Is It Wrong To Strip Everything From Your House In Revenge Against Your Bank?

[newbitech]

Unless the banks violated the contract, the contract is valid. Unless the contract was signed under duress or there was a coercive force, the contract is otherwise valid. The only person who is at fault for not reading, understanding, or otherwise knowing what they have signed, is the person who agrees to pay whatever the contract deems valid.

This is a load of horseshit coming out of some people on this board. It isn't the fault of the banks that you can't afford the payments, or the payments were changed when you signed an ARM. That is your fault, plain and simple. You should have negotiated a contract that you could have afforded. It isn't your house until you pay off the whole of the contract; ie loan. Damaging property doesn't help the Economy. Read some Hazlitt and learn about the broken glass fallacy.

This kind of shit pisses me off. Because some fuck heads didn't understand their contract that gives them some sort of right to damage property they don't own? If the bank nullifies it's own contract, then you are entitled to the property in whole. If you nullify the contract (IE stop paying the mortgage), you forfeit the house back to the owner; the bank.

All I am seeing in this thread is a bunch of "stick it to the man" with no clear principles, values, or understanding behind an economy, contracts, and rule of law. Such hypocrisy.

How about if the banks LIED about their intentions to have the contract fulfilled in the first place? Still think that is a valid contract? The banks never expected these contracts to be fulfilled. In fact, the banks took actions to make sure that they weren't. Fraud. I don't think you know what a valid contract is. I am not even going to mention the evidence of fraud. I don't think you are interested in that.

stereotyping and generalizations. every situation is different. too bad you can't apply that to your understanding. You have no idea what the contract was in this video. You have formed an opinion based on something other than your own experience, which tells me you are either being manipulated OR you are completely comfortable forming opinions that favor your limited understanding and experience regardless of the facts of the situation.

If that is all you are seeing that is your fault for only seeing what you want to see. If you don't understand that this entire mortgage industry has been and still is based on fraud, then you will never understand why the only recourse that many homeowners have is to strip the property.

And you still think homeowners don't own their property. There is your biggest problem right there.

 

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

stereotyping and generalizations. every situation is different. too bad you can't apply that to your understanding. You have no idea what the contract was in this video. You have formed an opinion based on something other than your own experience, which tells me you are either being manipulated OR you are completely comfortable forming opinions that favor your limited understanding and experience regardless of the facts of the situation.

If that is all you are seeing that is your fault for only seeing what you want to see. If you don't understand that this entire mortgage industry has been and still is based on fraud, then you will never understand why the only recourse that many homeowners have is to strip the property.

No. I understand how contracts function, and how a society will become completely and utterly decimated especially, one based on concepts of a Free-Market when the rule of law (Contracts), are arbitrarily dismissed.

Did you not read my post? You voluntarily agreed to the contract, did you not? Did the bank violate any stipulations within that contract? Did you violate any of the stipulations set forth in the contract? A contract IS black and white. It sets out the parameters of the agreement, and is legally binding. Without contracts there is no market or economy.

It seems to me you are trying to deflect blame onto others for your poor choices. Did you sign an ARM? Did you purchase a house you couldn't realistically afford? Who's at fault for those decisions? Are the pernicious and evil banks at fault? Did they somehow hold your arm and force you to sign the contract? If you cannot abide by the parameters then you forfeit the property. The property is not legally yours until you fully pay off the loan. It's no different with any other loan.

You can try and negotiate the terms of your contract afterwards, but if both parties do not agree to the new terms, then the previous contract is still the only legal and valid agreement.

It seems to me, you do not understand how society and economies function. I am not generalizing, I am telling you how economies function. By destroying property that isn't yours, YOU should go to jail. Everyone else who violates contracts should also go to jail, and or pay remunerative and compensority costs. So, if the bank DID violate the contract, the violaters should go to jail and or forfeit the property.

It seems to me, that you cannot afford the contract, so you decide that as soon as you signed the contract that the property was yours, and not the banks....You sound like a certain criminal group *cough* ACORN *cough*.

Please tell me. Did the bank violate your contract? What is the fraud? The only matter about your property is if the mortgage payments are legally binding; that is, within the constraints of the contract that was mutually signed. IT IS VERY SIMPLE.

 

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

How about if the banks LIED about their intentions to have the contract fulfilled in the first place? Still think that is a valid contract? The banks never expected these contracts to be fulfilled. In fact, the banks took actions to make sure that they weren't. Fraud. I don't think you know what a valid contract is. I am not even going to mention the evidence of fraud. I don't think you are interested in that.

stereotyping and generalizations. every situation is different. too bad you can't apply that to your understanding. You have no idea what the contract was in this video. You have formed an opinion based on something other than your own experience, which tells me you are either being manipulated OR you are completely comfortable forming opinions that favor your limited understanding and experience regardless of the facts of the situation.

