Is Taxation Theft?

[mediahasyou]

Disregard whether you think taxes are necessary.

http://www.voluntaryist.com/taxation/letter_exchange.php

 

[Deborah K]

It depends on the tax. For example, excise taxes, tariffs, taxes on unearned income - all fair. Taxation on wages is not only thievery, it's unconstitutional.

 

[danberkeley]

I thought we were all libertarians. Humm.. I guess not. BTW, I voted "yes".

 

[nate895]

I thought we were all libertarians. Humm.. I guess not. BTW, I voted "yes".

Not all, some of us are paleoconservatives, constitutionalists, libertarian-leaning conservatives, and even some liberals.

 

[Feenix566]

Any time you take money from someone at gunpoint, it's theft. If you don't think your taxes are collected at gunpoint, just try not paying them.

Having said that, it's inevitable that *someone* will take something from you at gunpoint, so I'd rather it be a law-abiding government than a gang of thugs.

 

[Deborah K]

I thought we were all libertarians. Humm.. I guess not. BTW, I voted "yes".

So, to you ALL taxation is thievery? How do you run a gov't without some form of taxation?

 

[Kotin]

So, to you ALL taxation is thievery? How do you run a gov't without some form of taxation?

I've done some research about this and what I have found is that a libertarian government would get revenue mostly through user fees.. I would add a sales tax to that and I think we would have enough revenue.


your thoughts?

 

[danberkeley]

So, to you ALL taxation is thievery? How do you run a gov't without some form of taxation?

Given that the state is inherently coercive, any tax it levies is, therefore, coervice. To be complete, there can be non-state governments. A private property development with residences, shoppes, and so on can have its own way of "taxing" or levying fees upon its lessees to maintain the development. Like a mall/shopping center that charges rent and/or takes a percentage of sales from its lessees to maintain the mall/shopping center.

 

[Kludge]

Remove quotas, tax immigrants (5-10%). Immigration is voluntary, thus are the taxes.

Eliminate all programs unrelated to the only gov't duty of securing privileges agreed upon by society.

 

[mediahasyou]

Remove quotas, tax immigrants (5-10%). Immigration is voluntary, thus are the taxes.

Eliminate all programs unrelated to the only gov't duty of securing privileges agreed upon by society.

Until immigration slows up. Interesting idea but seems ponzi schemish.

 

[Kludge]

Until immigration slows up. Interesting idea but seems ponzi schemish.

It's very American and Patriotic. I expect it to bring conservative and libertarian support to my campaign.

 

[graddium]

How do you run a gov't without some form of taxation?

You don't. If you believe taxes are theft (they are), then every state you could dream up is inherently immoral.

 

[mediahasyou]

So, to you ALL taxation is thievery? How do you run a gov't without some form of taxation?

A voluntary government funded by voluntary taxes. People pay for what they actually want.

 

[mudhoney]

A voluntary government funded by voluntary taxes. People pay for what they actually want.

Can it still be called a government then?

 

[nodope0695]

I voted no because the Constitution allows for taxation so long as it is apportioned. Taxes on income and property ARE theft, and give government ownership of one's person, and property.

However, taxes such as road tolls, sales tax, parking meters, fines, etc, are equal to all who pay and not based on income, net worth, or station in life.

 

[graddium]

I voted no because the Constitution allows for taxation so long as it is apportioned.

How is a document written 200+ years ago binding on me today? I didn't sign anything, I didn't agree to grant powers to a group of elite individuals over me. If I don't consent, and taxes are still taken from me for whatever, how is that not theft?

 

[nodope0695]

I thought we were all libertarians. Humm.. I guess not. BTW, I voted "yes".

I'm a conservative with a libertarian vein....but as time goes on, I lean more and more toward libertarianism...

That being said, I still beleive there to be a place for government - a government that uphold the constitution and seeks no other agenda. We've got to have roads, infrastructure, and I believe that there is a place for government in these areas, however it should be strictly controlled and at the will of the people concerned.

 

[nodope0695]

How is a document written 200+ years ago binding on me today? I didn't sign anything, I didn't agree to grant powers to a group of elite individuals over me. If I don't consent, and taxes are still taken from me for whatever, how is that not theft?

My friend, please read the constitution...it does not give a group of elites any power over you...it protects you by guaranteeing you life, liberty and property...it restrictes the actions of government and protects the rights of the individual and the states. You are sadly misinformed about what the constitution is, how it is supposed to work, and how it has been USURPED by the very group of elites you're afraid of. That is not the fault of the constitution, or the men who signed it. That is the fault of WE THE PEOPLE who allowed it to happen. Its on us to get it fixed.

Here is a link to a .pdf of the constitution...PLEASE READ IT.

http://constitutioncenter.org/files/constitution.pdf

 

[Deborah K]

How is a document written 200+ years ago binding on me today? I didn't sign anything, I didn't agree to grant powers to a group of elite individuals over me. If I don't consent, and taxes are still taken from me for whatever, how is that not theft?

That document help establish this country. It is the Supreme Law of the land. Have you ever read it?

EDIT: I responded to his post before I saw yours (good response, btw):

My friend, please read the constitution...it does not give a group of elites any power over you...it protects you by guaranteeing you life, liberty and property...it restrictes the actions of government and protects the rights of the individual and the states. You are sadly misinformed about what the constitution is, how it is supposed to work, and how it has been USURPED by the very group of elites you're afraid of. That is not the fault of the constitution, or the men who signed it. That is the fault of WE THE PEOPLE who allowed it to happen. Its on us to get it fixed.

Here is a link to a .pdf of the constitution...PLEASE READ IT.

 

[danberkeley]

That being said, I still beleive there to be a place for government - a government that uphold the constitution and seeks no other agenda. We've got to have roads, infrastructure, and I believe that there is a place for government in these areas, however it should be strictly controlled and at the will of the people concerned.

Ever wonder why it takes 6 months to fill potholes on the highway? The government so inefficient at managing the infrastructure that it can't meet the needs of it's customers, us the taxpayer and others. Go to Disneyland or any place that has private roads and those roads are always maintained. The roads, at least in the urban areas here in California, are always congested. Not only but 40,000 people die on public roads every year.