I'm becoming more radical with time

[outspoken]

In theory I consider myself an anarchist as it is a noble goal. As a realist, I am willing to settle on libertarianism. We have come a long ways, myself included. 10 years ago nobody even knew what a libertarian was except for people who had an academic background in politics or economics. Now it is mainstream; people want freedom, they just need to discover it apart from what the media and public school system indoctrinates them into believing it is.

 

[Sentient Void]

In theory I consider myself an anarchist as it is a noble goal. As a realist, I am willing to settle on libertarianism. We have come a long ways, myself included. 10 years ago nobody even knew what a libertarian was except for people who had an academic background in politics or economics. Now it is mainstream; people want freedom, they just need to discover it apart from what the media and public school system indoctrinates them into believing it is.

Definitely. ancap is the absolute ideal - it may take generations to achieve a controlled demolition of government through legalizing competition and opting out policies/legislation before it is achieved , if it can be achieved (and I think it can) - after enough of the population support at least mainstream libertarian philosophy, but it will be achieved. I would like to see it in my lifetime - though I don't expect it. But it's a wonderful thing to be a part of and experience the era of pushing things towards the tipping point.

I really, sincerely believe, that the State is on borrowed time. We *will* move towards a purely free market capitalist society, absent a State(s).

I agree that as a fellow 'realist' - we must acknowledge some semblance of gradualism if we are to make any decent gains towards that noble goal. But we must use *all* of the tools available to us in the toolbox of advancing liberty - whether that is voting, political activism, civil disobedience, counter-economics & agorism, one on one debate, debate forums, education of the amsses, infiltrating the mainstream media (with shows like Stossel and FreedomWatch), and on and on (as long as the tool does not violate the central tenet of libertarianism, which is the NAP).

 

[steph3n]

I started out growing up a religious conservative but as time goes on I find myself shifting. From Neocon to Libertarian and now teetering on the Libertarian/Anarchist edge. At this point I just don't know if I trust any amount of government or authority not to manipulate their power to benefit themselves.

I hate calling myself an anarchist because there's that high school angst rebellion stigma to it, but I think that's what I honestly am at this point. Anyone else find themselves going through this?

I am there. The system is lost, it can never find its way back. the two parties have destroyed the US. Help yourself, your friends, and educate them on helping themselves and others. You can greatest impact the people around you the most, make it count.

I embraced Libertarian title for a bit, but they are full of infighting and petty crap too, parties are evil groupthink. I am anarchist now. I like to portray myself as an anarchist, not a chaosist.

Anarchy is not chaos, it is the lack of central control, and reliance upon self governance.

 

[eproxy100]

Anarchy is just a temporary state - it cannot last. As demigod has said, it's human nature to form groups. That's exactly how you ended up with warlords, kings and socialists before. That's what would happen again. History DOES repeat itself. Remember, the world was an anarchy to begin with.

Other forms of governments are also temporary but not as short-lived as an anarchy. Even a libertarian state cannot be sustained. Afterall, it's the leaders who choose what laws to enforce and the majority picks the leaders. So if there is democracy (population elects leaders) then it'll always lead to socialism. If it's not democratic and the prior leader chooses the next leader then there'll eventually be a tyrant.

Ultimately, human nature is the problem.

 

[acptulsa]

Ultimately, human nature is the problem.

Well, we had better find the solution and quick. Because while we've been debating these finer points, the Senate just shoved the needle clear off the other end of the dial.

Minarchists, voluntaryists, ancaps and whatnot, welcome to totalitarianism. Time to stop splitting hairs. No need to ask how radical you are. Just time to be radical. We had better get our man this nomination or the game is over.

 

[pcosmar]

Radical ??

After finding Ron Paul and learning much here.. I finally found that I am sane and well adjusted.

The world is friggin' insane and twisted.

 

[AGRP]

Radical ??

After finding Ron Paul and learning much here.. I finally found that I am sane and well adjusted.

The world is friggin' insane and twisted.

x2

If by "radical" you mean the most peaceful and polite political philosophy on earth, then you would be right.

 

[Carehn]

We are the 2nd renaissance!

 

[Carehn]

In theory I consider myself an anarchist as it is a noble goal. As a realist, I am willing to settle on libertarianism. We have come a long ways, myself included. 10 years ago nobody even knew what a libertarian was except for people who had an academic background in politics or economics. Now it is mainstream; people want freedom, they just need to discover it apart from what the media and public school system indoctrinates them into believing it is.

Savage post. Must rep you!

 

[PaulConventionWV]

The problems I have with ancap are:

1) Free market justice. I, for one, don't think that, because governments are bad for most things, they are bad for all things. Yes, thinking government will solve all problems is absurd, but I think there can only be one standard for how disputes are settled, because trying to serve justice in a free market has so many technical problems, such as jurisdiction and appropriate punishment, which leads me to
2) Arbitrary law. Who decides which laws are just and which are not?
3) I don't believe any form of government can last. This includes self-government. At one time or another, someone is going to take over the place by conquest or consent and establish a government of their own, and it likely won't be as libertarian as our Constitution was made out to be.

 

[xFiFtyOnE]

I'm a Libertarian. A fairly new one at that. About a year ago I considered myself a conservative Republican. After years of feeling contempt for the party dealing with social issues and foreign policy I decided to switch. While I guess you could say I'm becoming more "radical...?", I still don't think I will ever be able to accept full blown anarchy. I just don't see how it could work.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Well, we had better find the solution and quick. Because while we've been debating these finer points, the Senate just shoved the needle clear off the other end of the dial.

Minarchists, voluntaryists, ancaps and whatnot, welcome to totalitarianism. Time to stop splitting hairs. No need to ask how radical you are. Just time to be radical. We had better get our man this nomination or the game is over.

My God, that.

While we sit around impotently complaining, engaging in endless philosophical circle jerks, feats of mental masturbation and finely honed arguments about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, the all powerful police state (which we all agree is the enemy) is running roughshod over the very last liberties and freedoms left.

That's why I'm inclined to give OWS a pass, at least they are doing something.

There is an old sailor's maxim, "Do something, even if it's wrong".

If there was any sense of justice, freedom, resistance and rational thought left in the American people, there would be ten million people in the streets, just in DC alone.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

My God, that.

While we sit around impotently complaining, engaging in endless philosophical circle jerks, feats of mental masturbation and finely honed arguments about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, the all powerful police state (which we all agree is the enemy) is running roughshod over the very last liberties and freedoms left.

That's why I'm inclined to give OWS a pass, at least they are doing something.

There is an old sailor's maxim, "Do something, even if it's wrong".

If there was any sense of justice, freedom, resistance and rational thought left in the American people, there would be ten million people in the streets, just in DC alone.

I like your attitude, but I wouldn't advocate doing the wrong thing for the sake of keeping busy. Ignorance is no excuse, and it will probably lead to bad things. I never give ignorance a pass. It is the duty of the people to figure out what's right and do it. I think educating as opposed to doing whatever feels right at the time is a much wiser strategy. Just doing anything can lead to unintended consequences.

 

[pcosmar]

Just doing anything can lead to unintended consequences.

Doing nothing can lead to unintended consequences. Going along can as well.

That is how we find ourselves here. Still playing the game that was rigged long ago.

Until the wall of riot police faces a wall of rifles,, nothing is going to change.

 

[QueenB4Liberty]

Not so much apathy as hopelessness. This will be my final hurrah. If Ron Paul doesn't get the nomination, I'm done with the charade. I'm going off grid.

This! Me too!

 

[Anti Federalist]

I like your attitude, but I wouldn't advocate doing the wrong thing for the sake of keeping busy. Ignorance is no excuse, and it will probably lead to bad things. I never give ignorance a pass. It is the duty of the people to figure out what's right and do it. I think educating as opposed to doing whatever feels right at the time is a much wiser strategy. Just doing anything can lead to unintended consequences.