If that is all you are seeing that is your fault for only seeing what you want to see. If you don't understand that this entire mortgage industry has been and still is based on fraud, then you will never understand why the only recourse that many homeowners have is to strip the property.

And you still think homeowners don't own their property. There is your biggest problem right there.

No, you don't own the property until it is fully paid off. When you "sell" your house, do you get to keep all the money? NO! You have to pay the rest of your loan off otherwise the house still belongs to the bank. You don't simply "own" the house as soon as you sign the initial contract. You may "own" it in the sense that you have full autonomy over the property as long as you follow the contract (pay the mortgage), but as soon as you default, you still don't get to keep the property do you?

You still haven't answered the question. Did the bank violate the contract stipulations? Or DID you buy a house that was over valued, and suddenly you find yourself underwater? WHO's DAMN FAULT IS THAT? You voluntarily signed the contract, you made the decision, no one else.

 

[newbitech]

No. I understand how contracts function, and how a society will become completely and utterly decimated especially, one based on concepts of a Free-Market when the rule of law (Contracts), are arbitrarily dismissed.

Did you not read my post? You voluntarily agreed to the contract, did you not? Did the bank violate any stipulations within that contract? Did you violate any of the stipulations set forth in the contract? A contract IS black and white. It sets out the parameters of the agreement, and is legally binding. Without contracts there is no market or economy.

It seems to me you are trying to deflect blame onto others for your poor choices. Did you sign an ARM? Did you purchase a house you couldn't realistically afford? Who's at fault for those decisions? Are the pernicious and evil banks at fault? Did they somehow hold your arm and force you to sign the contract? If you cannot abide by the parameters then you forfeit the property. The property is not legally yours until you fully pay off the loan. It's no different with any other loan.

You can try and negotiate the terms of your contract afterwards, but if both parties do not agree to the new terms, then the previous contract is still the only legal and valid agreement.

It seems to me, you do not understand how society and economies function. I am not generalizing, I am telling you how economies function. By destroying property that isn't yours, YOU should go to jail. Everyone else who violates contracts should also go to jail, and or pay remunerative and compensority costs. So, if the bank DID violate the contract, the violaters should go to jail and or forfeit the property.

It seems to me, that you cannot afford the contract, so you decide that as soon as you signed the contract that the property was yours, and not the banks....You sound like a certain criminal group *cough* ACORN *cough*.

Please tell me. Did the bank violate your contract? What is the fraud? The only matter about your property is if the mortgage payments are legally binding; that is, within the constraints of the contract that was mutually signed. IT IS VERY SIMPLE.

I stopped reading right there. We volunteered on good faith that the bank was going to honor the terms of the contract. Including the terms that BOTH sides were entering the contract legally. Fraud is illegal. The bank was involved in illegal activity by making the offer in the first place because the offer was fraudulent. The bank intended to take my home without paying for it and tried to use a piece of paper with my signature to do it. The bank told me the complete opposite in their offer. Contract invalid because of fraud. I was tricked into signing a document that I thought was meant for financing a mutually profitable agreement. I now have evidence that their was never an intent for either party to profit. I have even tried to resolve the fraud on my own by counter offering to the bank a profitable rework of the terms and the bank has denied that, telling me that they would rather both of us take a loss. Fraud. Never was a contract because the entire process was fraudulent from the offer.

 

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

I stopped reading right there. We volunteered on good faith that the bank was going to honor the terms of the contract. Including the terms that BOTH sides were entering the contract legally. Fraud is illegal. The bank was involved in illegal activity by making the offer in the first place because the offer was fraudulent. The bank intended to take my home without paying for it and tried to use a piece of paper with my signature to do it. The bank told me the complete opposite in their offer. Contract invalid because of fraud. I was tricked into signing a document that I thought was meant for financing a mutually profitable agreement. I now have evidence that their was never an intent for either party to profit. I have even tried to resolve the fraud on my own by counter offering to the bank a profitable rework of the terms and the bank has denied that, telling me that they would rather both of us take a loss. Fraud. Never was a contract because the entire process was fraudulent from the offer.

Did the bank not own the property that they sold you? Are they not accepting the payments? Either scenario invalidates the contract. A contract is black and white. There is no gray within a contract. If they violate the mutually signed contract, the property is yours, and likewise if you violate the contract.

Tell me, how did the bank violate ANY OF THE TERMS WITHIN THE CONTRACT?

 

[newbitech]

No, you don't own the property until it is fully paid off. When you "sell" your house, do you get to keep all the money? NO! You have to pay the rest of your loan off otherwise the house still belongs to the bank. You don't simply "own" the house as soon as you sign the initial contract. You may "own" it in the sense that you have full autonomy over the property as long as you follow the contract (pay the mortgage), but as soon as you default, you still don't get to keep the property do you?

