, Israel should finish it. War is hell, and it ought to be. $#@! all Geneva Conventions and the rot of "civil" warfare. You go to war, you should risk extinction at the hands of your enemy, just as they risk the same. I believe in one rule of engagement: slaughter your enemies until they cry uncle and not a second before. If you have to murder all their children, that is on THEM, not. you. It is $#@!ty and ugly and evil, but it seems to me that human beings understand nothing better than this.

I question God's design.

Daily.

I agree with you on Hamas and why is are NeoCons, Israel blaming Iran for Hamas? its Qatar that had been hosting their officials and commanders..

So why arent they going to punish Qatar for hosting Hamas or even funding Hamas?

Why the blame on Iran?

A number of Hamas rockets weren't very powerfully compared to the Yemeni Rebels..



I fear that after Gaza the Israeli, Far Right Govt now in Israel wont stop it in Gaza...

 

[osan]

I agree with you on Hamas and why is are NeoCons, Israel blaming Iran for Hamas? its Qatar that had been hosting their officials and commanders..

So why arent they going to punish Qatar for hosting Hamas or even funding Hamas?

Your guess is better than mine, I assume.

Why the blame on Iran?

Who can say what the intelligence reveals?

I fear that after Gaza the Israeli, Far Right Govt now in Israel wont stop it in Gaza...

Where else would they go? Annex Lebanon? Attack Syria? Jordan? What are we driving at here?

 

[WarriorLiberty]

Your guess is better than mine, I assume.



Who can say what the intelligence reveals?



Where else would they go? Annex Lebanon? Attack Syria? Jordan? What are we driving at here?

Israel has opened a new front in Lebanon on a war it cannot end

return tens of thousands of displaced settlers to the north. Neither outcome seems imminent

The Zionist state’s two primary strategic goals are to decouple the northern front from Gaza, and return tens of thousands of displaced settlers back to their settlements in occupied northern Palestine.

 

[WarriorLiberty]

Israel was warned years ago.

The return of thousands of displaced settlers will not happen if a war breaks out in the region..

 

[jmdrake]

.

I feel sadly compelled to agree with you on this. I'm not confident that the Israeli decisions concerning Hezbollah were wise, but I don't live there, so I could be mistaken.

I do, however, fully support their campaign to eradicate hamas. I feel terribly for the children of Gaza, but the adults have left the Israelis with a very unfortunate choice. Were I in Israel's shoes, I would be doing the same, mostly.

However, one thing I might do differently would be to allow all female Gazans to leave, whether it be to go to Egypt, Israel, Jordan, Syrian, what have you. I would imprison all Gazan males in Gaza, then proceed to reduce the entire area to rubble, after which I would send in troops to cleanse and finish that nonsense once and for all. I would thereafter annex Gaza as a spoil of war. Hamas started it, Israel should finish it. War is hell, and it ought to be. $#@! all Geneva Conventions and the rot of "civil" warfare. You go to war, you should risk extinction at the hands of your enemy, just as they risk the same. I believe in one rule of engagement: slaughter your enemies until they cry uncle and not a second before. If you have to murder all their children, that is on THEM, not. you. It is $#@!ty and ugly and evil, but it seems to me that human beings understand nothing better than this.

I question God's design.

Daily.

Israel should go after everyone who funded Hamas starting with Benjamen Netanyahu. Even rabid zionist "Rabbi Shmuley" recently admitted Bibi did that.

At 41:45 seconds in, Rabbi Shmuley admits that Netanyahu allowed funding of Hamas through Qatar to "buy off Hamas."



That confirms other sources which say that Netanyahu allowed the funding of Hamas via Qatar to weaken the PLO and to undermine a Palestinian state.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/11/middleeast/qatar-hamas-funds-israel-backing-intl/index.html

Israel had the plans for October 7th a year in advance.

https://apnews.com/article/new-york-times-hamas-attack-israel-gaza-6088cad78f5e4153d671fe9b5b819308

Israel was warned by Israeli, Egyptian and U.S. intelligence that an attack was imminent, yet Netanyahu moved the IDF AWAY from the border with Gaza.

https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-809023

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67082047

https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/13/poli...tial-gaza-clash-days-before-attack/index.html

Here Candace Owens applauded Israel's surgical strike against Hezbollah using the pagers but raised the obvious question of why not use such percision against Hamas? The IDF spokesperson tried to draw a distinction because, supposedly, Hamas was more embeded within the civilian population than Hezbollah. Candace pointed out that was't true. Hamas is in the tunnels and Israel could go into the tunnels if they wanted to. See starting at 48:00 here.



