Is One World Goverment so bad after all?

Was John Lennon an evil UN NWO conspirator when he wrote about this in his song "Imagine"?

lol no of course not, its a good song. He might have recognized this dream to be unrealistic though, or perhaps he never thought that a one world government would do a piss poor job of representing all the different peoples/views.

Ignoring the fact that all the politicians today who push for a one world are corrupt and have malicious intentions in mind.... I'm simply against a one world government because I think it would not be able to represent each group of people's desires. Say for instance a group of people in Asia have "always" been apart of this constitutional one world republic, and they manage to be unhappy with this system. Someone from this Asian region crafts a socialist like government plan, and he gains support from the people but cannot implement the plan. This would prevent the Asian people from testing the socialist system and learning how crappy socialism is, they would never have a comparison in which to appreciate liberty. The world would never have a comparison to see that socialism is garbage (outside what has happened in the forgotten past). Most people need to learn by direct experience, not everyone is smart enough like you and me, to know that a limited constitutional government which grants full liberty is the best option.

Sure I want all peoples of the globe to have liberty, but I want them to consciously arrive at it, not have it compelled upon them via a benevolant one world government.
 
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You know how you feel you have little control over what the federal government does? Imagine what it would be like if it was WORLD government. The corruption would be far worse than it is today and you would have very little to no way to influence it. Our founders understood all this. That is why the majority of the power was intended to be close to us; it was left to the states and the people, and they tried, through the Constitution, to strictly limit the role of the federal government.

Also, you know that Constitution that we want reinstated? With world government, you can kiss that goodbye.
 
I post on these forums seeking honest discussion and honest debate in a friendly environment and atmosphere. There was no need to resort to petty name calling; it shines badly on you and the Ron Paul movement as a whole. His whole Philosophy is built around the freedom of expresion of the individual; no where have I tried to stifle yours, or anyone elses, and by resorting to just insulting others it makes others think less of you. Not for your opinions, but how you present them and your lack of respect for others.



Back to the issues, though. The poster who refered to man handling himself is dead on. I was at a nature talk when I was younger, where a man who spent his whole life training and breeding birds said how terrible it was the local forest authority would cut down old trees and place new ones, because the dead trees themselves provide a habitat and nutrients for so much of the rest of the local eco-system.

Nature has had a funny knack of, for hundreds of thousands of years, of taking care of itself. The same can be said for man. Intervening to protect nature doesn't, generally, work. It's man's intervention to protect, and destroy, nature that leads to problems.

Nature has had 'freedom' before man's agricultural development. We are constantly meddling and intervening in nature; were animals and trees to, as an extreme, have equal rights of human beings, no Libertarian could argue for the subjugation of Birch trees for Paper at the expense of their liberty.

We could debate over the ramifications for the environment if man does not change his ways until the sun goes down; suffice to say, I don't think many people can agree that the current proceedings are sustainable. It is the number of human beings and the rapid rapid rate we are breeding that is part of the core of the world's problems.

[Quick note: I'm responding to your overall arguments, not just the ones in the quote above.]

You're operating from the false premise that we're breeding at an astronomical rate and that this expansion needs to be stopped. However, consider the fact that all of the overbreeding occurs in underdeveloped nations. Western, industrialized nations are tending closer and closer to a "replacement rate" of population growth. I imagine this might be because kids are probably considered "worker bees" to some extent in poorer nations (where children can be coerced into labor), whereas the richer a population gets, the more certain segments tend to focus on other things in life besides procreation and family (not that everyone does). The only real reason industrialized western populations are even still growing is because of immigration from poorer countries. If we get rid of excessive government and let the free market work, wealth around the world will slowly tend toward equilibrium, and eventually, population growth will stop.

In addition, if socialism was ended and personal responsibility reintroduced, people in industrialized nations would be even less likely to have kids they can't afford. If the population grows to a level that cannot be sustained by our resources, prices will rise and make it tougher for people to make ends meet - which will discourage them from having more kids that they cannot feed.

In other words, the population problem can, does, and will solve itself through economic means, without any government intervention. We don't need China-like controls on reproduction. We don't need the NWO to kill off 90% of the population through manufactured famine, disease, and war so we can start expanding again.

