Is it too late even for Ron Paul to save us?

[Tenbatsu]

No one is coming to save you. The American government is broken and not even a Ron Paul Presidency will be able to repair it.

We have to become the change we want to see regardless of the politicians that run our government.

Only you have the power to change the world.

 

[ClayTrainor]

If Ron Paul could singlehandedly save a nation, wouldn't that kind of be a pro-dictator argument?

 

[low preference guy]

is this thread a whining competition?

 

[YumYum]

We've passed the tipping point, it is too late to avoid the pain.

That's it. We are at the tipping point now, can people imagine how bad it will be by 2012?

Politicians talk about cutting domestic spending, but no politician has the guts, except Ron Paul, to talk about cutting foreign aid. Putting Ron Paul in office in 2012 is like changing captains on the Titanic after if hit the iceberg.

 

[jmdrake]

all the foreign wars, plus the useless bases in Germany, Korea and Japan would not reach $400 billion a year. deficit is nearly $2 trillion.

name where the other cuts come from.

Department of Homeland inSecurity, FEMA, Department of Education, Department of Agriculture, privatize NASA, give the states back their national guards along with the responsibility of funding them, the FCC, end the war on drugs, allow for hemp production, Department of Energy, you can cut back on the coast guard without a federal war on drugs, (just rescuing drunk boaters doesn't cost that much), end all foreign aid, cut federal employees salaries down to the point where they match the private sector, I'm sure other people can think of a lot more.

Also a lot depends on putting America on a better trajectory. Folks that have reached retirement age factoring "social security" into their survival income (or just not planning at all) are pretty much stuck. But we don't have to let future generations make that same mistake. The sooner social security is privatized and/or done away with the better for all concerned. Same goes for medicare. There's no reason a 21 year old can't start a long term medical investment account to take care of his needs once he's 65. But it would be unwise (an politically undoable) to cut the funds to the seniors who need them now.

 

[YumYum]

is this thread a whining competition?

Singing "Dream, dreeeam, dream, whenever I want to, all I have to do is dreeeeam.."

 

[amy31416]

Mmmhmm.

 

[angelatc]

had he been elected in 2008, just by dismantling the empire, freezing hiring and salaries the budget would have been in balance; all doable without congress. or by using a veto.

but now the cuts have to draconian. ending food stamps etc.

can you see 60 senators and a house majority voting for that?

First of all I can assure you that there are several of is who fear that it is too late to save America.

But remember that Ron Paul says if we ended our empire, we could fund all our social programs while phasing them out. That's the only plan that would work, IMHO.

But the neocons have no interest in domestic policy. They'd rather see us in tents than give up one inch of global real estate.

 

[speciallyblend]

First of all I can assure you that there are several of is who fear that it is too late to save America.

But remember that Ron Paul says if we ended our empire, we could fund all our social programs while phasing them out. That's the only plan that would work, IMHO.

But the neocons have no interest in domestic policy. They'd rather see us in tents than give up one inch of global real estate.

i suggest everyone make sure they have -40 north face sleeping bags, seems the best on the market for the money and your life! Another essential is a good water filter! i fear angelatc is correct. america might be beyond saving! to broke to buy land already lost everything i worked for since 18 but i am doing my best to learn high altitude growing and to start over!

my short term goal buy some farm land in colorado and pay my slave taxes and do my best to keep government out of my life! Grow your own food and prepare for the worse to come! that is what i am expecting. when you look at the 2 failed parties. we should expect nothing but failure from our government!!

 

[ctiger2]

It's too late. Whoever is president for the 2012 term will be in a no win situation. Figures it might be Ron Paul...

 

[pmbug]

all the foreign wars, plus the useless bases in Germany, Korea and Japan would not reach $400 billion a year. deficit is nearly $2 trillion.

name where the other cuts come from.

Hi Cindy, did you read Ron Paul's platform when he ran in 2008? Have you read any of the legislation he has introduced in the last few years?

 

[TortoiseDream]

had he been elected in 2008, just by dismantling the empire, freezing hiring and salaries the budget would have been in balance; all doable without congress. or by using a veto.

but now the cuts have to draconian. ending food stamps etc.

can you see 60 senators and a house majority voting for that?

Well just as a matter of principle, no one man can "save us". We are the only ones who can save ourselves, and I think that should come before politics.

 

[Anti Federalist]

We've passed the tipping point, it is too late to avoid the pain.

That^^^

Talk of slowly morphing out of the welfare/warfare state is just that, talk.

It's going to suddenly and painfully collapse either way, on our terms or somebody else will set the terms.

The time is long past for natural wellness cures.

This is stage four gangrene, immediate radical surgery and amputation is required.

The alternative is death.

 

[YumYum]

i suggest everyone make sure they have -40 north face sleeping bags, seems the best on the market for the money and your life! Another essential is a good water filter! i fear angelatc is correct. america might be beyond saving! to broke to buy land already lost everything i worked for since 18 but i am doing my best to learn high altitude growing and to start over!

my short term goal buy some farm land in colorado and pay my slave taxes and do my best to keep government out of my life! Grow your own food and prepare for the worse to come! that is what i am expecting. when you look at the 2 failed parties. we should expect nothing but failure from our government!!