But now Israel is doing bombing that's killing hundreds of civilians in Lebanon. So much for surgical strikes. Also the IDF killed a lot of its own civilian population on October 7th using the Hannibal directive.



This is a brutal and unethical regime (Israel) that's as much of a danger to Jews living in Israel as they are to Hamas terrorists.

 

[wizardwatson]

.

I feel sadly compelled to agree with you on this. I'm not confident that the Israeli decisions concerning Hezbollah were wise, but I don't live there, so I could be mistaken.

I do, however, fully support their campaign to eradicate hamas. I feel terribly for the children of Gaza, but the adults have left the Israelis with a very unfortunate choice. Were I in Israel's shoes, I would be doing the same, mostly.

However, one thing I might do differently would be to allow all female Gazans to leave, whether it be to go to Egypt, Israel, Jordan, Syrian, what have you. I would imprison all Gazan males in Gaza, then proceed to reduce the entire area to rubble, after which I would send in troops to cleanse and finish that nonsense once and for all. I would thereafter annex Gaza as a spoil of war. Hamas started it, Israel should finish it. War is hell, and it ought to be. Fuck all Geneva Conventions and the rot of "civil" warfare. You go to war, you should risk extinction at the hands of your enemy, just as they risk the same. I believe in one rule of engagement: slaughter your enemies until they cry uncle and not a second before. If you have to murder all their children, that is on THEM, not. you. It is shitty and ugly and evil, but it seems to me that human beings understand nothing better than this.

I question God's design.

Daily.

You fully support evil, got it.

You do realize your government supports this regime and most of the world does not and wishes Israel would go away.

So by your rationale, and indeed your very words, you have "risked" war, and you and yours (and me apparently since I am male) should be imprisoned and shot/killed/bombed, should an enemy "who understands war" gain the upper hand.

You're killing me with all the peace and prosperity. Ron Paul would be proud.

 

[osan]

You fully support evil, got it.

Before you get your undies in a twist, let's get a few things straight. My support is based on a set of "all else equal" conditions, which may not prove out. Perhaps I should have specified this, but rewriting War and Peace isn't always so attractive.

But if all else is in fact equal, then I'd ask what you would do in their shoes? If an army of sand fleas crossed my border and murdered 1200 of my own, I would be dead set on getting my pound of flesh. The Palestinians are receiving condign punishment, save that the children should be exempted. But this is war and shit happens and is happening.

Now, I believe that I have posted some time in the past year that a possibility that cannot be dismissed was that Israel covertly taunted and tempted hamas into mounting this attack, qualifying it as functionally being a false flag. After all, Israel CREATED hamas long ago, I suppose thinking they were being clever or something, and as the story goes it got away from them. Assuming this is so and that Israel does not retain ultimate control over hamas, and the attack was not the work of them crafty Jooz working at something, then I ask once again what would you do were you in their position?

You do realize your government supports this regime and most of the world does not and wishes Israel would go away.

Wish all you want. Israel has been a nuisance since forever, but again I bid you look it things from their perspective. Who can say what the actual truth of it all might be. Did they steal that land? My understanding, which has yet to be refuted by anyone, is that Jews had purchased land in so-called "Palestine" since the 19th century at least. The Arabs decided at some point, "fuck that shit" and denied those property owners their rights. There SEEMS to have been all manner of hanky panky going on there after the war when they were trying to establish the Israeli state. I don't know enough about the legal realities, as well as those political, to say whether all the machinations were just acts or those of a raft of sneaky little felons. But if we assume the acquisition and establishment was valid, or as valid as that sort of thing can ever by in any case, and that the Jews were working within proper moral limits, even with the occasional excursions therefrom, then the Jews of Europe had and retain every right to be there and most of this bullshit falls at the feet of the Arabs. If we assume otherwise, then we are still reduced to a pragmatic circumstance: the state of Israel is a fact.

Regardless of all that, I again ask what would you do in their place? Bare your neck to the raving Muslims to slice into? Pick up your marbles and leave? To go where, exactly?

So sorry, but regardless of the history, and assuming this was not deliberately and positively precipitated by Israel - and I do not rule out the possibility - then the attack of 10/7 lies at the feet of the people of Gaza and I can in no way hold the Israelis at fault for bombing the living shit out of that place. Once again, so you don't misunderstand or forget: ALL ELSE EQUAL, hamas has to be eradicated in the eyes of Israel. Now, if the Israeli "government" did in fact precipitate that attack to justify military action against Gaza, that is an entirely different kettle of feces, and in such a case I'd wash my hands of them and leave them to their fate against some 600 million very pissed off people.