Also, I agree that if we regarded animals and even plants as having the same fundamental rights of humans, laws would certainly be much different - and it would be quite difficult for you to find food unless you learn to photosynthesize. However, the day is quite far away when vegetarians and vegans convince the majority of the population to share their basic assumptions, and I think we can disregard this for now. If we can agree for now that our laws should be constructed solely to protect the rights of human beings, the problem becomes much simpler.

Do I agree that our current course is not "sustainable?" Yes, I do - and that's exactly why it can and will change of its own accord without intervention from some monolithic world government. Local and national pollution concerns can and should be handled on the basis of property rights - if you dump waste in a river, you should expect to be literally be sued out of existence (Does this happen today? No, it doesn't - but that's why our government is called "corrupt," and another layer of government and/or more centralized government can only exacerbate that problem.).

Furthermore, the idea that global environmental problems can only be solved by a supranational one world government is a complete myth born from a complacent lack of imagination. Just a few poorly illustrated examples:
  • Rainforests? That's simply not our problem - that's South America's problem. They can deal with their rainforests however they please, depending on how much they value them - they certainly have a much more vested interest than we do. Back in the day, we thought that without rainforests, we'd be starved for oxygen. We've since learned that this is in fact not true, and rainforests contribute little net oxygen to the atmosphere. All of the oxygen we need to breathe is recycled locally, and as far as I know, development and deforestation have not in fact depleted oxygen levels in the atmosphere. Why is rainforest deforestation actually our problem? Furthermore, assuming it is our problem, why does this in any way necessitate world government? Can it not be solved in another way?
  • Endangered species? Seriously, species die out ALL the time. Are we the cause for that? Sometimes we can be, but before us, other species caused it. Most species that have ever lived are already extinct, and it's just not any government's responsibility to protect them (if you care about a species, protect it yourself, but it's not the government's problem). It's called natural selection. Species that are strong and well-adapted to their environment multiply. If ecosystems change due to human influence, the plants and animals will not just all die out. Rather, populations will adapt to their new circumstances and become more hardy and resistant. In a lot of ways, humans are doing other species a favor by contributing to their further evolution and not letting them get too complacent. ;)
  • Global warming? Let's assume for now that it's true - I honestly have no idea. Just a couple decades ago, the head honcho environmentalists were completely convinced of "global cooling." Now it's global warming. I imagine it's possible that humans are affecting the environment via excessive CO2 production from industry...but look at it this way: We're probably not going to have a definitive answer until we're pretty much out of fossil fuels anyway, at which time the problem will become moot. If we REALLY need to cap CO2 levels and/or other emissions, which I think is probably a poor idea, it can easily be handled by treaties between sovereign nations. If it's truly the grave existential threat it's made out to be, treaty-countries can agree only to trade with each other as an incentive for others to join in. Either way - no one world government necessary.
  • Plastic in the ocean: Yeah, it's frickin' gross, I agree...and it'd be nice if we could find someone in particular to answer for it. It's already illegal to dump plastics into the ocean, though - and although this is hard to enforce, world government wouldn't make it any easier - unless of course you're advocating a camera watching every man, woman, and child. What do you suggest world government can do to clean it up or prevent its further growth that nation-states cannot do now? I don't know if it's possible to clean it up or not - if not, the only thing we can do is try to restrict its growth. However, this can only be done by becoming more conscientious as human beings, and that's a social and cultural change that government cannot accomplish. If it IS possible to clean up....then if it starts to kill out marine life to a degree that drastically affects humans, I have a feeling that nearby nations with large fishing industries will start doing something about it all by themselves, because it's hurting their livelihood! Once it actually becomes a problem that threatens people, the people most threatened will solve it. Furthermore, there will always be concerned people donating to environmental charities, and private charities have a history of doing a much better job than government anyway. If it truly becomes a HUGE problem, it can easily be handled by cooperation between affected countries.