We're out of time to educate.

I used an analogy in a PM, that applies here, and why, even though you make valid points, I am so nonplussed at the idea of continuing to try and "educate".

You come across a house on fire, you dash in, trying to save the people inside.

You scream into their faces: "the building is on fire get out NOW!"

Imagine how flabbergasted you would be, if, instead of leaving they just stood there, and you had to sit down, in the heat and smoke and flames, and calmly and slowly explain to them why they had to get out.

 

[moderate libertarian]

I started out growing up a religious conservative but as time goes on I find myself shifting. From Neocon to Libertarian and now teetering on the Libertarian/Anarchist edge. At this point I just don't know if I trust any amount of government or authority not to manipulate their power to benefit themselves.

I hate calling myself an anarchist because there's that high school angst rebellion stigma to it, but I think that's what I honestly am at this point. Anyone else find themselves going through this?

I don't fully understand anarchism but being libertarian and distrusting of the government is a great change for anyone. As Americans we are born to resent government or at least that used to be the case going by our history of our birth, so welcome back home.
For the record, I think many in current Congress are useless idiots as is clueless in chief who accidentally occupies the white house.

 

[thehungarian]

OP's story sounds like my own progression. As I think more about it I don't think my core beliefs wavered much, if at all. My own view of what I though was cluttered by talk radio, MSM and right wing blogs. I voted for Bush in '04 when I was 18 and then McCain in '08 because I told myself I was fighting "TEH LIBERALS", all the while pushing my true beliefs down. So, I've gone from thinking I was left-wing in high school during Bush's 2nd term to thinking I'm neocon because who doesn't want to defend Israel, amirite? Next came RINO dissenter and then libertarianism. Once you consider yourself libertarian then anarchism is just one step away and that's where I'm at right now and I feel like this is what I should've been advocating my whole life.

Drunk rant.

 

[Aden]

I hate calling myself an anarchist because there's that high school angst rebellion stigma to it, but I think that's what I honestly am at this point. Anyone else find themselves going through this?

Here is a quick recap of my political and philosophical journey over the past decade. After the attacks of 9/11 I towed the neocon Republican line. In 2004 I reluctantly supported Bush because I was unhappy that he tripled the size of government and infringed upon our civil liberties (I only wanted the feds to do that to the brown Muslims). The primaries got started early in 2007 but I ignored them because I was sick of it all—it seemed like the Republicans and Democrats were arguing specifics over the same general policies.

Finally, in October 2007 I took to the Internet to see if any of them were not an establishment hack. That is when I discovered liberty and freedom, as manifested in the 70-year-old body of an uncharismatic white guy; namely, Ron Paul. Paul rocked my world and long story short he made me realize that I was wrong on the wars, foreign policy and civil liberties. He made me realize how un-Christian many of my views and positions were. Researching Ron’s arch-enemy, the Federal Reserve, woke me up to every “conspiracy theory” under the sun.

Paul also made me realize how ignorant I was about the U.S. Constitution. I actually pulled it out and read it, and rethought every position to see if it lined up with the document. By spring 2008 my views sounded like the average Tea Partier today:confine the feds to Article 1 Section 8, return sovereignty back to the states and people where it belongs, etc. Over the next few years I continued to think about and study the Constitution. At some point I came to the realization that the concept and principles behind it, the rights enshrined it… the document was simply amazing. I realized that the Founders truly did create an awesome experiment, and in my opinion, the best form of government devised by man. BAM! That is when it hit me like a ton of bricks: not even the best Constitution ever devised is enough to keep government in check. In short, I realized that government will never work.

That was a year ago or so. Since that time I have considered myself an anarchist/anarcho-capitalist. I don’t want government, period.

 

[Lothario]

what's the difference between a libertarian minarchist, and an libertarian anarchist?

at most a couple of years...less if you're paying attention.

as someone said above, as soon as your libertarianism becomes rooted in the universal morality of the non-aggression principle - then anarchy becomes the necessary and logical conclusion.