But how are we to know what is the truth here? The only thing I DO know is that hamas committed horrific acts. Until evidence of Israeli culpability for that attack is revealed and vetted, the only valid assumption to make, if one is to make any assumption along the lines of this issue, is that the Israelis are the victims. If such proof surfaces, I will completely alter my opinion on the matter. I am neither wed nor welded to my current views and if you have something you feel might convince me otherwise, I'm all eyes and ears, but I would make you certainly aware that that bar would be rather high.

So by your rationale, and indeed your very words, you have "risked" war, and you and yours (and me apparently since I am male) should be imprisoned and shot/killed/bombed, should an enemy "who understands war" gain the upper hand.

I haven't risked a damned thing. I'm here on my little farm in WV watching in bemused disgust at the horrors being committed by races of people who appear to be congenitally stupid. Just because I can see things from Israel's standpoint, it does not follow that I agree with them or that I think we should be funding them. I am sympathetic, contingent upon conditions. If those conditions change in a certain way, my sympathy may well evaporate into thin air, as if by magic. Truth has a way of doing that with honest men, and in this matter, I am as honest as any human being has ever been. Drothers, I'd see all those people start behaving in a civil , rational, and decent manner. That isn't going to happen because they are neither civil, decent, or rational. It's going to be what it's going to be and I'm just glad I don't live in that stink hole. The world would likely benefit wildly from the building of a 100' high wall all around the middle east to keep the hottentots in and the rest of us out. They've been shitheads pretty much forever.

You're killing me with all the peace and prosperity. Ron Paul would be proud.

I ain't doing shit. I'm only seeing another man's POV. If that give you indigestion, well... take some Mylanta. It will pass, I promise you.

So now that you have a clearer view of my position, perhaps you will calm your nerves. I can't believe I had to write all this to ease someone's overproduction of bile.

Have a good evening, and all the best.

 

[osan]

Israel should go after everyone who funded Hamas starting with Benjamen Netanyahu. Even rabid zionist "Rabbi Shmuley" recently admitted Bibi did that.

So far as I know, Israel created hamas... for what purpose I don't precisely recall, but my vague recollection is that it was to establish a "government" that Israel would control and that it got away from them. Plausible, but still not sure I buy that last bit.

As to whether Bennie funded them, it would not surprise me. I think looking into all that makes normative sense, but given how tight-lipped the Israeli "government" can be, I suspect that practically speaking it would be a waste of time.

At 41:45 seconds in, Rabbi Shmuley admits that Netanyahu allowed funding of Hamas through Qatar to "buy off Hamas."

Now you see, THAT makes no sense at all. If Bennie is that stupid, then perhaps he indeed needs to see the inside of a Saudi prison. Those people are cause-oriented and are either immune to such bribery due in large part to the nature of the cause to which they are subscribed, or they take the money on the promise and then turn right around and break their word, so much the wealthier. After all, Allah condones lying to the kaffir if it furthers the causes of Islam. I find it difficult at best to accept that Bennis is that stupid. Not impossible, but methinks unlikely.

That confirms other sources which say that Netanyahu allowed the funding of Hamas via Qatar to weaken the PLO and to undermine a Palestinian state.

It may confirm, but it proves nothing. People say all manner of things which may or may not be true. This is trebly so in politics and those of the middle east methinks are more prone to lies than even that which we have here in America, which is REALLY saying something.

Israel had the plans for October 7th a year in advance.

Were this to prove so, I would not be surprised. But until it is proven beyond doubt, my views must remain as they have been. The ONLY thing of which I am reasonably sure is that hamas attacked and committed atrocious acts. Beyond that, anything I could say would be mere speculation.

Israel was warned by Israeli, Egyptian and U.S. intelligence that an attack was imminent, yet Netanyahu moved the IDF AWAY from the border with Gaza.

Once again, this is politics and the only assumption I could make in good conscience is that everyone is either lying or bullshitting. I'm just not smart enough to know the truth unless it is put to me such that I cannot reasonably deny it. I've yet to be presented. Even if the CIA came to my door in the next five minutes and showed me all their intelligence and other evidence, I could not accept it because lying is the staple of their daily diet. In politics I trust NOBODY, including myself. Sorry mom.

