Is It Wrong To Strip Everything From Your House In Revenge Against Your Bank?

[cheapseats]

I’m not really interested in endearing myself to people. I’ll defend the “greedy fucks” all day long though, because individual self interest is the cornerstone of a free society.

The problem is when class warfare advocates ignore the greedy fucks that happen to be poor while vilifying the greedy fucks that happen to be affluent.

Greedy Fucks get their comeuppance, or they don't. As you point out, none of my affair . . . so long as they operate within the Law. The right functionality of a Free Market is ALTOGETHER reliant upon an absence of Lying, Cheating, Stealing, Scamming and Creative Accounting.

I’m not really interested in endearing myself to people, either. I also don't have a horse in this race.

I AM, however, keenly interested in Honesty. There is a lotta real estate between between Greedy Fucks and Lying Cheating Thieving Greedy Fucks who freewheel with impunity.

Greed is human nature. So is the COWARDICE that keeps us from rigorously prosecuting our own Made In America Bad Guys.

 

[lbadragan]

A lot of mortgages were made by mortgage brokers- not banks. They got their commision on the deal and then sold the mortgage to somebody else. They had no reason to care if the person could pay for the house or not. In most cases, the bank (or investors) holding the mortgage are not the ones who issued them.

This is another myth put out by the banks to deflect responsibility. I worked as a loan officer in a broker's office a few months at the peak of the boom and I can tell you that the banks regularly instructed the broker and loan officers on how to fudge the paperwork so that it would make it thru their underwriting department. Eerybody knew all you had to do is get a signed application and a credit report, fax it to the bank rep, and he'd show you how to "make it work". I quit in disgust because I had plenty of prospects but lost most to other brokers who were able to give them a lower rate by giving the applicant huge raises, creating assets out of thin air, etc... Some even went so far as to edit bank statements and arrange for unemployed applicants to put down that they're an employee of xyz company. Then xyz company would get a kickback for every employment verification they had to do for the broker's applicants.

I used to see things as many of you do and thought that regardless of the circumstances, the homeowner is responsible to honor their contract. That's until I realized how the game is played. The banks are both player and referee. And those who ask why people who hate banks don't pay cash - you fail to take into account that the average person can't pay cash for a house precisely BECAUSE of the banks. The imaginary money they lend is the cause of enduring high prices. This phenomenon is clearly seen in emerging markets. I was born in a European country that's now an emerging market and before a mortgage market existed, even someone in the lower middle class could pay cash for an apartment. My father bought my uncle an apartment 14 years ago for $1,300. I swear I kid you not. Once the mortgage market came on the scene, prices literally increased tenfold to twenty-fold and even more in some markets. This huge increase occurred in only a few years.

 

[jkm1864]

Well its complicated because I might have to do it in the future. I have paid all my payments ever month and for two years I paid extra every month. Now if Chase goes under and calls in its loans I could get foreclosed on. So let me ask You what moral obligation do I have to leave? If I am forced to leave then why would I not want to leave a pile of ash when I left...


You talk about morality but this could happen and did happen in the 80's.

 

[ARealConservative]

Well its complicated because I might have to do it in the future. I have paid all my payments ever month and for two years I paid extra every month. Now if Chase goes under and calls in its loans I could get foreclosed on. So let me ask You what moral obligation do I have to leave? If I am forced to leave then why would I not want to leave a pile of ash when I left...


You talk about morality but this could happen and did happen in the 80's.

I have never heard an on demand stipulation on a mortgage note before unless some form of delinquency were to occur.

If your note has such a clause, I'm truly sorry for you. That would really suck, and it also makes me wonder why any holder of the note would even bother doing so.

 

[s35wf]

Why wasn't your attitude 10 years ago "F*ck the BANKS. Why didn't you just save and pay cash and not get a loan?

Hey Prairie Queen; I didnot OverBuy; I didnot use my house like a ATM machine; I DO NOT OWN NO ONE no $$$ other than my house note; and I obviously didnot think that i'd be jobless 10 years later or that my income would go into the toilet; NO I NEVER counted or thought about the fact that our country would go to hell in a handbasket! SO **** YOU!

And what person do you know of that can BUY & PAY CASH for a House????

75k cash; what drugs are you dealing to pay cash????