You still haven't answered the question. Did the bank violate the contract stipulations? Or DID you buy a house that was over valued, and suddenly you find yourself underwater? WHO's DAMN FAULT IS THAT? You voluntarily signed the contract, you made the decision, no one else.

Yes I do own the property. What to see the title? Lol, have you ever had a mortgage? The bank has not foreclosed, therefor I own the property. Again, you have no idea what my situation is. You haven't even bothered to ask. Just because someone defaults, doesn't mean they lose their property as soon as they default. There is a process.

I don't need to answer the question. The bank committed fraud. The contract is invalid. This house has equity. LOL you really have no idea what you are talking about. It sounds to me like you are speculating on some hypothetical situation. When you are ready, let me know when you want to talk about real situations. Let me know when you want to start gathering the facts. Then maybe I might be interested in answering your questions about MY DAMN MORTGAGE AND property!

Again, you have no idea what the contract was for this lady, much less for me. STOP PRETENDING LIKE YOU DO!

 

[newbitech]

Did the bank not own the property that they sold you? Are they not accepting the payments? Either scenario invalidates the contract. A contract is black and white. There is no gray within a contract. If they violate the mutually signed contract, the property is yours, and likewise if you violate the contract.

Tell me, how did the bank violate ANY OF THE TERMS WITHIN THE CONTRACT?

Look never mind. If you think banks are in the business of selling property, then you are going to have to pay me for the education that you are requiring me to give you for free in order to continue this discussion. You are more than welcome to start treating me like a human being instead of an automaton and send me a PM with you specific questions. Bottom line, the bank committed fraud. The contract is moot.

 

[cheapseats]

There is no gray within a contract.

If that sophomoric remark bore any resemblance to Truth, we would have blessedly little need for lawyers. There would be very FEW lawyers and yet, WHERE THE RUBBER OF THEORY HITS THE CONCRETE OF REALITY, we have flotillas of lawyers. To lobby for loopholes. To legislate loopholes. To facilitate slip-sliding through loop holes. To prosecute for having slip-slided through loopholes incorrectly. To defend against having jumped through loopholes, allegedly incorrectly. And more lawyers to appeal the decision. To say nothing of judges and juries.

No gray in a contract. On what PLANET?

 

[ARealConservative]

you have no idea how I am living my life. planting seeds is great but chastising people who are loosing their homes because of bank fraud and admonishing them for a lack of financial responsibility is like planting seed in a walmart parking lot AT BEST. Have some common freaking sense will ya?

Your generalization and stereotyping the record number of mortgage defaults as simply victims that have been terribly wronged by the world shows me that you are either being completely disingenuous about the entire situation or you are listening to CNBC for your news about what is happening in the world of economics. Pretty sad, I pity you.

I never said I was screwed, you are now stereotyping me. The only way we get a revolution in this country, peaceful or otherwise, is when arrogant people, not unlike yourselves start having their personal liberties violated enmasse. I am not talking some pussyfooted tax protest either, or the bitching and whining about income tax. I mean real personal liberties VIOLATED, as in financially raped, pillaged, and plunder, where real assets and property are stolen, like homes not your fake accumulated wealth like the fraudulent contracts that have been going on in this country for the past at least 10 years.

Sounds to me like you don't even appreciate what you have. Sounds to me like you have come to expect it. Sounds to me like you think that because you were successful in a completely FAKE economy, you think that you are somehow better than me. Typical sheep speak coming from you my friend. Typical.

Every economy has winners and losers. We don't live in a level playing field though. If you are born in this country, where the printing presses reign supreme, and still find yourself to be an economic loser, then their is no system that will ever come into play that will make you an economic winner.

What I'm saying is if you found a way to not succeed under these unfair rules designed to benefit Americans at the expense of the rest of the world, then you will never succeed.

So maybe being a victim is the height of your ability?

Either way, I'm pretty much done with you and your bullshit class warfare rhetoric.

 

[cheapseats]

What I'm saying is if you found a way to not succeed under these unfair rules designed to benefit Americans at the expense of the rest of the world, then you will never succeed.

What I'm saying is that you are full of shit, AND heartless.

What goes around, comes around.

 

[ARealConservative]

What I'm saying is that you are full of shit, AND heartless.

What goes around, comes around.

there is nothing I said that was incorrect.

Perhaps I'm not compassionate enough with the weak minded "victims" amongst us, but they will find plenty of compassion in this country without me stroking their fragile sensibilities.

 

[LibertyEagle]

Ok guys, keep it civil. C'mon.