Here Candace Owens applauded Israel's surgical strike against Hezbollah using the pagers but raised the obvious question of why not use such percision against Hamas? The IDF spokesperson tried to draw a distinction because, supposedly, Hamas was more embeded within the civilian population than Hezbollah. Candace pointed out that was't true. Hamas is in the tunnels and Israel could go into the tunnels if they wanted to. See starting at 48:00 here.

Would YOU want to go into those tunnels? I remember the dread I felt as a teen at the thought of going to Vietnam and being made into a tunnel rat. That's some scary shit. I wouldn't want to do it and doubt the Israelis want it. And why should they? To save the lives of their sworn enemies? Hell with that.

But now Israel is doing bombing that's killing hundreds of civilians in Lebanon. So much for surgical strikes. Also the IDF killed a lot of its own civilian population on October 7th using the Hannibal directive.

Ans I have already expressed my suspicion that stirring the shit in Lebanon was a very bad idea. Hitler made the same mistake when he ran tanks into Russia. Had he kept his word to Stalin, chances are fair to middling that he would have prevailed in Europe. Had he sent those armies across the channel to England, he would have subdued the English in a matter of weeks, this especially so if the claims of the ruthlessness of the Germans were true, which I seriously doubt. With England conquered, Hitler would have been able to relax, regroup, and entrench. They'd likely all be speaking German today. I see the same risks now facing Israel. Tiny nation outnumbered nearly 1000:1, if the Arabs as a conceptual gestalt decided they'd finally had enough and were going to go for the gusto, Israel would have no chance. They would be exterminated in no time, and those Arab bastards would leave not even a single Jew living. It would be an actual genocide. I'm thinking they'd better tread rather lightly now, but what do I know?

This is a brutal and unethical regime (Israel) that's as much of a danger to Jews living in Israel as they are to Hamas terrorists.

I do not disagree. It is, after all "government".

Mors tyrannis.

 

[acptulsa]

So far as I know, Israel created hamas... for what purpose I don't precisely recall, but my vague recollection is that it was to establish a "government" that Israel would control and that it got away from them. Plausible, but still not sure I buy that last bit.

If you have to murder all their children, that is on THEM, not. you. It is $#@!ty and ugly and evil, but it seems to me that human beings understand nothing better than this.

I question God's design.

Daily.

So now that you have a clearer view of my position, perhaps you will calm your nerves. I can't believe I had to write all this to ease someone's overproduction of bile.

Have a good evening, and all the best.

It might well be a complete false flag, but you support the Carthaginian Peace anyway?

Bile begets bile.

 

[jmdrake]

Were this to prove so, I would not be surprised. But until it is proven beyond doubt, my views must remain as they have been. The ONLY thing of which I am reasonably sure is that hamas attacked and committed atrocious acts. Beyond that, anything I could say would be mere speculation

Why are you "reasonably sure" that Hamas committed attrocious acts when the same news organizations which reported that (and some of those reports have already been debunked) tell you that even Israeli intelligence says the Israeli government was warned a year ahead of time regarding the plans about the attack and weeks ahead of time that an attack is imminent? Either everthying is just "speculation" or nothing is.

Would YOU want to go into those tunnels? I remember the dread I felt as a teen at the thought of going to Vietnam and being made into a tunnel rat. That's some scary $#@!. I wouldn't want to do it and doubt the Israelis want it. And why should they? To save the lives of their sworn enemies? Hell with that.

If I cared about getting back my countrymen alive? Absolutely! There weren't any American hostages to my knowledg in the Vietnam tunnels. And nowadays the could send in fiber optic controlled "robot dogs." This isn't 1967.

 

[osan]

It might well be a complete false flag, but you support the Carthaginian Peace anyway?

Bile begets bile.

Don't be obtuse; it doesn't help you. I specifically stated that I support what they are doing from their POV and under the very clearly stated conditions that all is sufficiently as it appears. I also very explicitly stated that if it turned out that the Israeli "government" was directly and intentionally responsible for the 10/7 attack that my views on the matter would alter fundamentally.

Do yourself a favor and read what I wrote and stop making shit up. It becomes tiresome and if I wish for disingenuous and/or careless tedium, I can go hang out at facebook. I come here to have adult discussions and not this sort of thing.

 

[acptulsa]

Bennie was unequivocal at the UN. He was clever, methinks in taking a stick and carrot approach. No idea whether he was sincere, though he put on a good display.

