Is the HPV Vaccine Safe?

[Acala]

Oh pulease

This is just a proxy argument for the atheist/science worshippers. You have no idea what is in an injection. If your life is not at immediate risk, dont take it. Forcing something like this on a child is unconscionable, and the forced plan they tried to shove down the throats of the public should be even more frightening. If an adult woman wants to take her chances with this vaccine, fine. If she calculates the risks of her contracting the extract strains of HPV that this vaccine guards against times the odds of it causing her cancer, and in sum, the risk of the vaccine is less than the risk of cancer, fine..

As a father of a minor child, it is my legal and moral obligation to make decision for that child. End of story. When the decision must be made while the child is a minor - as in this case since exposure to the virus would likely occur before she reached majority - then the parent has no choice. To fail to make the decision is to cost the child the possible benefit of the vaccine.

but this assumption that we need to assume that every prepubescent girl is destined to be a porn star when she grows up is just retarded.

Your asumption that only the highly promiscuous are under threat from this disease is just retarded.

 

[Acala]

No

I don't know, I don't feel the vaccine is very realistic. Probably not such a bad idea but I'm not seeing it as being particularly safe or effective in Gardasil. Yes, I know it's invasive testing and maybe not a hundred percent accurate. Is it too much to get tested after having a sexual partner? That's obviously not my decision.

And for the part bolded yes why would that really be so unreasonable? It's her health after all and the vaccine insert says that it's no substitute for this.

It doesn't necessarily clear up in everyone but you want to at least give your immune system a chance to combat and suppress it don't you? I mean common....

You still don't seem to understand - there is NO TREATMENT for the viral infection once you have it. If your immune system cannot defeat it when you are exposed, you are stuck with it forever. And it causes a deadly form of cancer. And it is contagious. So just having sex and then getting tested to see if you are infected gets you nothing except the knowledge that you will be infecting others the rest of your life - or remaining celibate. That really isn't much of a consolation compared to the possibility of not GETTING the disease in the first place, now is it? Kind of like just getting polio and waiting to see if it cripples you or not. Maybe it won't! But if it does, you are pretty well screwed, aren't you?

 

[tropicangela]

The answer to the title of this thread really is that NO vaccine is guaranteed 100% effective or safe. A person could become damaged from the vaccines plus contract the disease they were supposed to protect against, or a person could die from the vaccine. People shouldn't be forced to take that risk by the government or anyone else.

 

[M House]

You still don't seem to understand - there is NO TREATMENT for the viral infection once you have it. If your immune system cannot defeat it when you are exposed, you are stuck with it forever. And it causes a deadly form of cancer. And it is contagious. So just having sex and then getting tested to see if you are infected gets you nothing except the knowledge that you will be infecting others the rest of your life - or remaining celibate. That really isn't much of a consolation compared to the possibility of not GETTING the disease in the first place, now is it? Kind of like just getting polio and waiting to see if it cripples you or not. Maybe it won't! But if it does, you are pretty well screwed, aren't you?

I think you're being melodramatic. Much like herpes you get it you'll have to deal and it's not the end of your sex life. Hell herpes has Valtrex there will probably be options for HPV soon as well. What's the point of getting infected by another strain HPV if you haven't contained the first one you got? It's not like you can't get another. Like I said, I'm seeing much that would indicate to me the Gardasil is particularly effective other than their initial study which actually brings up plenty of questions for me. If you have another study on it that would be great.

 

[NationaliseIt]

This is just a proxy argument for the atheist/science worshippers. You have no idea what is in an injection.

We know what is contained within a vaccine injection and its effects upon the body and immunity as well as we know what happens when you turn the key to start your car.

Vaccinations have been around for nearly 250 years, the science behind them is very well understood.

There is a reason why any articles that suggests negative effects about vaccines aren't published in credible media and aren't peer reviewed, it's because the stuff written is absolute trash that doesn't pass testing and is written by people who have been exiled from the mainstream scientific community.

 

[Minarchy4Sale]

We know what is contained within a vaccine injection and its effects upon the body and immunity as well as we know what happens when you turn the key to start your car.

