In Close Vote, House Blocks Debate on Yemen War

[Swordsmyth]

I think private sanctuaries are very important. Many species like the white rhino are already extinct. The problem is finding people willing to fund private sanctuaries as more and more of the natural world becomes extinct at a faster and faster pace. The other issue would be that if the gray wolf is no longer part of the natural ecosystem (and only exists in private sanctuaries) it will affect the rest of the ecosystem:



I remember reading an article a few years ago: I think it was about for some reason people obliterating opossums. Not sure why, but they did. And many believe that is why we now have such an infestation of lyme disease and deer ticks. Just like blow-back in foreign policy, there is blow-back in nature/ecosystems when humans destroy species.

It's outside the scope of this argument, but I'm also opposed to unnecessary cruelty to any sentient live being. It's one thing to shoot a deer point blank between the eyes so its suffering is minimized. It's quite another to put traps out and have wolves, deer, and other live beings get their paws in one of these traps and linger for days and weeks in agony before they finally die. And, yes, this does happen. I think this cruelty should be outlawed by States, but if it's not, this is where I have no problem with a Federal law outlawing this kind of torture.

I do believe animals have rights. Maybe not the same rights as humans. But a right to be treated humanely.

FAIL

 

[charrob]

FAIL

I know you're right according to the Founders. But I don't see sentient beings as being property -- whether they were slaves or other. I suppose like the 13th Amendment, what would be needed is a Constitutional amendment to ban the torture of sentient beings. So in that, yes, you are right. It should not be a Federal Law -- what, imho it should be, is a Constitutional amendment.

 

[Swordsmyth]

I know you're right according to the Founders. But I don't see sentient beings as being property -- whether they were slaves or other. I suppose like the 13th Amendment, what would be needed is a Constitutional amendment to ban the torture of sentient beings. So in that, yes, you are right. It should not be a Federal Law -- what, imho it should be, is a Constitutional amendment.

Not only would it not be constitutional without an amendment but it exactly the kind of debatable and subjective issue that the founders thought should be handled at the state level or below so that people from an urban region couldn't tell people from a rural reason what to do even though they had no understanding of the issues or the point of view of the rural residents.

 

[goldenequity]

Congress blocks a resolution to end US military support for Saudis in Yemen

Rep. Ro Khanna (D) California can't believe it. yah Ro... it's true.



Congress blocks a resolution to end US military support for Saudis in Yemen

 

[oyarde]

[size=+1]
In Close Vote, House Blocks Debate on Yemen War:
[/size]

Vote was tied to bill cracking down on gray wolves.



So Republicans not only enjoy slaughtering innocent human beings but they also enjoy slaughtering wolves. Tell me again why Republicans are the better party?

Pubs are better because you will have a rifle to shoot the wolf . Dems would expect you to let yourself be eaten by it .

 

[CCTelander]

Rep. Ro Khanna (D) California can't believe it. yah Ro... it's true.



Congress blocks a resolution to end US military support for Saudis in Yemen

Thank God Republicans still control both houses.

 

[Swordsmyth]

[h=3]In Close Vote, House Blocks Debate on Yemen War[/h] Started by charrob, Today

 

[Swordsmyth]

Thank God Republicans still control both houses.

Giving the House to the Demoncrats will absolutely end the war.

 

[oyarde]

I see no real reason to bring wolves back unless you first bring back continent wide herds of Buffalo and Elk which is the prey .

 

[CCTelander]

Giving the House to the Demoncrats will absolutely end the war.

Probably not. But that wasn't the point as you're very well aware. But hey, keep up with the mendacious innuendo against anyone who fails to toe your rigidly partisan party line. It makes it easy for any sincere individuals to identify just exactly what you're about.

 

[goldenequity]

I'm srry to have started a duplicate thread... I didn't see your thread [MENTION=25495]charrob[/MENTION]. srry..
neg rep be upon me and may all my fiat currency burst into everlasting fire!!!!!!!!!!

 

[charrob]

Not only would it not be constitutional without an amendment but it exactly the kind of debatable and subjective issue that the founders thought should be handled at the state level or below so that people from an urban region couldn't tell people from a rural reason what to do even though they had no understanding of the issues or the point of view of the rural residents.

Yes I understand the tenth amendment. And you are right: this would have to be a constitutional amendment. I hold no illusions that it will ever happen. That doesn't mean I don't think it should. I believe all sentient beings have an inalienable right to be free from unnecessary torture by humans.