He drew a clear line in the sand and basically threatened somewhere on the order of 600+ million Arabs. It will be interesting to see how this all shakes out.

.

I feel sadly compelled to agree with you on this. I'm not confident that the Israeli decisions concerning Hezbollah were wise, but I don't live there, so I could be mistaken.

I do, however, fully support their campaign to eradicate hamas. I feel terribly for the children of Gaza, but the adults have left the Israelis with a very unfortunate choice. Were I in Israel's shoes, I would be doing the same, mostly.

However, one thing I might do differently would be to allow all female Gazans to leave, whether it be to go to Egypt, Israel, Jordan, Syrian, what have you. I would imprison all Gazan males in Gaza, then proceed to reduce the entire area to rubble, after which I would send in troops to cleanse and finish that nonsense once and for all. I would thereafter annex Gaza as a spoil of war. Hamas started it, Israel should finish it. War is hell, and it ought to be. $#@! all Geneva Conventions and the rot of "civil" warfare. You go to war, you should risk extinction at the hands of your enemy, just as they risk the same. I believe in one rule of engagement: slaughter your enemies until they cry uncle and not a second before. If you have to murder all their children, that is on THEM, not. you. It is $#@!ty and ugly and evil, but it seems to me that human beings understand nothing better than this.

I question God's design.

Daily.

Your guess is better than mine, I assume.



Who can say what the intelligence reveals?



Where else would they go? Annex Lebanon? Attack Syria? Jordan? What are we driving at here?

I specifically stated that I support what they are doing from their POV and under the very clearly stated conditions that all is sufficiently as it appears. I also very explicitly stated that if it turned out that the Israeli "government" was directly and intentionally responsible for the 10/7 attack that my views on the matter would alter fundamentally.

Where?

Do yourself a favor and read what I wrote and stop making $#@! up. It becomes tiresome and if I wish for disingenuous and/or careless tedium, I can go hang out at facebook. I come here to have adult discussions and not this sort of thing.

Do yourself a favor and stop claiming you said what you hadn't.

 

[osan]

Why are you "reasonably sure" that Hamas committed attrocious acts when the same news organizations which reported that (and some of those reports have already been debunked) tell you that even Israeli intelligence says the Israeli government was warned a year ahead of time regarding the plans about the attack and weeks ahead of time that an attack is imminent? Either everthying is just "speculation" or nothing is.

Firstly, you seem to be mixing two issues. That aside, is it your contention that hamas didn't rape women, take hostages, commit murders, burn infants alive, and so on? If that is your claim, upon what evidence do you base it? And what has the warning to do with anything? Let us take a step back and get a broader view of this situation. Assuming that the reports are fact and that they are true, which I will concede for argument's sake and only for that sake, your apparent and implied premise is that Israel neglected to act, apparently with intent, and that they would have known where the attack would occur, when it would occur, or absent that, that they could have marshalled sufficient forces to cover their entire national border for an indefinite period. This fails on several levels.

For one thing, time was on hamas' side. They have eyes in Israel and any such mobilization would signal hamas to stop and wait-see. Keeping troops active for a year based on intelligence, regardless of how good, is costly in several ways. Firstly, there are finances. There is the disruption of business due to the absence of people for conducting same. Thereby does the economy falter and things become difficult. Then there is the physical and psychological detriments suffered by those who live in a state of red-alert for protracted periods. People suffer ill effects in mere weeks. In a year or more, they get toasted. It cannot be maintained. Anyone doubting this need only consult the histories of the two big wars. PTSD is real and it is debilitating.

So if we assume no false flags for the nonce, that Israel is playing with both hands on the table, then it becomes clear that they could not respond in any ideal way that would have guaranteed sufficient defensive coverage in a circumstance where hamas is able to pick both time and location of an attack. So unless you have conclusive proof that Israel acted in criminally bad faith here, there really isn't anything to discuss that is of meritorious value. Until it is proven that they acted badly, the only evidence we have and on which we can proceed is that they were attacked. Or is it your contention that no such thing occurred and this is all a great three ring bullshit circus? I ask because you seem to have some issue with the facts of the matter as currently claimed.

If I cared about getting back my countrymen alive? Absolutely!

That is an easy claim to make. The reality of doing it is not quite so simple. For one thing, they would face all manner of hazards such as booby traps, gunfire from entrenched positions, again hamas enjoying certain tactical advantages. And then there is the issue of the hostages. If hamas operators see they are to be run over and likely killed, there is no reason not to slay the hostages. The Israelis, being genuinely concerned with retrieving their people alive as opposed to in a state of ground flesh, are not going to provoke the captors. Storming the tunnels is not going to get them what they want, but only their people killed. This is remedial strategy 001 for those soldiers and other operators who slept through class in high school.

