Inside the mind of a "law and order" Republican

I'll argue counterpoint....

With less laws the idiots would actually fear retribution for their misdeeds, there would be no courts or lawyers to keep them from comeuppance.

Every man/woman would face the very real threat of death for poor behavior, no back-n-forth in some courtroom to get a favorable plea-bargain because little-Johnny couldn't/wouldn't put 145 grains of lead in Bubba's brain... Either little-Johnny puts up or he shuts up..

But noooooooooo! Equality and protection are the order of the day and heaven forbid one takes care of himself and his family...:eek:

In today's world that too is afoul of some law.....Only the professionals are permitted to assure compliance....

Agreed. An armed society is a polite society, but only if those armed are permitted use without government retribution for doing what cops do everyday. Cops are allowed to keep "law and order" because they are given carte blanche use of their sidearms without recourse. Their word is greater in a court of their law than even the utmost law abiding citizen.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to tod evans again.
 
The word "sheriff" is a contraction of the term "shire reeve". The term, from the Old English scīrgerefa, designated a royal official responsible for keeping the peace (a "reeve") throughout a shire or county on behalf of the king.[SUP][2][/SUP] The term was preserved in England notwithstanding the Norman Conquest. From the Anglo-Saxon kingdoms, the term spread to several other regions, at an early point to Scotland, latterly to Ireland and to the United States.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheriff

On behalf of the King. I'll end it right there. Hardly proper in a free society. Obviously you don't care to be edified.
 
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On behalf of the King. I'll end it right there. Hardly proper in a free society.
Because they had a king and not some other form of government, the point is they have been expanded (and that may have been a bad thing) but governments have had law enforcement officers for centuries.
Even ancient pre-monarchic Israel had the Judges.
Government is necessary, laws are necessary, law enforcement officers are necessary, all things can be distorted and abused.
 
The more undisciplined and immoral a society becomes, the more laws and police it needs. This phenomenon is very unsettling when you think about it. If you had an entire society composed of true libertarians who practiced personal responsibility, then the law enforcement footprint would be minuscule nationwide. A debased society gives the centralized law enforcement industry a perfect excuse to encroach upon more freedoms.

And the more "Balkanized" and "diverse".

Which is why, of course, "the powers that be" are intent upon importing half of the turd world here.
 
Because they had a king and not some other form of government, the point is they have been expanded (and that may have been a bad thing) but governments have had law enforcement officers for centuries.
Even ancient pre-monarchic Israel had the Judges.
Government is necessary, laws are necessary, law enforcement officers are necessary, all things can be distorted and abused.

:eek:

We're living the death spiral of government and her laws...

Child molesters get paroled and weed farmers get life, state actors operate with impunity while more than half the country literally exists off the other halfs production...

I'm ready for the grande finale...
 
Because they had a king and not some other form of government, the point is they have been expanded (and that may have been a bad thing) but governments have had law enforcement officers for centuries.
Even ancient pre-monarchic Israel had the Judges.
Government is necessary, laws are necessary, law enforcement officers are necessary, all things can be distorted and abused.

No. Read the fucking thread I posted. Would that be so hard?

Here's another for your edification. Law enforcement does not require government involvement.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?371304-The-Myth-of-the-Wild-West

A snip...

In contrast, an alternative literature based on actual history concludes that the civil society of the American West in the nineteenth century was not very violent. Eugene Hollon writes that the western frontier “was a far more civilized, more peaceful and safer place than American society today” (1974, x). Terry Anderson and P. J. Hill affirm that although “[t]he West . . . is perceived as a place of great chaos, with little respect for property or life,” their research “indicates that this was not the case; property rights were protected and civil order prevailed. Private agencies provided the necessary basis for an orderly society in which property was protected and conflicts were resolved” (1979, 10).

What were these private protective agencies? They were not governments because they did not have a legal monopoly on keeping order. Instead, they included such organizations as land clubs, cattlemen’s associations, mining camps, and wagon trains.

So-called land clubs were organizations established by settlers before the U.S. government even surveyed the land, let alone started to sell it or give it away. Because disputes over land titles are inevitable, the land clubs adopted their own constitutions, laying out the “laws” that would define and protect property rights in land (Anderson and Hill 1979, 15). They administered land claims, protected them from outsiders, and arbitrated disputes. Social ostracism was used effectively against those who violated the rules. Establishing property rights in this way minimized disputes—and violence.

The wagon trains that transported thousands of people to the California gold fields and other parts of the West usually established their own constitutions before setting out. These constitutions often included detailed judicial systems. As a consequence, writes Benson, “[t]here were few instances of violence on the wagon trains even when food became extremely scarce and starvation threatened. When crimes against persons or their property were committed, the judicial system . . . would take effect” (1998, 102). Ostracism and threats of banishment from the group, instead of threats of violence, were usually sufficient to correct rule breakers’ behavior.

Dozens of movies have portrayed the nineteenth-century mining camps in the West as hot beds of anarchy and violence, but John Umbeck discovered that, beginning in 1848, the miners began forming contracts with one another to restrain their own behavior (1981, 51). There was no government authority in California at the time, apart from a few military posts. The miners’ contracts established property rights in land (and in any gold found on the land) that the miners themselves enforced. Miners who did not accept the rules the majority adopted were free to mine elsewhere or to set up their own contractual arrangements with other miners. The rules that were adopted were often consequently established with unanimous consent (Anderson and Hill 1979, 19). As long as a miner abided by the rules, the other miners defended his rights under the community contract. If he did not abide by the agreed-on rules, his claim would be regarded as “open to any [claim] jumpers” (Umbeck 1981, 53).

The mining camps hired “enforcement specialists”—justices of the peace and arbitrators—and developed an extensive body of property and criminal law. As a result, there was very little violence and theft. The fact that the miners were usually armed also helps to explain why crime was relatively infrequent. Benson concludes, “The contractual system of law effectively generated cooperation rather than conflict, and on those occasions when conflict arose it was, by and large, effectively quelled through nonviolent means” (1998, 105).

When government bureaucrats failed to police cattle rustling effectively, ranchers established cattlemen’s associations that drew up their own constitutions and hired private “protection agencies” that were often staffed by expert gunmen. This action deterred cattle rustling. Some of these “gunmen” did “drift in and out of a life of crime,” write Anderson and Hill (1979, 18), but they were usually dealt with by the cattlemen’s associations and never created any kind of large-scale criminal organization, as some have predicted would occur under a regime of private law enforcement.

In sum, this work by Benson, Anderson and Hill, Umbeck, and others challenges with solid historical research the claims made by the “West was violent” authors. The civil society of the American West in the nineteenth century was much more peaceful than American cities are today, and the evidence suggests that in fact the Old West was not a very violent place at all. History also reveals that the expanded presence of the U.S. government was the real cause of a culture of violence in the American West. If there is anything to the idea that a nineteenth-century culture of violence on the American frontier is the genesis of much of the violence in the United States today, the main source of that culture is therefore government, not civil society.
 
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Ok, so now that we have been distorted and abused into a rental serfdom/police state, what now?
The options are political reform (the mission of this website), or revolt (which if and when it is appropriate would be discussed elsewhere for obvious reasons), or submission (Not an option as far as I am concerned).
 
No. Read the $#@!ing thread I posted. Would that be so hard?

Here's another for your edification. Law enforcement does not require government involvement.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?371304-The-Myth-of-the-Wild-West
At lower population levels less is required (which is why excessive urbanization was one of the worst things to happen to this country), but the wild west for all it's freedom still had and needed Sheriffs and U.S. Marshalls and the U.S. Cavalry.
 
:eek:

We're living the death spiral of government and her laws...

Child molesters get paroled and weed farmers get life, state actors operate with impunity while more than half the country literally exists off the other halfs production...

I'm ready for the grande finale...

When a field becomes overgrown with weeds one does not reject all plants and salt it.
We are most certainly neck deep in corruption and abuse that can happen to any necessary thing.
 
At lower population levels less is required (which is why excessive urbanization was one of the worst things to happen to this country), but the wild west for all it's freedom still had and needed Sheriffs and U.S. Marshalls and the U.S. Cavalry.

No it didn't. You would understand that if you read my post. And your quick response to my post informs me that you have not. But, you seem to have some refusal for doing so. So I guess we are done.
 
Cops are a band of brotherhood that think they are better than everyone else and it is them against everyone else.
 
At lower population levels less is required (which is why excessive urbanization was one of the worst things to happen to this country), but the wild west for all it's freedom still had and needed Sheriffs and U.S. Marshalls and the U.S. Cavalry.

And again you refuse to be edified. Instead regurgitating all you have been force fed to swallow. Why should I bother at this point?
 
And again you refuse to be edified. Instead regurgitating all you have been force fed to swallow. Why should I bother at this point?
Your unfair Neg-Rep and double response will not provoke me into further debate. You Anarchists can't learn, your idiotic theories would only lead to tribal savagery, subjective justice and the strong preying upon the weak. I will not discuss this further.
 
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Your unfair Neg-Rep and double response will not provoke me into further debate. You Anarchists can't learn, your idiotic theories would only lead to tribal savagery subjective justice and the strong preying upon the weak. I will not discuss this further.

I'm not an anarchist. Nice try at painting me into a corner. Yeah, I guess we are done.
 
When a field becomes overgrown with weeds one does not reject all plants and salt it.
We are most certainly neck deep in corruption and abuse that can happen to any necessary thing.

Burning them every spring for several years might help...
 
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