Once again, you plain and simply do not need world government for world community. It's just not necessary, but those that would benefit from their own idea of one world government would certainly like to convince you otherwise. Similarly, you just do not need world government for voluntary global cooperation in mutually beneficial endeavors. If sovereign nation-states want, they can demolish trade and travel barriers, and this can and will happen if America gets back on track as a free nation. After the United States was created, other nations around the world started trying to follow in its example, slowly and gradually...but because we were derailed, we could no longer lead by positive example.

Anyway, I find it exceedingly naive that world government proponents see the police state argument as only "one side" of the argument. Is the mere possibility of a worldwide inescapable police state not enough to end further debate? I mean, seriously...you can say "the Constitution would be a good starting point," but look at where the United States started, and look where it's headed now! How can you guarantee this wouldn't happen again? You can put safeguards in place (such as making the Constitution enforceable on government officials under pain of death ;)), but there are never any guarantees. That's why it's such a good idea for the world to have many sovereign nations - national boundaries are the strongest check possible against absolute consolidation of power (and now that all other checks and balances have been eroded, they are finally being attacked). The slow downward spiral in the United States has everything to do with greater centralization of power. It might be possible to stop that from happening again if we started anew with the same Constitution (except amended to be enforceable), but as I mentioned, there are never any guarantees. Also, such a better outcome would be much less likely with world government...and "if" it did end up in tyranny (and it would, even if it started as a true "people's movement"), it would be utterly inescapable for a long time. World government proponents are offering the mouth-watering possibility of utopia, yet they're ignoring the astronomically greater probability of tyranny. As much as I hate today's world, I'd much rather freeze-frame the world of today than gamble the entire fate of humanity on the fidelity of a single government.* (Thankfully, there's a better option than either.)

Throughout world history, tyranny has been the rule, and freedom has been the exception. When there is no other sovereign nation to run to, and when terrestrial government is as far from the people as it can possibly be, do you think it will be easier or harder to keep it accountable to the people? When laws are one-size-fits-all, do you think the reduced jurisdictional competition will be beneficial or detrimental? When laws are one-size-fits-all, do you think the majority of people will like the uniform laws they have no choice but to follow, or do you think they will wish they had more local control?

*Come to think of it...I'm starting to see the primary difference between advocates of national sovereignty vs. world government: Advocates of world government are willing to gamble the fate of the entire world based on the hope that everything would turn out okay, provided there are some safeguards. On the other hand, advocates of national sovereignty are less trusting and more wary of the fallibility of safeguards (and the greater tendency for them to fail under more centralized frameworks). Since there are no guarantees, the risk of a horrendous and nigh-inescapable Orwellian state is a prohibitive danger to advocates of national sovereignty. Plus, even disregarding practical concerns, many advocates of national sovereignty (such as myself) also believe in it on principle.
 
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The laws of nature are not concerned with one world government or national sovereignty. But man's ability or inability to exist harmoniously within nature's balance will decide whether or not nature will allow mankind to continue to exist at all.
 
I read the first post and I'm putting in my two cents. Someone like Ron Paul is rare. This country was founded with values like Ron Paul. Who is to say that a One World Government would work perfectly as stated in the beginning.

There are to many greedy selfish people in the world that are power hungry. These people would find a way to power and that would be the turning point in which it goes from vast democracy to slavery of the Human race.

History has shown us time and time again, these kinds of people, no matter whats put in place to prevent them, find a way in and it just goes down hill from that moment on.
 
I don't know why people obsess over consolidation. Consolidation constantly shows that liberty takes a backseat for conformity and unity. Look at all the things the people of the United States disagree on. Once the union of individual states were consolidated into one nation the people of California had to conform to the standards set forth from the Federal Government 3000 miles away.

The notion that a group of politicians 3000 miles away knows whats best for the local towns of California is not only ridiculous its an impracticality. Standards that work in NY might not work in LA or SF; yet, blanket legislation from Washington will force conformity.

Now take the US on a grand scale. A government in Geneva dictating to the United States to conform to China standards of living. Who determines the standards and why should something that might work well for China work well for the United States? People in all corners of the world disagree on things a lot. Do you really want someone else telling you that you can't protect yourself with a gun? One World government will do that... they will take away your guns and use their authority to promote unity and conformity with their own guns.