If someone fucks up and makes a bad starter, Im not likely to die a slow and agonizing death.

Vaccinations have been around for nearly 250 years, the science behind them is very well understood.

Maybe that is true, maybe it isnt. Mainstream medical scientific thought used to think that women needed to be masturbated to orgasm by their physicians to maintain emotional balance..... Even if you do understand how they work, that doesnt mean you know for certain what is in the final product.

There is a reason why any articles that suggests negative effects about vaccines aren't published in credible media and aren't peer reviewed, it's because the stuff written is absolute trash that doesn't pass testing and is written by people who have been exiled from the mainstream scientific community.

mainstream scientific thought also holds that CO2 emissions need to be taxed. They also subscribe to shit today that will be looked at in 100 years to be kooky as hell. Some of those exiles will be vindicated, and youll have just been a sheep, bleating along with the rest of the herd.

 

[Minarchy4Sale]

As a father of a minor child, it is my legal and moral obligation to make decision for that child. End of story. When the decision must be made while the child is a minor - as in this case since exposure to the virus would likely occur before she reached majority - then the parent has no choice. To fail to make the decision is to cost the child the possible benefit of the vaccine.

You and your kid decide if she exposes herself. Your assumption that it is an accident is part of the problem here. Sexual intimacy doesnt just happen.

Your asumption that only the highly promiscuous are under threat from this disease is just retarded.

As is your putting a child at risk for long term health problems to avoid your responsibility to protect her from the world until she is old enough to make her own decisions.

 

[NationaliseIt]

If someone fucks up and makes a bad starter, Im not likely to die a slow and agonizing death.

That's why testing standards are so high and hard to achieve, vaccinations are given to millions around the world every year and the best the anti-vaccination lobby can come up with is a handful of cases where someone got sick after receiving a vaccination with no-evidence as to the vaccination causing it.

Maybe that is true, maybe it isnt. Mainstream medical scientific thought used to think that women needed to be masturbated to orgasm by their physicians to maintain emotional balance..... Even if you do understand how they work, that doesnt mean you know for certain what is in the final product.

Science being a slave to politics/religion is long over, and evidence based medicine has now become the dominant school of thought.

Some of those exiles will be vindicated, and youll have just been a sheep, bleating along with the rest of the herd.

believing someone because they are an exile is just as retarded as believing someone because they are part of the mainstream.

If you look objectively you have to recognise that the people spouting anti-vaccine talk just don't have the evidence backing them up, quality wise and quantity wise.

 

[Minarchy4Sale]

That's why testing standards are so high and hard to achieve, vaccinations are given to millions around the world every year and the best the anti-vaccination lobby can come up with is a handful of cases where someone got sick after receiving a vaccination with no-evidence as to the vaccination causing it.

clearly the testing standards arent high enough. The inherent conceit in medical scientists claiming to completely understand the electro/magnetic/chemical processes of all the body is GInormous, particularly when you take biochemical individuality into account. Im sorry, but NO treatment is universally effective, and one size fits all solutions like vaccinations are guaranteed to cause problems for some people. Its like playing russian roulette, except those that dont get a bullet, get a benefit. No thanks, Ill stick to individually determined treatments.

Science being a slave to politics/religion is long over, and evidence based medicine has now become the dominant school of thought.

That is as hillarious as it is false.

believing someone because they are an exile is just as retarded as believing someone because they are part of the mainstream.

I never advocated believing someone because they are an exile. You DO seem to be advocating believing mainstream scientific thought merely because it is mainstream. Scientists are even more prone to groupthink than the rest of the population.

If you look objectively you have to recognise that the people spouting anti-vaccine talk just don't have the evidence backing them up, quality wise and quantity wise.

This isnt a contest. A treatment is safe, or it is not.

 

[NationaliseIt]

clearly the testing standards arent high enough. The inherent conceit in medical scientists claiming to completely understand the electro/magnetic/chemical processes of all the body is GInormous, particularly when you take biochemical individuality into account. Im sorry, but NO treatment is universally effective, and one size fits all solutions like vaccinations are guaranteed to cause problems for some people. Its like playing russian roulette, except those that dont get a bullet, get a benefit. No thanks, Ill stick to individually determined treatments.

