Is Rand Paul A Radical?

Is Rand Paul A Radical


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trey4sports

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Dec 5, 2007
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I'm not asking how you think Rand Paul will govern as president nor the positions he has taken in the last several months in order to advance his political ambitions I'm asking if you believe that Rand Paul, at his core, is a radical minarchist like his father.

Do you believe that ideologically he feels as most on this forum do? Do you think he believes that the drug war violates our right to self-ownership? Do you believe that he believes the income tax is unjust and pure theft? Do you believe that Rand Paul believes that the United States ought to JUST COME HOME ALREADY!?

This is just for fun. I tend to think he's pretty close to his father in terms of ideological belief but he believes that he can achieve more in a different fashion.
 
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I don't think there's any doubt that there's a degree of pragmatism in how he conducts himself. He said as much about the Romney endorsement in a Schiff interview shortly after, that it was something he HAD to do to work within the party, they were threatening to paint him in a corner as a "fake republican" like they did his dad. They told him this.

However, I don't think he's being that dishonest, but rather taking the view that you don't always have to tell people everything about what you really think to take a stand for something.

He's also said that he's "realist" and not in the dishonest way, but rather the recognition that idealism is often impossible in our current landscape. I think that is what he's trying to change, and it's working.

That's my take anyway, but you know, it doesn't take evidence to give someone the benefit of the doubt, that's the recognition that you don't have enough evidence to think otherwise, but those levying accusations would be wise to have good evidence before disavowing the best senator we have. That much we do have evidence of right now.
 
No he's not.

He feels the same way as I do, but not the way most of this forum does. Prime example is 75+ pages of defending Adam Kokesh, who I do see as a radical and who was banned from Paul events.
 
I think he probably wants to go further on foreign policy, the drug war, the Great Society and New Deal, etc., than he lets on.

HOWEVER

I think Rand is very much in the trap identified by Murray Rothbard in the following passage from The Ethics of Liberty:

Let us consider, for example, a transition demand set forth by various libertarians: namely, that the government budget be reduced by 10 percent each year for ten years, after which the government will have disappeared. Such a proposal might have heuristic or strategic value, provided that the proposers always make crystal clear that these are minimal demands, and that indeed there would be nothing wrong—in fact, it would be all to the good—to step up the pace to cutting the budget by 25 percent a year for four years, or, most desirably, by cutting it by 100 percent immediately. The danger arises in implying, directly or indirectly that any faster pace than 10 percent would be wrong or undesirable.

An even greater danger of a similar sort is posed by the idea of many libertarians of setting forth a comprehensive and planned program of transition to total liberty, e.g., that in Year 1 law A should be repealed, law B modified, tax C be cut by 20 percent, etc.; in Year 2 law D be repealed, tax C cut by a further 10 percent, etc. The comprehensive plan is far more misleading than the simple budget cut, because it strongly implies that, for example, law D should not be repealed until the second year of this planned program. Hence, the trap of philosophic gradualism, of gradualism-in-theory, would be fallen into on a massive scale. The would-be libertarian planners would be virtually falling into a position, or seeming to, of opposing a faster pace toward liberty.

There is, indeed, another grave flaw in the idea of a comprehensive planned program toward liberty. For the very care and studied pace, the very all-embracing nature of the program, implies that the State is not really the enemy of mankind, that it is possible and desirable to use the State in engineering a planned and measured pace toward liberty. The insight that the State is the permanent enemy of mankind, on the other hand, leads to a very different strategic outlook: namely that libertarians push for and accept with alacrity any reduction of State power or State activity on any front; any such reduction at any time is a reduction in crime and aggression, and is a reduction of the parasitic malignity with which State power rules over and confiscates social power.

For example, libertarians may well push for drastic reduction, or repeal, of the income tax; but they should never do so while at the same time advocating its replacement by a sales or other form of tax. The reduction or, better, the abolition of a tax is always a noncontradictory reduction of State power and a step toward liberty; but its replacement by a new or increased tax elsewhere does just the opposite, for it signifies a new and additional imposition of the State on some other front. The imposition of a new tax is a means that contradicts the libertarian goal itself.

