I'm an athiest, is there a place for me in the Liberty/Ron Paul movement?

idirtify said:
First posted by jmdrake:
“Fine. Then quit supporting an avowed Christian (Ron Paul) and someone who would endorse a theocrat Christian for president (Ron Paul endorsing Chuck Baldwin) and go find some atheist libertarian (Penn Jillette) to support for president.”

Reply posted by idirtify:
“And regarding your instruction that I leave the RP movement…”



Credibility sufficiently destroyed / nuf said.
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It's funny how you repeat the same stupidity, and think that just because I don't have credibility with a moron such as yourself that counts for anybody else.

Apparently you don't know the meaning of the word "then" as in "If this, then that". So if you hate Christianity soooo much that you hate it as much as you do big government then it makes no sense for you to support Ron Paul. Now if you want to be illogical, sure hang around and be a douche. But if you want to be logical then it makes more sense to support someone whom you agree with as much as you do Ron Paul and also has a chance to win. That person would be Barack Obama. You and he hold the same disdain for Christianity. Really it's your own credibility that's gone at this point. Enough said indeed.
 
jmdrake said:
It's funny how you repeat the same stupidity, and think that just because I don't have credibility with a moron such as yourself that counts for anybody else.

Apparently you don't know the meaning of the word "then" as in "If this, then that". So if you hate Christianity soooo much that you hate it as much as you do big government then it makes no sense for you to support Ron Paul. Now if you want to be illogical, sure hang around and be a douche. But if you want to be logical then it makes more sense to support someone whom you agree with as much as you do Ron Paul and also has a chance to win. That person would be Barack Obama. You and he hold the same disdain for Christianity. Really it's your own credibility that's gone at this point. Enough said indeed.
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It’s funny that you are characterizing my disagreements as “hate”, yet you are the one initiating insults. Isn’t calling me a “moron” and a “douche” far more HATEFUL than any of my comments?

It’s funny how you call my comment that your credibility was sufficiently destroyed as “stupidity”, yet you further reduce your credibility by continuing to use the old “hating” tactic (using the old worn-out tactic of calling my disagreements “hate” in order to try to discredit them) AFTER I called you out on it (“transposing disagreements made by the opposition into their ‘hating’ is one of the oldest partisan strawman tricks in the book”).

It’s funny that you call ME a “moron”, yet you are the one denying that your previous instruction to me to “then quit supporting an avowed Christian” was not an instruction. You now claim that the word “then” indicates that your comment actually meant “then it makes no sense to support an avowed Christian”. No, it doesn’t mean that! You wrote what you wrote. So… supposedly I am the moron, yet you are the one trying to go back in time and change your wording – and claiming that I should have known that you meant something other than what you wrote.

It’s also funny that you are the one defending religion, yet you are also the one initiating hostility and insults.

So the ball is in your court, and we will wait and see what you choose to do with your hostility; eliminate it, reduce it, continue it, or escalate it. You see, credibility is a lot like any bad situation: “it can always be worse”. Do you care about your credibility?
 
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idirtify said:
It’s funny that you are characterizing my disagreements as “hate”, yet you are the one initiating insults. Isn’t calling me a “moron” and a “douche” far more HATEFUL than any of my comments?
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:rolleyes: You were that started off in this thread defending hate of Christianity. And as for my comments, if they are offensive I apologize. I should have used better words to describe your complete lack of logic. It's really simple. You put it perfectly yourself, you just didn't understand (apparently) the implications of what you wrote. If you think that Christianity and "big government" are both so equally bad such that supporting one or the other is a simple matter of "flipping a coin" than you had a 50/50 chance of choosing Ron Paul versus Barack Obama. One openly supports Christianity, the other openly supports big government. But Barack Obama had the added advantage of being electable. So logic should mean that your support would naturally tip to Obama instead of Paul. Why didn't it? The "ball is in your court" to explain that. (I won't be holding my breath though).

Side note. It's funny that people like you start off with the attacks (defending hate) and then cry "victim" when someone else responds. I see that tactic all of the time really. I guess I should stop falling for it. Very good troll my man. Very good troll.
 
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jmdrake said:
:rolleyes: You were that started off in this thread defending hate of Christianity. And as for my comments, if they are offensive I apologize. I should have used better words to describe your complete lack of logic. It's really simple. You put it perfectly yourself, you just didn't understand (apparently) the implications of what you wrote. If you think that Christianity and "big government" are both so equally bad such that supporting one or the other is a simple matter of "flipping a coin" than you had a 50/50 chance of choosing Ron Paul versus Barack Obama. One openly supports Christianity, the other openly supports big government. But Barack Obama had the added advantage of being electable. So logic should mean that your support would naturally tip to Obama instead of Paul. Why didn't it? The "ball is in your court" to explain that. (I won't be holding my breath though).

Side note. It's funny that people like you start off with the attacks (defending hate) and then cry "victim" when someone else responds. I see that tactic all of the time really. I guess I should stop falling for it. Very good troll my man. Very good troll.
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If I remember correctly, my comment wasn’t “defending hate of Christianity” as much as it was explaining that any disagreement with any belief could be termed as a “hate”. And regarding a “lack of logic”, you have somehow managed to twist that comment into meaning that I should really be supporting Obama instead of RP. That’s quite an achievement in the art of distortion. While I realize that RP is a Christian, I don’t think he exploits his religion at work, or discriminates against other religions (or atheism), or is a theocrat.

Regarding your “apology” that included the condition “if they are offensive”: How exactly would the insults “moron” and “douche” not be offensive? And since you also appear to blame me (“cry ‘victim’”) for confronting your insults, allow me to hold off on determining the sincerity of your apology.

And regarding your hostility: You almost managed to control it this time, until the end in your “side note” where you:
1) Include my person in that bad old group called “people like you”;
2) Falsely imply that I have been attacking people;
3) