Impeachment hearings on CSPan momentarily

[tron paul]

nice to see bob barr, the only prosecutor to take down a sitting president, using his nuclear option.

to all those thinking "what's the point, it's too late"

holding hearings like this one are a huge help in keeping the lame duck president as weak and boxed in as possible.

we need to keep the executive under domestic attack, so they cannot aggress against iran, etc.

 

[Peace&Freedom]

SOMEBODY GETS IT!!! Fein has said the same in interviews. The current President must be boxed in for the purposes of harm reduction (no attack on Iran), as well as to signal to the successor Presidents that the power seized and abused by Bush is NOT acceptable and will also be subject to impeachment proceedings.

 

[Dary]

It seems to me that the only thing this hearing did was give a green light to Bush to do whatever he wants to do during his last few months in office. He knows now that they have no intention of stopping him. They will not impeach. By not impeaching or moving forward with impeachment, in effect what they are saying is, the president hasn’t done anything wrong.

If he orders an attack on Iran, will they then bring him up on impeachment? My guess is no. In fact, if they did decide to bring him up on impeachment for attacking Iran, I’d bet his chances of beating the charges would increase cuz he could simply say “I attacked Iran using the same authorization you gave me for Iraq”. “If I’m not guilty for Iraq and you decided not to impeach me for those actions, how could I be guilty for Iran?”

Unless they would decide to bring him up on what was referred to as secondary charges in the hearing. FISA, torture, attorney general firings, etc… But the smoking gun is the evidence presented (or rather the lack of evidence presented) to congress when the administration made its request for the authorization.

The secondary charges would be harder to convict on since congress was complicit.

 

[dude58677]

It seems to me that the only thing this hearing did was give a green light to Bush to do whatever he wants to do during his last few months in office. He knows now that they have no intention of stopping him. They will not impeach. By not impeaching or moving forward with impeachment, in effect what they are saying is, the president hasn’t done anything wrong.

If he orders an attack on Iran, will they then bring him up on impeachment? My guess is no. In fact, if they did decide to bring him up on impeachment for attacking Iran, I’d bet his chances of beating the charges would increase cuz he could simply say “I attacked Iran using the same authorization you gave me for Iraq”. “If I’m not guilty for Iraq and you decided not to impeach me for those actions, how could I be guilty for Iran?”

Unless they would decide to bring him up on what was referred to as secondary charges in the hearing. FISA, torture, attorney general firings, etc… But the smoking gun is the evidence presented (or rather the lack of evidence presented) to congress when the administration made its request for the authorization.

The secondary charges would be harder to convict on since congress was complicit.

If I were George Bush, I would not want to have Vincent Buglisio to be advocating murder charges in any American courtroom along with the Ron Paul movement's "Campaign for Liberty". There are probably alot of RP supporters inspired to run for district attorney just to arrest George Bush. If I were George Bush, I'd be worried esp given that local RP's would call forth the citizen militia to raid Bushes home with AK 47's just to make the arrest. Some might use swat teams.

 

[Dary]

I wouldn't be worried. The next president would pardon him.

 

[LibertyEagle]

What are their reasons for NOT impeaching this SOB?

 

[dude58677]

I wouldn't be worried. The next president would pardon him.

1) He can't be pardoned if he is arrested by state and local officials. Pardon means that "I will order my US attorney's not to prosecute". They can't do this with state and local officials. A person can be tried in both a state and federal court for a federal crime.

2) If that future president strongly opposes the Iraq War, he will not be pardoned.

 

[LibertyEagle]

2) If that future president strongly opposes the Iraq War, he will not be pardoned.

Well, that leaves Obama and McCain out.

 

[Dary]

1) He can't be pardoned if he is arrested by state and local officials. Pardon means that "I will order my US attorney's not to prosecute". They can't do this with state and local officials. A person can be tried in both a state and federal court for a federal crime.

Cool. It would be nice, but I won't hold my breath. I guess I've just lost faith in our state and local officials.

2) If that future president strongly opposes the Iraq War, he will not be pardoned.

I'd think that there would be more to it then just that alone. Politics being what they are and all.

 

[dude58677]

Well, that leaves Obama and McCain out.

They can't because of the first point I made which is that it is a local and state official but even if they could a future that strongly oppses the Iraq War will not pardon him.


I give you something even more, some might just seize his assets without trial.

 

[Dary]

What are their reasons for NOT impeaching this SOB?

What I got out of the hearing was that they just don’t think that there is enough time.

What I THINK is that they don’t believe that they could get a conviction anyway, they aren’t willing to risk it politically, and basically, they want that power power too.

It might also make them look guilty too because in many ways they were extremely co-operative with Bush.

After all, they gave him everything he’s asked for in this so called war. Every request for funding, they signed off on, the patriot act, FISA, the recently passed bill concerning Iran (I think it was passed wasn't it?), everything.

 

[dude58677]

Cool. It would be nice, but I won't hold my breath. I guess I've just lost faith in our state and local officials.

Even if it is local RP officials?

I'd think that there would be more to it then just that alone. Politics being what they are and all.

A cop who hates Bush whether it is a liberal cop or a RP/Vincent Buglisio supporter could seize his assets without trial.

 

[Dary]

Even if it is local RP officials?

I didn't know such an animal existed.

A cop who hates Bush whether it is a liberal cop or a RP/Vincent Buglisio supporter could seize his assets without trial.

I guess that you're just more optimistic than I am. He's gonna get away with it is what I think. He could always move to Dubai, if they'd have him.

 

[dude58677]

I didn't know such an animal existed.



I guess that you're just more optimistic than I am. He's gonna get away with it is what I think. He could always move to Dubai, if they'd have him.

It is this very pessimism that you have is why he has gotten away with it for so long. Cheer up!

 

[Dary]

It is this very pessimism that you have is why he has gotten away with it for so long. Cheer up!

Hey it ain't my fault, and I'm fine thanks.

 

[dude58677]

Hey it ain't my fault, and I'm fine thanks.

I'm going to rephrase what I said. It is the attitude that Bush is above the law which is why he is getting away with it even if we want him punished. George Bush is a person like anyone else(He is a monster) and thus can be punished like everyone else. The people who died deserve justice and Buglisio outlined the plan on how to bring him to justice and Ron Paul inspired this country for freedom.

I'm playing by the numbers even if it 1 out of a thousand local officals(cop,DA, sheriff, etc)want to bring him to justice. It is enough.

 

[TheSkeptic]

1) He can't be pardoned if he is arrested by state and local officials. Pardon means that "I will order my US attorney's not to prosecute". They can't do this with state and local officials. A person can be tried in both a state and federal court for a federal crime.

You cannot try someone in a state court for a federal crime.

Many offenses are only punishable in federal court, and vice versa. But Bugliosi does seem to lay out a case in his book on how state courts can have jurisdiction.

Also, a pardon is a pardon. The states couldn't touch him.

 

[Dary]

It is the attitude that Bush is above the law which is why he is getting away with it even if we want him punished.

You might be right, but I still think that it has more to do with the wimps in congress and the fact that they want the exact same power that he has claimed in order to build on it and take us into other new (mis)adventures like Darfur etc.., and to institute their own plan for us here domestically.

I think that only the worst of the worst neo-con scum would actually believe that Bush is above the law. The lesser scum probably just feel like he's their guy, he’s one of them so they don’t want to eat one of their own and that he could do no wrong. Not that he couldn't break the law but that he’s incapable of it, being such a great guy and all. They believe in him.

Also, his being guilty would reflect badly on them and they don’t have what it takes in order to admit that they were wrong all along. They say that admitting to being wrong is the hardest thing to do. It brings self doubt. If they were wrong about him, what else could they be wrong about? Their whole world might start to fall apart.

Even shielding the constitution becomes secondary to them once their whole belief system crumbles around them.

 

[Liberty Star]

Slightly off topic, even Condi Rice is facing trouble out there in OZ land lol

New Zealand students offer new bounty for arrest of Condoleezza Rice for war crimes


The Associated Press
July 26, 2008


WELLINGTON, New Zealand: A group of New Zealand students offered a higher reward Saturday for the citizen's arrest of U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice for war crimes after another group withdrew their own bounty, accusing police of threatening them.

Students at Victoria University in the capital, Wellington, doubled the original reward offer to US$7,400, according to Joel Cosgrove, the student president.

Cosgrove said Rice should be arrested because she is responsible for the deaths of at least 600,000 Iraqis killed since the 2003 invasion by U.S.-led coalition troops.

"Condoleezza Rice needs to be tried before the international war crimes tribunal," Cosgrove told New Zealand's National Radio.

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/07/26/asia/AS-New-Zealand-Rice-Bounty.php

 

[Jaaaman]

I don't like Condi Rice, because she supports Obama in his bid to become our next President. But she is certainly not guilty of war crimes.