 

[cheapseats]

You talk about morality but this could happen and did happen in the 80's.

It is happening again precisely because we did not round up the Bad Guys, seize their assets and throw their asses in the same federal penitentiaries to which they so liberally condemn others.

Barring conspiracies in restraint of trade and oh-so-rare Natural Monopolies, Society will get more of that which turns a profit. The twisted joke is that conspiracies in restraint of trade are a PARTICULARLY profitable vector of White Collar Crime. Ongoing conspiracy in restraint of trade featuring Willing Participants, plural, rather than a Lone Wolf = RACKETEERING.

 

[ARealConservative]

Hey Prairie Queen; F*CK YOU! I didnot OverBuy; I didnot use my house like a ATM machine; I DO NOT OWN NO ONE no fucking $$$ other than my house note; and I obviously didnot think that i'd be jobless 10 years later or that my income would go into the toilet; NO I NEVER counted or thought about the fact that our country would go to hell in a handbasket! SO F*CK YOU!

And what f*cking person do you know of that can BUY & PAY CASH for a House????

75k cash; what drugs are you dealing to pay cash asshole????

I understand you are angry, but it isn't the banks fault that you are unable to pay back a loan.

how is stripping things out of the house helping the situation any?

 

[newbitech]

Every situation is different. I see so many uninformed stereotypical opinions in this thread. What separates this conversation from the conversations that are going on about this subject all over the country? Not a damn thing. None of you are special. None of you have the right answer. F'ing admit it. No one knows what to do or how to deal with this. NO ONE.

That being said.

Anyone in this thread willing to admit to being in a bad situation right now? Bad as in 60-90 days past due on a MORTGAGE note?

Wanna know why I will strip my families home if the bank decides to press foreclosure? Because the house and everything on this 4 square piece of land belongs to my family and I. Know what I think about that piece of paper when it comes to my property? About the same as I think about that piece of paper you will go use to buy yourself lunch tomorrow.

Read the headlines folks. The rest of the world has put ALL of us on notice. If you do have a mortgage and you are paying on time, well good for you. But the reality is, your great decisions along with my shitty decisions all got lumped together and SOLD for WAYYYYYY more than they were worth.

In fact they were sold for WAAYYY more than what nothing but great decisions are worth. When the creditors of this country come to call in that note because of default, Don't think they are going to sit there and separate the wheat from the chaff and have mercy on you because you made good decisions. When that time comes, and its a coming, I hope you will understand that some people strip their homes because it is the RIGHT thing for THAT person to do. And please, don't feel guilty when you have to renege on your word to protect your ass.

 

[micahnelson]

... it isn't the banks fault that you are unable to pay back a loan.

It isn't? Then why are we trying to END THE FED? If the banks aren't to blame, what is? Us? Our credit card debt? Would you like to compare consumer debt to corporate or government debt?

Its the typical corporatist attempt to levy blame on the poor individuals, while running up massive debt on their own.

The bankers should have their belongings stripped from them and put in jail for hard labor until the end of their miserable lives.

If we can't understand that the banks are evil, why the hell do we care about anything else? They are thieves and vipers.

I would not shed a tear for a single one of them for any reason at all, because nothing that could happen to a single one of them begins to compare to the misery they have profited from for the last century.


You are defending a slave driver. Does a slave have a right to destroy his masters property? I don't even accept the premise. In a society of slavery, the slaves rights have been violated. He is then, within his natural rights, justified in any action equal to the violation that has been placed against him.

Down with the banks, Down with the Cabal of the Reserve, Down with the Wall street trust. This isn't capitalism, this is corporate tyranny. The government is little more than the Pinkertons. Don't think this fight is against a little group of paper pushers in DC. Follow the money. Your oppressors are the ones buying and selling your jobs, homes, and property taking a cut every time until they own everything.

If we don't have the balls to do a little vandalism in the name of liberty then what the hell do you think of the Boston Tea Party?

Was that government tea in the boat or was it Corporate tea?

Maybe the founding fathers should be taught about appropriate responses in the face of tyranny. Sure, lets water the tree of liberty with the blood of tyrants- but make sure you keep your end of the bargain with a bank that has stolen 700 Billion dollars from your grand kids.

 

[newbitech]

Maybe this thread will benefit from a short video that will explain wtf is going on.


The Crisis of Credit Visualized on Vimeo

 

[newbitech]

and this one
YouTube - Money As Debt (3 of 5)

 

[newbitech]

I think the only question should be FOR THIS FORUM is, do you really think it is ok that I do whatever I want to do with my 4 square piece of land and everything on it regardless if you would do the same?

anyone who thinks that the land is not mine because of a worthless, unsubstantiated, and lawless contract doesn't really understand or at the very least is choosing to ignore what kind of system we have here.

 

[newbitech]

the other thing that people who think stripping is wrong need to understand... this is a LONG article but very pertinent and very good.

Not all the people stripping houses are scammers, but I guarantee you that ALL the lenders involved in default and foreclosures ARE SCAMS...

http://www.counterpunch.org/martens10052009.html Oct 5th 2009

American Casino movie trailer on Vimeo

 

[Zippyjuan]

I think the only question should be FOR THIS FORUM is, do you really think it is ok that I do whatever I want to do with my 4 square piece of land and everything on it regardless if you would do the same?

anyone who thinks that the land is not mine because of a worthless, unsubstantiated, and lawless contract doesn't really understand or at the very least is choosing to ignore what kind of system we have here.

A lawless contract? Without contracts we are lawless. That means that your property can be taken at a moments notice without any compensation to you. It is yours only because you have a contract. The loan agreement states that if you do not fulfull your side of the terms and repay the loan, you must give up the property. If you damage it after you are told to give it back, you have damaged not your own property but somebody else's. If it is paid for and you want to trash you house, go ahead.

 

[ARealConservative]

It isn't? Then why are we trying to END THE FED? If the banks aren't to blame, what is? Us? Our credit card debt? Would you like to compare consumer debt to corporate or government debt?

Its the typical corporatist attempt to levy blame on the poor individuals, while running up massive debt on their own.

The bankers should have their belongings stripped from them and put in jail for hard labor until the end of their miserable lives.

If we can't understand that the banks are evil, why the hell do we care about anything else? They are thieves and vipers.

I would not shed a tear for a single one of them for any reason at all, because nothing that could happen to a single one of them begins to compare to the misery they have profited from for the last century.


You are defending a slave driver. Does a slave have a right to destroy his masters property? I don't even accept the premise. In a society of slavery, the slaves rights have been violated. He is then, within his natural rights, justified in any action equal to the violation that has been placed against him.

Down with the banks, Down with the Cabal of the Reserve, Down with the Wall street trust. This isn't capitalism, this is corporate tyranny. The government is little more than the Pinkertons. Don't think this fight is against a little group of paper pushers in DC. Follow the money. Your oppressors are the ones buying and selling your jobs, homes, and property taking a cut every time until they own everything.

If we don't have the balls to do a little vandalism in the name of liberty then what the hell do you think of the Boston Tea Party?

Was that government tea in the boat or was it Corporate tea?

Maybe the founding fathers should be taught about appropriate responses in the face of tyranny. Sure, lets water the tree of liberty with the blood of tyrants- but make sure you keep your end of the bargain with a bank that has stolen 700 Billion dollars from your grand kids.

what a bunch of class warfare collectivist bullshit.

Ending the fed does not eliminate the moneylenders.

 

[newbitech]

A lawless contract? Without contracts we are lawless. That means that your property can be taken at a moments notice without any compensation to you. It is yours only because you have a contract. The loan agreement states that if you do not fulfull your side of the terms and repay the loan, you must give up the property. If you damage it after you are told to give it back, you have damaged not your own property but somebody else's. If it is paid for and you want to trash you house, go ahead.

its invalid. the bank never planned on me staying in my house. the bank committed fraud. contract nullified.

Edit: the mortgage industry has been lawless for at least the last 10 years.

 

[newbitech]

what a bunch of class warfare collectivist bullshit.

Ending the fed does not eliminate the moneylenders.

i feel sorry for you. I really do. it IS class warfare against anyone that has never seen a check for a billion dollars.

who give a fuck if its collectivist? is that what you are going to call us when we are all out on the streets in protest or locked up in debtors prison or on our way to the concentration camps?

just what is it you are trying to protect? morals? ethics? A lot of fucking good that does someone when they are being ripped off via bank fraud, or having their homes stolen by the chinese, russians, and arab states because of some bullshit fraudulent piece of paper.