Guess what? yyou go into cardiac arrest and you will be treated like every other person out there, you will get the same drugs in the same doses.

Vaccinations directly contributed to wiping out smallpox, play your individualism game if you like but 99.99% of the time you are the same as everyone else and medication will get the same result.

Look up herd immunity.

I never advocated believing someone because they are an exile. You DO seem to be advocating believing mainstream scientific thought merely because it is mainstream. Scientists are even more prone to groupthink than the rest of the population.

I believe the mainstream scientific community on this issue because they actually have delivered the goods and the detractors have nothing but sob-stories with no substance.

This isnt a contest. A treatment is safe, or it is not.

It is when one side has bags of credible evidence and the other side has nothing.

 

[Acala]

Lol

You and your kid decide if she exposes herself. Your assumption that it is an accident is part of the problem here. Sexual intimacy doesnt just happen.

So your solution is what? Celibacy? That is simply not going to happen. Never has. Never will. The human sex drive is too strong.

If what you are saying is that careful choice of sexual partners will save you from exposure, you are wrong. There is no way to know if your partner has been exposed to HPV. Unless you are proposing that people should never have sex except in the confines of marriage and should only marry virgins. And once again I say the world has never known a society that followed that rule and it never will.

But I can see that your view here is not driven by science but by some moral stance based on the idea that HPV is a problem of morality, not a disease that should be treated like one.

I disagree.

I can understand people who are skeptical of the motives of the FDA and the drug companies. I can understand people who believe that Gardasil has not been developed or deployed properly or is a dangerous fraud in some way. But people who say that the answer to sexually transmitted disease is to avoid sexual relations when sexual relations are a primary biological function are just silly.

As is your putting a child at risk for long term health problems to avoid your responsibility to protect her from the world until she is old enough to make her own decisions.

Ahahahaha! Have your children locked in a closet do you? Oh, you don't HAVE any children? How did I know? Hahahaha! You should not opine on things you know NOTHING about.

Thinking your kids are going to avoid sex because you preach to them is just idiotic. All you might succeed in doing is making them feel so guilty about it that they never can enjoy it.

Sex isn't dirty or evil. It can be a wonderful way of bonding with another human being. Unfortunately, some opportunistic microorganisms have inserted themselves into the process. If science can shut them out, great! But your sexual austerity program will fail. Every time. It is nature. Deal with it.

 

[Acala]

?

I think you're being melodramatic. Much like herpes you get it you'll have to deal and it's not the end of your sex life. Hell herpes has Valtrex there will probably be options for HPV soon as well. What's the point of getting infected by another strain HPV if you haven't contained the first one you got? It's not like you can't get another. Like I said, I'm seeing much that would indicate to me the Gardasil is particularly effective other than their initial study which actually brings up plenty of questions for me. If you have another study on it that would be great.

A couple big differences between HPV and herpes - herpes doesn't kill you, and you will likely know if you have a communicable herpes infection (although you may not know if you have a dormant infection) so you can take steps to prevent the spread. With the cancer-causing strains of HPV you don't know you have been infected until the pre-cancerous or cancerous cells show up.

I don't understand what you mean by this: "What's the point of getting infected by another strain of HPV if you haven't contained the first one you got? It's not like you can't get another."

Do you understand that a vaccine doesn't treat an existing infection, it only prevents the occurrence of a new infection? The point of the vaccine is to arm your body to defeat any infection from the strains of HPV that seem to be linked to cervical cancer. If the vaccine is effective, you won't be infected by the strains of HPV included in the vaccine.

I have not reviewed the scientific literature myself so I cannot point you to any particular studies regarding the efficacy of Gardasil. I am relying on the process of scientific peer review.

If you think I am being over-dramatic about cervical cancer, you might want to talk to someone who has it. Or their survivors. It ain't no joke.