Consolidation is never the answer. Liberty always dies with its formation.
 
Furthermore, the idea that global environmental problems can only be solved by a supranational one world government is a complete myth born from a complacent lack of imagination. Just a few poorly illustrated examples:

want a better example? The federal parks are the worst run and worst kept parks in the country. States do a better job at protecting the environment and running the parks. The local people see the day to day activities. Bureaucrats 3000 miles away just see money and what ways can they cut the budget without getting an environmentalist or local people angry
 
So in the end i think people need to stay vigilant and stay rich in order to keep the govt in its place. This is why economic freedom is so important for political freedom. If people loose their economic power, they will probably soon loose their political freedom as well. (A little tax money or bribe money goes a long way to keep the govt at bay.)
Sure. Except that in a laissez faire playing ground, not all the people get rich at the same time or end up having the same level of wealth. And the people who end up richer WILL TEND TO ESTABLISH THE RULES and evolve to gain some form of punitive authority.

The idea behind socialism/communism is exactly to prevent this sort of situation from coming about, that people can agree on certain collective ideals that go beyond wealth.

The idea behind government of/by/for the people is also to prevent those with the most money from establishing rules that work only for themselves.

None of this is intended to say that Ron Paul's ideas are invalid. Just that if you take them to their logical limit, that you will come full circle.
 
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CFR = Dangerous People

Just made this thing up last night inspired by the game Mass Effect. What do you think about it?

I think this is exactly the purpose of this bull**** you are hearing on TV, seeing in the news and being exposed to in the educational system.

It's part of the massive propaganda and it worked on YOU. :mad:

Here is something you ought to consider. Only RON PAUL would have had the guts to stop it. Somehow I think that future generations are going to have to rise up and oppose this themselves if they don't want to be absorbed.

If you think this is good, you can KISS FREEDOM GOODBYE.

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There are significant issues mentioned in Robert A. Pastor's "North America: A Partial Eclipse and a Future Community" (highlights added):

1) Pastor wrote: "NAFTA became the first draft of a constitution of North America, but it was defined in very narrow and business-like terms." (p.3)

2) Pastor discusses Canadian, Mexican, and U.S. citizens' opinions about formation of a "North American Union," "one state or a union," "a union in a new North American entity," "continental political union," and "reconfiguration of the North American political system" (see p.13)

3) Written in the endnotes: "In the 1970s, the Carter Administration proposed a number of possible agreements to minimise trade disputes, and Ronald Reagan, during his campaign and his Administration, also proposed a 'North American Accord,' a free trade agreement." (p.15) (Take note that Pastor served with the National Security Council (Carter Presidency) as the Latin American and Caribbean Affairs Director.)

And there is more -- read excerpts below or download pdf:

http://www.american.edu/ia/cnas/pdfs/workingpaper5_rp_hussain.pdf

Page 5:

An evaluation of NAFTA should not be confined just to trade and investment criteria or the side agreements. One needs to view NAFTA as the center of a unique social and economic integration process and of an effort to redefine the relationship between advanced countries and a developing one.

The flow of people, cultures, food, music, and sports across the two borders have accelerated even more than the trade in goods and services. . . .

Page 6-7:

Some proponents of NAFTA argued erroneously that free trade would reduce the flow of migrants, but the opposite happened because the development strategy implicit in NAFTA encourages foreign investment near the border, which serves as a magnet to attract labor from the center and the south of Mexico. Surveys suggest that roughly 90 percent of all Mexican illegal migrants leave jobs to come to the United States; they seek higher wages. Illegal migration is unlikely to shrink until the income gap begins to narrow.

Page 7:

It is time to stop debating NAFTA and start addressing North America's new agenda. We need to begin by articulating a vision of a North American Community . . .

Page 8:

North America is different from Europe, but it should learn from the experience, and establish a North American Investment Fund that would invest $20 billion per year for a decade to build roads to connect the south and center of Mexico to the United States. Mexico should provide half of the funds; the U.S., 40%, and Canada, 10%. The funds should be administered by the World Bank.

