Is piercing a baby's ears "abuse"/violation of NAP?
- Thread starter eduardo89
- Start date
osan
Member
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2009
- Messages
- 16,866
Your response was structured vaguely enough to readily allow the inference to be made, particularly when forwarded in question form as I did. I stated nothing positive, but asked if that was where you drew the line because your statements allowed for that while implying nothing more.
I note your failure to address the questions posed. I consider the issue closed.
heavenlyboy34
Member
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2008
- Messages
- 59,093
Eduardo should check that out. The vid even has spanish subtitles.
heavenlyboy34
Member
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2008
- Messages
- 59,093
Yep, and there's fake, moral grandstanding on the other side as well. We've got pro-life, pro-individual rights types who at the same time favor genital mutilation on children too young to consent-a clear violation of individual rights.
eduardo89
Banned
- Joined
- Jan 29, 2009
- Messages
- 21,295
I will check it out, because I'm open to (almost) every idea. Although from what I've already researched in the past, I'm highly doubtful it will change my mind. I still have a few years to completely form my opinion before I have a son, though. So who knows what will happen, but right now I'm 99% certain that when I have a son he'll be circumcised.
PolicyReader
Member
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2012
- Messages
- 3,399
I personally wouldn't choose to do it, however my ears aren't pierced and that factors into the situation for me (Golden rule an' all even in small things)
That being said I don't think that circumcision is really comparable (i.e. I don't think an ear can be said to be as big of a deal) because of the long term impacts of each.
Both male and female circumcision can be detrimental (male is closer to neutral female is almost universally just a damaging act) where as a simple piercing is a much more minor effect.
2c
ps ~ as an uncircumcised male (and without getting graphic) I can say that I've been subject to fewer problems as well as had fewer health issues/discomforts to deal with than my circumcised peers. Also most of my family are doctors and they consider it a "cosmetic" procedure (meaning one done for reasons that have no basis in good bodily health).
Last edited:
Ear Piercing - up to the parent. I have friends from south american countries, puerto rico, and other places that it's like a custom to have their daughters' ears pierced by 3 months old. then I have friends who think no one should pierce any part of their body ever, not even as an adult. I fall in the middle. My ex wanted our daughter's ears pierced years ago but he only sees her three times and year and I'm the one that has to deal with it. I had terrible trouble with my ears when I was a young girl and again as an adult when I had the top cartilage pierced, so I feared that maybe my DNA could do the same with my daughter. I did not want to deal with pain and infections in a little kid so I waited. She begged and begged, her father begged and begged, and I finally allowed it this past December when she was 9.5 years old. Sure enough, they STILL are not healed and believe me, we have cleaned and rotated the earrings and done everything we can. They still hurt her and swell up, exactly like mine did. Sorry for the crappy DNA contribution kiddo 
She is wearing pure gold and they still react. Fun stuff! so - up to the parent but I am glad I waited and probably should not have given in a few months ago (my original timeline was age 12).
As for the Circ - it's a north american phenomenon but I still think it should be up to the parents. As long as they are aware of the pros and cons of both sides and make an informed decision. My first child was born in England and since I didnt run around asking men if they were circ'd or not (lol), I had no idea that it is not routinely done there until I asked. We were stuck in hospital for 9 days after his birth so I asked at some point when he would be circ'd. The midwife looked baffled and finally said "Are you Jewish?". I said 'umm no??' and she said 'Oh, because we don't really do that unless there is a medical necessity for it, or for religious reasons'. Then she walked away still looking at me like I was bonkers haha. I grew up in Canada thinking it was the normal thing that 'everybody does'. I was surprised to learn that they don't do that in most European countries unless necessary or religious. That led to me looking into it more when I had my next two kids. One turned out to be a girl so I only had to face the ear piercing
But the last was a boy and his dad had no idea it was not a necessity anymore, and it was no longer covered by basic insurance because of that. It costs between $250 and $300. He wanted it done but I didnt.
I asked him why and he said 'because, well I guess a son should look like his father? it looks cleaner? I dont really know'. I responded that a little boy seeing his dad in the shower isnt going to think his bits look like his dad's anyway haha and then when he found out that his sister's son had a problem and the little cover they put on for healing grew into his skin and he needed it surgically removed - well that was the end of the negotiations on the spot. So neither of my sons are circ'd and I work in daycare and less than 25% of the boys we have had over the past decade have had it done. Mostly because people don't want to pay for it I would imagine. I think it used to be that 65% of boys in my province were circ'd, but now it's the other way around with more than 65% NOT being circ'd.
But still, I think all up to the parents. I personally do not like it and am glad I didn't have the boys done. But Im not going to stand on a soap box and tell everyone else what to do.