I very much doubt that Rand, as President, would use his constitutional or congressionally-granted powers to, for example, change the schedule of illegal drugs (to make them legal), or remove EPA/FDA/OSHA etc. regulations by executive order, or use his power as commander in chief to bring the troops home from Germany, Japan, South Korea etc., or reverse the executive orders that eliminated the gold standard, or use the power of pardon to eliminate victimless crimes or even cut/remove taxes, etc.

Even though those would all indisputably be in his power to do as President, I very much doubt he would, for fear of seeming too "radical." This is unfortunate, because it is impossible to achieve radical goals without "seeming radical." If Rand in fact becomes President and does one of the things I listed above, I'd be pleasantly surprised.
 
Depends what you mean by radical. In moderate circles, yes, Rand Paul is a radical. Even in conservative circles, Rand Paul remains a radical. In libertarian circles, probably not.
 
A true radical wouldn't worry about what stuffed-shirt Republicans think of him in order to get elected. Rand is becoming more mainstream every day. A good thing for politics, but not for the radical change we need.
 
I voted yes, because I consider Rand a fairly radical social-conservative, whose position on abortion is waaay outside of American mainstream.

I don't know what 'minarchist' means.
 
No he's not.

He feels the same way as I do, but not the way most of this forum does. Prime example is 75+ pages of defending Adam Kokesh, who I do see as a radical and who was banned from Paul events.

But wasn't he banned by Benton? There are probably a lot of us here that Benton wouldn't like. That argument doesn't seem persuasive to me.
 
But wasn't he banned by Benton? There are probably a lot of us here that Benton wouldn't like. That argument doesn't seem persuasive to me.

Who knows, but I would have. Are you forgetting the venomous videos being put out by Kokesh??? I wouldn't have wanted him 5 miles within Ron's vicinity.
 
A true radical wouldn't worry about what stuffed-shirt Republicans think of him in order to get elected. Rand is becoming more mainstream every day.
So, you are saying that his father is a liar, right? The same father that said that he and his son agreed on 99% of the issues. Oh, I think I understand now, Ron also said this. "People Try To Drive Wedges Between Rand And Me." It seems like you fit that description well.

A good thing for politics, but not for the radical change we need.

Someone who acted like you wanted wouldn't stand a chance at getting elected. Rand has the principles AND he has the pragmatism to get them across to people. Something we have needed for so very long.
 
His father is a radical and always went head-on against the status quo. His son does not have the integrity and character his father has I afraid. :(
 
For crying out loud, it should be crystal clear why Ron made that 99% comment. He's supporting his son AS A FATHER.

Of course he doesn't want a wedge between him and his own son...they're FAMILY.

That doesn't mean, at least to me, that Ron and Rand are literally only 1% apart on issues; nor does it make Ron a liar for making the comment. Since opinions aren't measured quantitatively anyway, it's pretty much meaningless.
 
His father is a radical and always went head-on against the status quo. His son does not have the integrity and character his father has I afraid. :(

Give me a freaking break, Donnay!!

"We do have some differences and our approaches will be different, but that makes him his own person. I mean why should he [Rand] be a clone and do everything and think just exactly as I have. I think it's an opportunity to be independent minded. We are about 99% the same on issues." "People Try To Drive Wedges Between Rand And Me." --Ron Paul

Don't you think his father knows?

Rand is using an approach that is getting through to people that RON COULD NOT REACH. And we have to reach them, if we stand a chance in hell. Why can't some of you understand that? WE are not the audience. But, we are acting like such crybabies and panty waists that we resemble his worst enemies. It is flat out disgusting.
 
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For crying out loud, it should be crystal clear why Ron made that 99% comment. He's supporting his son AS A FATHER.

Of course he doesn't want a wedge between him and his own son...they're FAMILY.

That doesn't mean, at least to me, that Ron and Rand are literally only 1% apart on issues; nor does it make Ron a liar for making the comment. Since opinions aren't measured quantitatively anyway, it's pretty much meaningless.

I could care less what YOU think, as your behavior is of that of a troll, at best, and a plant, at worst.
 
His father is a radical and always went head-on against the status quo. His son does not have the integrity and character his father has I afraid. :(
You may as well have told LE that Justin Bieber is ugly. :rolleyes:
 
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