The FEMA camp conspiracy is making more sense everyday as we get closer to total collapse. I don't believe the government is going to allow 100 million+ people to roam around the country, scrounge for food, and to sleep in the streets in sleeping bags.

 

[MelissaWV]

That^^^

Talk of slowly morphing out of the welfare/warfare state is just that, talk.

It's going to suddenly and painfully collapse either way, on our terms or somebody else will set the terms.

The time is long past for natural wellness cures.

This is stage four gangrene, immediate radical surgery and amputation is required.

The alternative is death.

Not picking on you, but you were the nearest example.

Which has always made me wonder why people who think we're past the tipping point... are on forums dedicated to someone that won't make a lick of difference by being elected. Far from it! A lot of people are far more interested in the collapse than they are in doing anything, and would hope someone even worse than Obama gets elected so it hurries along.

An increasing number of people around here are reminding me of the ratpurephiles who help instability along, in the hopes of the Second Coming happening in their lifetime.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Not picking on you, but you were the nearest example.

Which has always made me wonder why people who think we're past the tipping point... are on forums dedicated to someone that won't make a lick of difference by being elected. Far from it! A lot of people are far more interested in the collapse than they are in doing anything, and would hope someone even worse than Obama gets elected so it hurries along.

An increasing number of people around here are reminding me of the ratpurephiles who help instability along, in the hopes of the Second Coming happening in their lifetime.

Quite simple really.

It's to exhaust every single option, to at least go through the motions of "working within the system", to do what the founders did prior to the signing of the Declaration of Independence.

To have the moral high ground of saying that we tried everything, before coming down to a fight.

And there's always the possibility we (the doom and gloom crowd) are wrong. So much the better, I hope we are.

 

[wizardwatson]

A lot of people are far more interested in the collapse than they are in doing anything, and would hope someone even worse than Obama gets elected so it hurries along.

An increasing number of people around here are reminding me of the rapturephiles who help instability along, in the hopes of the Second Coming happening in their lifetime.

I've been singing this song in these forums for a while now. And I've even made the analogy that you refer to as "rapturphiles" as well, pointing out that the an-cap doomsday atheists have more in common with apocalyptaholics than they think.

But my ranting against this meme isn't helping any more than what anyone else is doing. I'm starting to wonder what substance there even is to this movement beyond the people who've become involved in the campaigns. I know there's lots of people floating around left over from the RP campaign, many of whom have switched to the Kokesh/Rand/Schiff campaigns, but most of whats active online outside the campaigns seems to be a lot of people with good intentions and anxiety issues who refuse to see that our "movement" is not grounded in any kind of organizational activities.

The Kansas CFL has supposedly around 2200 members. Only about 500 of those actually have user accounts created. Of those only about half have ever actually logged into it. Of those, more than half haven't logged in, in over a year (including our county coordinator). The state coordinator mostly parrots what the national coordinator is posting doing.

Point is, that CFL is basically a failed attempt to turn the RP campaigns mailing/donation list into a social network. It's still just a mailing/donation list. That's not bad in itself, whats bad is people online put up this facade that we're part of a "movement" when in fact we're mostly commenting on a movement that exists mostly in our minds.

I think the key to rebuilding is engaging one another, in some kind of organizational manner, outside the "campaign" paradigm. We don't lack ideas or motivation, we lack strategy.

I wish I knew the best way forward but I don't. And what bothers me most I think is this pervading belief within the liberty "movement" that everything is humming along as efficiently as is possible and that we're all part of something and that the path is clear, when secretly most of our "hopes" are positive Hail Mary #1 that RP wins the Presidency, and Negative Hail Mary #2 that we get Gary North style Y2K induced economic collapse.

I think before anything is going to really change though, many of us need to realize where we've gotten our minds stuck at.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

How is one man going to save us? Ron isn't an omnipotent messiah who can wave his hand and solve our problems. We need millions of people to wake up and take back our government.

It seems a lot of people on these boards and moreso in the general population think the president should have the powers of a dictator.

 

[lucius]

had he been elected in 2008, just by dismantling the empire, freezing hiring and salaries the budget would have been in balance; all doable without congress. or by using a veto.

but now the cuts have to draconian. ending food stamps etc.

can you see 60 senators and a house majority voting for that?

He has already saved us, he was the spark that started this fire of education. Change will come from within...

 

[speciallyblend]

The FEMA camp conspiracy is making more sense everyday as we get closer to total collapse. I don't believe the government is going to allow 100 million+ people to roam around the country, scrounge for food, and to sleep in the streets in sleeping bags.

your right, they would have to kill me before i ever go live in a fema camp! reminds me of the Red Dawn Camps except the camps wouldn't be run by the enemy but our own government!! sounds like a good base for Red Dawn 3 Fight The tyranny, Movie!!