edit to add: No offense to anyone here that might have this kind of piercing - but more and more often I am seeing the HUGE ear piercings where there is a gaping hole or a huge wide bolt shoved in there. OUCH. I secretly laugh sometimes and picture them in the future as old grannies and grampies with their grandchildren playing games of 'lets peek through the ear hole'. Seriously - in old age the ear lobes can get massive (I think because they don't stop growing??? Im trying to remember biology class lol), and thinking of these massive 3/4 in holes in people's ears being an inch or two wide by the time they are 80. Ew. lol
She is wearing pure gold and they still react. Fun stuff! so - up to the parent but I am glad I waited and probably should not have given in a few months ago (my original timeline was age 12).As for the Circ - it's a north american phenomenon but I still think it should be up to the parents. As long as they are aware of the pros and cons of both sides and make an informed decision. My first child was born in England and since I didnt run around asking men if they were circ'd or not (lol), I had no idea that it is not routinely done there until I asked. We were stuck in hospital for 9 days after his birth so I asked at some point when he would be circ'd. The midwife looked baffled and finally said "Are you Jewish?". I said 'umm no??' and she said 'Oh, because we don't really do that unless there is a medical necessity for it, or for religious reasons'. Then she walked away still looking at me like I was bonkers haha. I grew up in Canada thinking it was the normal thing that 'everybody does'. I was surprised to learn that they don't do that in most European countries unless necessary or religious. That led to me looking into it more when I had my next two kids. One turned out to be a girl so I only had to face the ear piercing
But the last was a boy and his dad had no idea it was not a necessity anymore, and it was no longer covered by basic insurance because of that. It costs between $250 and $300. He wanted it done but I didnt. I asked him why and he said 'because, well I guess a son should look like his father? it looks cleaner? I dont really know'. I responded that a little boy seeing his dad in the shower isnt going to think his bits look like his dad's anyway haha and then when he found out that his sister's son had a problem and the little cover they put on for healing grew into his skin and he needed it surgically removed - well that was the end of the negotiations on the spot. So neither of my sons are circ'd and I work in daycare and less than 25% of the boys we have had over the past decade have had it done. Mostly because people don't want to pay for it I would imagine. I think it used to be that 65% of boys in my province were circ'd, but now it's the other way around with more than 65% NOT being circ'd.
But still, I think all up to the parents. I personally do not like it and am glad I didn't have the boys done. But Im not going to stand on a soap box and tell everyone else what to do.
edit to add: No offense to anyone here that might have this kind of piercing - but more and more often I am seeing the HUGE ear piercings where there is a gaping hole or a huge wide bolt shoved in there. OUCH. I secretly laugh sometimes and picture them in the future as old grannies and grampies with their grandchildren playing games of 'lets peek through the ear hole'. Seriously - in old age the ear lobes can get massive (I think because they don't stop growing??? Im trying to remember biology class lol), and thinking of these massive 3/4 in holes in people's ears being an inch or two wide by the time they are 80. Ew. lol
Last edited:
freeforall
Member
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2011
- Messages
- 970
Will you watch them perform the procedure?
eduardo89
Banned
- Joined
- Jan 29, 2009
- Messages
- 21,295
Of course I would. Not that I'd know if they're doing it right or wrong.
freeforall
Member
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2011
- Messages
- 970
It wouldn't bother you to watch them strap your son to a body board and use a tool to separate the skin from the glans?
Last edited:
eduardo89
Banned
- Joined
- Jan 29, 2009
- Messages
- 21,295
It probably wouldn't be an especially pleasant thing to watch, I've never said it would be. But as a "victim" of circumcision I know you don't remember any of it and personally I'm glad it was done to me. When I have a son I'm 99.9% sure I'll get it done on him. Even if that makes me a monster.
In my city, the two docs who do circ's do not allow the parents in the room. That was another deciding factor for us. In fact, one's office requires parents to completely LEAVE THE BUILDING! They cannot even stay in the waiting room. No freaking way is someone doing surgery on my child if I cannot even be in the building! The desk nurse happily told me that some parents go next door to the pharmacy to look around or go to the convenience store to get a drink. Um.. What? So that was another deciding factor for me. I have never not been in the room for any procedure, not even when my 2 year old needed an IV put in and they were having trouble. Nurses tried to make me leave (I was not speaking, not in their way, literally standing at the door watching quietly), and I said 'no way' calmly but I'm sure I looked evil so they left me there lol. But when my bf found out he had to leave the whole building to have our son's circ done, he was completely convinced we were not going to do it. I breathed a sigh of relief personally. But I just thought I would share that little tidbit.
heavenlyboy34
Member
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2008
- Messages
- 59,093
So, when is your daughter's clitoridectomy scheduled?
eduardo89
Banned
- Joined
- Jan 29, 2009
- Messages
- 21,295
Seriously comparing the two again? Come on HB, I know you're smarter than this.
freeforall
Member
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2011
- Messages
- 970
Please watch a video of this procedure being done before making a decision. Also, research what could happen when a circumcision goes wrong. It happens.
Did you know that in the US circumcision gained popularity to prevent masturbation?
eduardo89
Banned
- Joined
- Jan 29, 2009
- Messages
- 21,295
I've checked out the risks.
And why it gained popularity is irrelevant to my choice. Although, I can tell you for a fact, it does not slow a teenage boy down one bit
heavenlyboy34
Member
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2008
- Messages
- 59,093
Yeah, we went through that a few pages ago. But genital mutilation is genital mutilation. Varying degrees doesn't change the principle. You tried to compare ear piercing to circumcision a few pages back, so you're not in a position to call me out on this.
heavenlyboy34
Member
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2008
- Messages
- 59,093
Tradition trumps individual rights, science, empirical evidence, and rational thought on this subject to Eduardo. (and many others in the world) I haz teh sad.
freeforall
Member
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2011
- Messages
- 970
I've checked out the risks.
And why it gained popularity is irrelevant to my choice. Although, I can tell you for a fact, it does not slow a teenage boy down one bit
I can also tell you from experience that an uncut partner is more pleasurable.
eduardo89
Banned
- Joined
- Jan 29, 2009
- Messages
- 21,295
Yeah, we went through that a few pages ago. But genital mutilation is genital mutilation. Varying degrees doesn't change the principle. You tried to compare ear piercing to circumcision a few pages back, so you're not in a position to call me out on this.
This whole thread was a trolling attempt btw with comparing ear piercing to circ
Similar threads