This is not the message of the founding fathers and will never manifest into a revolution, peaceful or otherwise.

 

[ARealConservative]

i feel sorry for you. I really do. it IS class warfare against anyone that has never seen a check for a billion dollars.

who give a fuck if its collectivist? is that what you are going to call us when we are all out on the streets in protest or locked up in debtors prison or on our way to the concentration camps?

just what is it you are trying to protect? morals? ethics? A lot of fucking good that does someone when they are being ripped off via bank fraud, or having their homes stolen by the chinese, russians, and arab states because of some bullshit fraudulent piece of paper.

This is not the message of the founding fathers and will never manifest into a revolution, peaceful or otherwise.

sometime between bouts of dishing out pity for others, maybe you can plant a seed or two of personal responsibility and stop living the remainder of your existence like a victim that has been terribly wronged by the world.

Or if that is too much to ask, maybe you could at least wait for debtors prisons to exist in this country before complaining about how screwed you were to take on excess debt.

 

[newbitech]

sometime between bouts of dishing out pity for others, maybe you can plant a seed or two of personal responsibility and stop living the remainder of your existence like a victim that has been terribly wronged by the world.

Or if that is too much to ask, maybe you could at least wait for debtors prisons to exist in this country before complaining about how screwed you were to take on excess debt.

you have no idea how I am living my life. planting seeds is great but chastising people who are loosing their homes because of bank fraud and admonishing them for a lack of financial responsibility is like planting seed in a walmart parking lot AT BEST. Have some common freaking sense will ya?

Your generalization and stereotyping the record number of mortgage defaults as simply victims that have been terribly wronged by the world shows me that you are either being completely disingenuous about the entire situation or you are listening to CNBC for your news about what is happening in the world of economics. Pretty sad, I pity you.

I never said I was screwed, you are now stereotyping me. The only way we get a revolution in this country, peaceful or otherwise, is when arrogant people, not unlike yourselves start having their personal liberties violated enmasse. I am not talking some pussyfooted tax protest either, or the bitching and whining about income tax. I mean real personal liberties VIOLATED, as in financially raped, pillaged, and plunder, where real assets and property are stolen, like homes not your fake accumulated wealth like the fraudulent contracts that have been going on in this country for the past at least 10 years.

Sounds to me like you don't even appreciate what you have. Sounds to me like you have come to expect it. Sounds to me like you think that because you were successful in a completely FAKE economy, you think that you are somehow better than me. Typical sheep speak coming from you my friend. Typical.

 

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

i feel sorry for you. I really do. it IS class warfare against anyone that has never seen a check for a billion dollars.

who give a fuck if its collectivist? is that what you are going to call us when we are all out on the streets in protest or locked up in debtors prison or on our way to the concentration camps?

just what is it you are trying to protect? morals? ethics? A lot of fucking good that does someone when they are being ripped off via bank fraud, or having their homes stolen by the chinese, russians, and arab states because of some bullshit fraudulent piece of paper.

This is not the message of the founding fathers and will never manifest into a revolution, peaceful or otherwise.

Unless the banks violated the contract, the contract is valid. Unless the contract was signed under duress or there was a coercive force, the contract is otherwise valid. The only person who is at fault for not reading, understanding, or otherwise knowing what they have signed, is the person who agrees to pay whatever the contract deems valid.

This is a load of horseshit coming out of some people on this board. It isn't the fault of the banks that you can't afford the payments, or the payments were changed when you signed an ARM. That is your fault, plain and simple. You should have negotiated a contract that you could have afforded. It isn't your house until you pay off the whole of the contract; ie loan. Damaging property doesn't help the Economy. Read some Hazlitt and learn about the broken glass fallacy.

This kind of shit pisses me off. Because some fuck heads didn't understand their contract that gives them some sort of right to damage property they don't own? If the bank nullifies it's own contract, then you are entitled to the property in whole. If you nullify the contract (IE stop paying the mortgage), you forfeit the house back to the owner; the bank.

All I am seeing in this thread is a bunch of "stick it to the man" with no clear principles, values, or understanding behind an economy, contracts, and rule of law. Such hypocrisy.