There weren't any American hostages to my knowledg[e] in the Vietnam tunnels. And nowadays the could send in fiber optic controlled "robot dogs." This isn't 1967.

And that tech is irrelevant. Robot dog discovered in tunnels, they neutralize it. They move hostages yet again, or just kill them outright. There is no tactical solution there that does not all but guarantee the death of the hostages, whom hamas will simply never give up through force, but only by negotiation. Then there is the second whammy of public relations. Israel shoots their way in, the hostages are murdered, and now they have to explain to their own people why that's OK. Do bear in mind the CLEAR absence of Israel's past rhetoric that they never negotiate with terrorists. Had that policy been in place, they would have written the hostages off as casualties of war as they have in the past, and gone about slaughtering every Gazan to the last man. They have thus far failed to do that, which after a year seems a clear indicator that they no longer hold that position. Otherwise, why have they not acted in the face of ongoing rocket attacks?

Things are not quite black and white here. It's a shame, seeing as clarity is pleasurable, but that's the hand we're dealt and we have to play it as is. Perhaps I am better served holding a position of indifference? I mean, we speak here of vast hordes of apparently stupid and uncivil toddlers, perhaps on all sides, who not unlike the dimwits in the Balkans, simply refuse to relinquish the blood feud. They are all insane and if they continue to murder each other, there is little to stop them and with each passing day I further question whether any of us should give a tinker's damn what happens to them, children included. They seem to doom themselves with great enthusiasm.

What is one to say about it all?

 

[osan]

Where?

Are you fucking kidding? Either your reading habits suck Michelle Obama's 10" penis, or you're just intentionally being a dick. But to answer your quesiton, HERE

Seriously pal, what in hell is wrong with you. I've been civil and accommodating. Now I'm done.

 

[acptulsa]

Keeping troops active for a year based on intelligence, regardless of how good, is costly in several ways.

You should sharpen your own reading skills. The claim is that Israeli intelligence knew the scheduled date a year prior.

Are you $#@!ing kidding? Either your reading habits suck Michelle Obama's 10" penis, or you're just intentionally being a dick. But to answer your quesiton, HERE

Seriously pal, what in hell is wrong with you. I've been civil and accommodating. Now I'm done.

Oh, finally found it. You didn't type that until well after all three of us had responded to you. That's civility and accommodation is it? Sounds more like ex post facto. Oh, you're sorry, the goalposts were supposed to be down here all along, right?

My support is based on a set of "all else equal" conditions, which may not prove out. Perhaps I should have specified this...

Huh, ya think?

...but rewriting War and Peace isn't always so attractive.

Never stopped you before. If I know I just might be making excuses for premeditated genocide, I tend to leave room to post my caveats.

Don't look now, but your own panties are more twisted than anyone's -- and try as you might, you can't find anybody to blame but yourself.

 

[jmdrake]

Firstly, you seem to be mixing two issues. That aside, is it your contention that hamas didn't rape women, take hostages, commit murders, burn infants alive, and so on?

The "burning infants alive" story was 100% debunked! So was the "beheading babies" story. There is scant evidence for the mass rape story.



The bottom line is you accept anything bad about Hamas without question but then question anything negative about Israel even when it's coming from the same sources. You're simply not being objective. Not even kind of. And you didn't even address the "Hannibal directive" story.

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news...-captive/00000190-89a2-d776-a3b1-fdbe45520000

At this point I can't take you seriously.

For one thing, time was on hamas' side. They have eyes in Israel and any such mobilization would signal hamas to stop and wait-see. Keeping troops active for a year based on intelligence, regardless of how good, is costly in several ways. Firstly, there are finances. There is the disruption of business due to the absence of people for conducting same. Thereby does the economy falter and things become difficult. Then there is the physical and psychological detriments suffered by those who live in a state of red-alert for protracted periods. People suffer ill effects in mere weeks. In a year or more, they get toasted. It cannot be maintained. Anyone doubting this need only consult the histories of the two big wars. PTSD is real and it is debilitating.

Bibi Netanyahu moved troops AWAY from the border with Gaza when his own intelligence services told him an attack from Hamas was imminent! Sorry but it's hard to take you seriously with you carrying Netanyahu water the way you are doing it.