 

[Minarchy4Sale]

So your solution is what? Celibacy? That is simply not going to happen. Never has. Never will. The human sex drive is too strong.

Celibacy until the age of maturity is not unreasonable. I did it, my wife did it, my DAUGHTER *IS* doing it.

If what you are saying is that careful choice of sexual partners will save you from exposure, you are wrong.

What Im saying is that a careful choice of sexual partners, and the proper use of condoms will certainly provide a great degree of protection.

There is no way to know if your partner has been exposed to HPV. Unless you are proposing that people should never have sex except in the confines of marriage and should only marry virgins. And once again I say the world has never known a society that followed that rule and it never will.

this isnt a societal problem. There are no 'societal' problems. All problems are caused by individual choices.

But I can see that your view here is not driven by science but by some moral stance based on the idea that HPV is a problem of morality, not a disease that should be treated like one.

No, my thought is that there are risks associated with this vaccine that are equal to or greater than the risk of hpv created cancer itself. This vaccine has not been properly tested. In that situation, managing the risk by managing exposure simply makes more sense. Even if I didnt feel that way, I owe it to my daughter to let her make the decision for herself when she reaches the age to do so.

I can understand people who are skeptical of the motives of the FDA and the drug companies. I can understand people who believe that Gardasil has not been developed or deployed properly or is a dangerous fraud in some way. But people who say that the answer to sexually transmitted disease is to avoid sexual relations when sexual relations are a primary biological function are just silly.

People make choices. People who think we have no choice and are nothing but victims of our biology are just silly.

Ahahahaha! Have your children locked in a closet do you? Oh, you don't HAVE any children? How did I know? Hahahaha! You should not opine on things you know NOTHING about.

Im sorry to disappoint you, but I have a daughter. It isnt unnecessary to lock your kids in the closet. Its called supervision, and all you have to do is make the choice that your kids will not unsupervised, either by you, or only by people who you would trust with your kids' life, period. It takes making some sacrifices to make that happen, but it is worth it.

Thinking your kids are going to avoid sex because you preach to them is just idiotic. All you might succeed in doing is making them feel so guilty about it that they never can enjoy it.

What does being a prude have anything to do with it? My kid understands that there is a time and a place for sex. It is for adults who are capable of handling the emotional, physical, biological, and financial consequences of it. It is not for kids. She knows our expectations, she understands the reasoning, and she is interested in building a real life for herself. She will be allowed to date when she is 18, and she will be encouraged then to place a high value on protecting her future children by being super selective about who she becomes involved with.

Sex isn't dirty or evil.

Never said it was. It does come with great responsibility.

It can be a wonderful way of bonding with another human being. Unfortunately, some opportunistic microorganisms have inserted themselves into the process. If science can shut them out, great! But your sexual austerity program will fail. Every time. It is nature. Deal with it.

Keep telling yourself that humans are just victims of their drives. It just isnt true.

 

[tropicangela]

HIV can kill people too. I wouldn't give myself or my son or daughter an HIV vaccine either if/when it becomes available. Nor would I feel like I was being an irresponsible citizen or parent for not taking it.

 

[M House]

A couple big differences between HPV and herpes - herpes doesn't kill you, and you will likely know if you have a communicable herpes infection (although you may not know if you have a dormant infection) so you can take steps to prevent the spread. With the cancer-causing strains of HPV you don't know you have been infected until the pre-cancerous or cancerous cells show up.

I don't understand what you mean by this: "What's the point of getting infected by another strain of HPV if you haven't contained the first one you got? It's not like you can't get another."

Do you understand that a vaccine doesn't treat an existing infection, it only prevents the occurrence of a new infection? The point of the vaccine is to arm your body to defeat any infection from the strains of HPV that seem to be linked to cervical cancer. If the vaccine is effective, you won't be infected by the strains of HPV included in the vaccine.

I have not reviewed the scientific literature myself so I cannot point you to any particular studies regarding the efficacy of Gardasil. I am relying on the process of scientific peer review.

If you think I am being over-dramatic about cervical cancer, you might want to talk to someone who has it. Or their survivors. It ain't no joke.