 

[cheapseats]

there is nothing I said that was incorrect.

Perhaps I'm not compassionate enough with the weak minded "victims" amongst us, but they will find plenty of compassion in this country without me stroking their fragile sensibilities.

Begging your pardon but, off the top of my head, the only thing you could say today that would be more false than what you have already said is that you are a Christian.

Not to be uncivil. To be Honest.

 

[ARealConservative]

Begging your pardon but, off the top of my head, the only thing you could say today that would be more false than what you have already said is that you are a Christian.

Not to be uncivil. To be Honest.

the economic idiocy in this forum constantly amazes me.

If you can't make it in this country, you can't make it anywhere.

I'm sure you could get along better elsewhere, because they do more redistribution of wealth, but that isn't you making it, that is you taking it.

 

[cheapseats]

the economic idiocy in this forum constantly amazes me.

The spiritual fraudulence is a real head-turner, too.

If you can't make it in this country, you can't make it anywhere.

It's up to YOU, New York, Ne-ew Yo-o-orrk . . .

Knee-jerk, unthinking Loyalist claptrap.

 

[Meatwasp]

Well it is clear to me that the people that lost their houses have learned a very valuable lesson. Never never go into debt as you sell your tomorrows

 

[ARealConservative]

The spiritual fraudulence is a real head-turner, too.

I'm an atheist and have never insinuated otherwise

It's up to YOU, New York, Ne-ew Yo-o-orrk . . .

Knee-jerk, unthinking Loyalist claptrap.

Do you have a point anywhere, or is it all just ad hominem's and asshattery?

 

[ARealConservative]

Well it is clear to me that the people that lost their houses have learned a very valuable lesson. Never never go into debt as you sell your tomorrows

That lesson only happens when they shed the victim suit.

Right now they are still blaming everyone but themselves.

 

[PrairieQueen]

Hey Prairie Queen; F*CK YOU! I didnot OverBuy; I didnot use my house like a ATM machine; I DO NOT OWN NO ONE no fucking $$$ other than my house note; and I obviously didnot think that i'd be jobless 10 years later or that my income would go into the toilet; NO I NEVER counted or thought about the fact that our country would go to hell in a handbasket! SO F*CK YOU!

And what f*cking person do you know of that can BUY & PAY CASH for a House????

75k cash; what drugs are you dealing to pay cash asshole????

My point is, you took out the loan. You made the deal. They were your friend when you got the money to buy the house. People will get pissed off when the bank won't lend them the money - tell them they can't afford it. Then get pissed off when they get foreclosed on.

If your mortgage was your only debt then you should have been able to ride this out. You should have had some reserve to get through some unemployment. If you took out a mortgage that was so high it did not allow you to do that, then you should not have taken out that size of a mortgage. Continue to rent until you can put enough down to get the payment down to where you have the ability to put some in savings every month. You had ten years to do that.

All this used to be basic "rules of thumb" with finances. But the attitude over the last 10 years as been spend, spend, spend. The good times will never end.

Look, I know that there was mortgage fraud out there. And I don't think anyone here supported the bailouts. But there was fraud and greed on the consumer side also. Someone earlier posted that customers would get pissed off with a capital P when not given a loan. This is true. Then what would they do? They would to to the next broker until they found the one that would "make the deal work".

My MIL does some work with low income families in our area. These families would have 1% government loans for homes. They would come in with these deals from mortgage companies to refinance and take the equity in the home as cash. The refinance was usually for 1% for the first 6 months and then convert to an ARM. She would BEG them not to do it. They would do it anyway. Why? Because they wanted the cash to buy that big plasma T.V. Now they can't afford their payment.

Anyone that went along with the false statements on Income and Balance Sheets was just as guilty of the fraud.

If the mortgage company had to figure out how to "make the deal work" then that person should have never applied for that size of a loan in the first place. YOU should know what you can afford. Again, it does not matter what the home was valued at or what they said you could afford or whether or not they could "make the deal work".

It took two to tango here. And no doubt there are a lot of innocent people that made the right decisions caught up in it now. But again, I put the blame on bad lending AND bad consumer decisions.

 

[LibertyEagle]

What I'm saying is that you are full of shit, AND heartless.

What goes around, comes around.

Why is he heartless? Seriously, I really don't understand.

Why is it so nuts to believe a person should take responsibility for their own decisions and actions?

I mean, I feel sorry for the people who lost their houses. I also feel sorry for people who lost money in the stock market, or in failed businesses.

I realize we don't have a free market, but isn't something we tell people that malinvestment has to be allowed to wash out of the system? And that is what the people did (malinvestment), who bought houses they could not afford.

What am I missing here? I must be missing something, because there are a bunch of people in this thread who are sounding a lot more like socialists to me than libertarians.