I also believe gray wolves who attack livestock can be shot by owners of that livestock. However gray wolves are not a significant threat to livestock:

"The latest cattle and sheep death loss data from the U.S. Department of Agriculture show that in the eight Rocky Mountain and Great Lakes states, where gray wolves live, losses of sheep and cattle from wolves amounted to just 0.04 percent of their livestock inventories.

https://blog.humanesociety.org/2018/11/urgent-alert-act-now-to-stop-major-threat-to-wolves-in-congress.html

 

[Swordsmyth]

Probably not. But that wasn't the point as you're very well aware. But hey, keep up with the mendacious innuendo against anyone who fails to toe your rigidly partisan party line. It makes it easy for any sincere individuals to identify just exactly what you're about.

You were the one who implied that which party controlled the House had something to do with this.

The Demoncrats are much worse on many issues and they won't be any better on this one.

 

[goldenequity]

Rep. Mark Pocan (D) Wisconsin can't believe it either.

 

[CCTelander]

You were the one who implied that which party controlled the House had something to do with this.

The Demoncrats are much worse on many issues and they won't be any better on this one.

No, I did not. You erroneously inferred that instead of actually thinking about it or simply asking for clarification. What I actually implied was that Republicans, having control of both houses, had a perfect opportunity to actually do something to advance the cause of liberty and chose not to. But hey. At least it wasn't the Dems in control while the enabling of the slaughter of innocents was continued. Everyone knows that a Dem vote in favor of bombing innocent women and children is far worse than a Republican one. Give me a fucking break.

 

[charrob]

I'm srry to have started a duplicate thread... I didn't see your thread [MENTION=25495]charrob[/MENTION]. srry..
neg rep be upon me and may all my fiat currency burst into everlasting fire!!!!!!!!!!

No problem Goldenequity . I'll ask a moderator to merge the threads if that's all right with you?

 

[Swordsmyth]

No, I did not. You erroneously inferred that instead of actually thinking about it or simply asking for clarification. What I actually implied was that Republicans, having control of both houses, had a perfect opportunity to actually do something to advance the cause of liberty and chose not to. But hey. At least it wasn't the Dems in control while the enabling of the slaughter of innocents was continued. Everyone knows that a Dem vote in favor of bombing innocent women and children is far worse than a Republican one. Give me a $#@!ing break.

So it is much better to have our gun rights threatened along with so many other issues that the Demoncrats are horrible on?

The Republicans being in control had nothing to do with this and there are many issues that made them being in control much better than having the Demoncrats in control will be.

You can't take one issue where neither party is any better and use it to claim that having Republicans in control of the House does no good.

 

[goldenequity]

No problem Goldenequity . I'll ask a moderator to merge the threads if that's all right with you?

 

[charrob]

Thanks; just sent the message to merge threads .

 

[Ender]

I think private sanctuaries are very important. Many species like the white rhino are already extinct. The problem is finding people willing to fund private sanctuaries as more and more of the natural world becomes extinct at a faster and faster pace. The other issue would be that if the gray wolf is no longer part of the natural ecosystem (and only exists in private sanctuaries) it will affect the rest of the ecosystem:



I remember reading an article a few years ago: I think it was about for some reason people obliterating opossums. Not sure why, but they did. And many believe that is why we now have such an infestation of lyme disease and deer ticks. Just like blow-back in foreign policy, there is blow-back in nature/ecosystems when humans destroy species.

It's outside the scope of this argument, but I'm also opposed to unnecessary cruelty to any sentient live being. It's one thing to shoot a deer point blank between the eyes so its suffering is minimized. It's quite another to put traps out and have wolves, deer, and other live beings get their paws in one of these traps and linger for days and weeks in agony before they finally die. And, yes, this does happen. I think this cruelty should be outlawed by States, but if it's not, this is where I have no problem with a Federal law outlawing this kind of torture.

I do believe animals have rights. Maybe not the same rights as humans. But a right to be treated humanely.

I feel the same about animals and believe that wolves have a very important place in the eco-system

I don't want the gov involved but I do think real education in REAL science, including the values of wildlife, clean soil, the value of many things in nature- that are not understood by most people- could do more for the planet & all people in general, than all the laws and interference with natural life that is constantly done for Big Corps/Oil & the MIC.