I think you might want to read all my posts on the first couple of pages on what HPV and the vaccine are. You obviously don't know much about HPV or Herpes like you claim I do. I don't need to read more BS from you. You can read the studies yourself linked in their literature. There's little that would convince me Gardasil is particularly safe or it's overall effectiveness. Also, HPV can cause noticeable warts on the vagina and cervix. However much like herpes you don't necessarily know if you have it either. Some people don't get noticeable herpes outbreaks or ones from HPV.

 

[Acala]

My apologies, Brother Patriot

Celibacy until the age of maturity is not unreasonable. I did it, my wife did it, my DAUGHTER *IS* doing it.

I agree. But children are often not reasonable.

What Im saying is that a careful choice of sexual partners, and the proper use of condoms will certainly provide a great degree of protection.

I agree.

this isnt a societal problem. There are no 'societal' problems. All problems are caused by individual choices.

Ummmm . . . plenty of problems are caused by things beyond any human control. But I understand your point.

No, my thought is that there are risks associated with this vaccine that are equal to or greater than the risk of hpv created cancer itself. This vaccine has not been properly tested. In that situation, managing the risk by managing exposure simply makes more sense.

A rational position that I don't disagree with.

Even if I didnt feel that way, I owe it to my daughter to let her make the decision for herself when she reaches the age to do so.

In my situation, that was not an option.

People make choices. People who think we have no choice and are nothing but victims of our biology are just silly.

I would never say otherwise. But people make BAD choices frequently - especially teenagers.

Im sorry to disappoint you, but I have a daughter.

I apologize. I should not have jumped to the contrary conclusion. I just found it hard to believe that anyone who had actually raised a teenager would think they had that much control. More power to you if you really have been able to raise a rational child that - as a teenager - will listen to sound advice from an adult.

It isnt unnecessary to lock your kids in the closet. Its called supervision, and all you have to do is make the choice that your kids will not unsupervised, either by you, or only by people who you would trust with your kids' life, period. It takes making some sacrifices to make that happen, but it is worth it. What does being a prude have anything to do with it? My kid understands that there is a time and a place for sex. It is for adults who are capable of handling the emotional, physical, biological, and financial consequences of it. It is not for kids. She knows our expectations, she understands the reasoning, and she is interested in building a real life for herself. She will be allowed to date when she is 18, and she will be encouraged then to place a high value on protecting her future children by being super selective about who she becomes involved with.

I hope that works as planned

Keep telling yourself that humans are just victims of their drives. It just isnt true.

Never said it was. But children aren't humans.

 

[Acala]

My apologies Brother Patriot

I don't need to read more BS from you.

I'm not sure what I said to generate this response, but I apologize. I was simply trying to understand your position and explain mine.

When you are making decisions regarding the life of people you love (or anyone really), you weigh the evidence you can find, you balance the risks, and you make decisions. What I have presented here is not BS, it is the actual decision-making process that had consequences in real people's lives. Perhaps I made a mistake. I have made them before. LOTS of them. But this is not just some intellectual masturbation going on here. At least not for me.

 

[tropicangela]

Young Woman Featured in Gardasil Media Attention Passes Away

http://www.ageofautism.com/2009/03/mainstream-medi.html

About a month after being vaccinated against the cervical cancer-causing HPV virus, 13-year-old Jenny Tetlock missed the lowest hurdle in gym class, the first hint of the degenerative muscle disease that, 15 months later, has left the previously healthy teenager nearly completely paralyzed. Did the vaccine, Gardasil, cause her condition? Her father, Philip Tetlock, a psychology professor at UC-Berkeley's Haas School of Business, has embarked on an odyssey to find out whether the vaccine or random coincidence is to blame.

 

[donnay]

The Great HPV Vaccine Hoax Exposed
http://www.newstarget.com/Report_HPV_Vaccine_0.html

 

[LATruth]

After all that I have read about vaccines and their effectiveness I would not inject any of their concoctions into me or my kids. Ever. You have the right to refuse.