[. . .]

To compete against China and India, the three leaders need to help North American businesses to become more efficient by negotiating a Customs Union in five years. This would eliminate costly "rules of origin" procedures and needless inspections, . . .

Page 9:

The three leaders [of Mexico, Canada, U.S.] should hold annual summits, but to make sure the meetings are not just photo-ops, a North American Advisory Council should be established. Unlike Europe's Commision, the Council should be lean, independent, and advisory. It should prepare the agenda with proposals on North American transportation, the environment, education, and other issues. The Europeans provide about $3 million each year to support 10 EU [European Union] Centers in the U.S., but the three governments of North America provide no support for North American studies anywhere.

Page 12:

In the 1990 world values survey, about one-fourth of the Canadian and Mexican population were in favor of erasing the border with the United States, and nearly half (46 per cent) of Americans favored eliminating the border with Canada. 27 In 2000, a survey of American attitudes found Americans still evenly divided about doing away with the Mexican border. The Mexicans agree with the Americans on this issue. Fifty-five per cent of Mexicans oppose doing away with the border with the United States, and only 36 per cent favor it. 28

Page 13:

When Mexicans, Canadians, or Americans are asked whether they are prepared to give up their cultural identity in order to form one state or a union, all overwhelmingly reject the proposition. But when the question is asked whether they would be prepared to form a single country if that would mean a higher quality of life for their country, a majority of the people in all three countries answer affirmatively. 29

Forty-three per cent of Canadian think it 'would be a good thing to be part of a North American Union in ten years,' and only 27 percent think it would be a bad thing. Moreover, nearly one-half (49 per cent) think North American Union is likely to happen. As with the Mexicans, Canadians are much more willing to contemplate a union in a new North American entity than to be part of the United States. A majority (57 percent) would oppose joining the United States while only 23 percent would consider it.30 When asked whether Canada and the United States should have a common currency, the Canadian public split 45 per cent in favor, and 44 per cent opposed. 31 This suggests that Canadians are much further along than their leaders in thinking about some of the practical, but sensitive, questions of integration.

For the American public, a relatively higher percentage favor continental political union than is true of Mexicans and Canadians. Support for union soars when the contingency options e.g., if that would mean a better quality of life, etc. are included. In 1990, 81 per cent of Americans said they would favor forming one country with Canada if it meant a better quality of life, and 79 per cent agreed if it meant the environment would get better. 32 These numbers declined a bit in 2000 but remained relatively high 63 per cent approved of forming one country if it would improve the quality of life, and 48 per cent if the environment would get better but they remained high. 33 When one disaggregates the data, younger and wealthier Americans are readier to contemplate political union than older or poorer citizens. 34


What should one conclude from this data? First, the majority of the people in all three countries are prepared to contemplate a reconfiguration of the North American political system provided they can be convinced that it will produce a higher quality of life and handle problems like the environment more effectively than if these are done by each country. Secondly, the principal motive is economic, the approach is pragmatic, and the main drawback is the fear of its effect on culture and identity. To the extent that people perceive their cultures at risk, they resist integration. Third, younger people are more connected and ready to experiment with new political forms and so the prospects for future integration are likely to get better. Fourth, as Karl Deutsch predicted a half century ago, more contact and trust among peoples can facilitate integration, which, in turn, can increase trust. In disaggregating the data on a regional basis, one finds greater support for integration among those regions with the most contact - i.e., the southwest of the United States and the northern part of Mexico and on the Canadian border. 35 The underlying basis of a community exists. Provided people are not threatened by a loss of culture or identity, and incentives for productivity and improvements for standard of living are evident, the three peoples of North America are ready to listen to ideas, including political union, on how to accomplish those ends.

A North American Community is an idea so compelling that it will, sooner or later, emerge as a frontier issue. . . .



Also:
The Future of North America: Replacing a Bad Neighbor Policy

by Robert. A Pastor

(this is only a partial article since you have to be a member)
http://www.foreignaffairs.org/20080701faessay87406/robert-a-pastor/the-future-of-north-america.html
---

Once again, using "racial identity" as the issue most likely to cause people to balk at this (phony of course) they are trying to sell this poison to the Generally Dumb Public by making them feel guilty. (I have been told that anyone who doesn't want open borders is a racist...)

I wonder if they asked the GDP if they would mind losing their CONSTITUTION and BILL OF RIGHTS in this process, and the fact that Congress would no longer be in charge (not that it has been at this point for a very long time) and some NGO elitists would be making all the decisions?

WAKE UP AMERICA. :eek:
 
A OWG is an absolutely horrible idea. There is no government that can support 6 billion people. It's a completely ludicrous idea. If our government can't support 300 million people, then how can any government support more than that? Won't happen in a positive way. If it happens then it will happen like all past empires happened, ruled by fear, oppression, and poverty and an elite few at the top.
 
You're wrong

I recently realized that it should not surprise us that Ron Paul, being from Texas, would have a strong streak of independence-from-federal-government in his thinking. He certainly makes his case very well most of the time, but it does not mean alternative points of view are necessarily wrong.

Anyone who thinks 'ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT' is a good idea should NOT be supporting Ron Paul or even on these forums spreading this poison.

Have you no shame?
 
A OWG is an absolutely horrible idea. There is no government that can support 6 billion people. It's a completely ludicrous idea. If our government can't support 300 million people, then how can any government support more than that? Won't happen in a positive way. If it happens then it will happen like all past empires happened, ruled by fear, oppression, and poverty and an elite few at the top.

um, but what about the Galactic Republic, in Star Wars?
 
Don't mess with Texas

When people talk about global community, why do they always assume governments?I want us to engage in peace, commerce, and trade with the global community, however I have no interest in paying taxes to someone who sits in Geneva.


APPLAUSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (now here is a smart person!)

The best time is to destroy it is now.

I agree... and apparently others are finding out how dangerous it is.. This just in from our fearless leader:

A Major Victory for Texas
"I am pleased to report that last week we received notice that the Texas Department of Transportation will recommend the I-69 Project be developed using existing highway facilities instead of the proposed massive new Trans Texas Corridor/NAFTA Superhighway. According to the Texas Transportation Commissioner, consideration is no longer being given to new corridors and other proposals for a new highway footprint for this project. A major looming threat to property rights and national sovereignty is removed with this encouraging announcement."

Click here for the full article: http://www.house.gov/paul/tst/tst2008/tst062308.htm
 
Not convinced

Obviously its not so easy to arrange, and its more a dream than reality, but its a pretty cool concept. Not being a citizen of any country is really as free as anyone can get.

Edit: There is even a name for such free world citizens and tax evaders.. "perpetual traveler" aka "permanent tourist" aka "prior taxpayer".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_traveler

Cheers

I prefer to form and live in a country with a government that is based on freedom, not on the 'god' being the centralized state as OWG would be. Sorry...but it is shocking that any of you would even suggest something like this.
 
The end of the United States, the Constitution, and the bill of Rights.

A world government, complete with a world army, a world court, global taxation, and powers to control education, nutrition, health care, population, immigration, communications, transportation, commerce, agriculture, finance, and the environment.

Welcome to your "Brave New World."

You left out one other thing: power to exterminate/euthanize

AutoDas and others promoting world government are either stupid or trolls.
 
One more thing:

Consolidation, Centralization and Control...

Consolidating governments makes for centralization, and centralization makes for better control, OF YOU. You would have less control and say in what goes on, even less than you do now.

This is why it is so important to keep our State's Rights and this is what we here in NH understand and why we are trying so hard to keep NH independent of the Feds as much as possible.

The Feds have taken control over education and the Feds have been taken over by the UN and thus, the UN propaganda for 'world gov't' is rampant in the schools, thus poisoning the minds of the young people you are reading here.
 
Stamp out OWG

Even a true communistic system would be wonderful, but it is utopistic.

I think I just lost my breakfast.


At first I thought you were just being a MAJOR troll but now I think you ARE nuts.

The main reason we support Dr. Paul is because he supports our freedom and sovereignty and is opposed to OWG.

Why are YOU here?
 
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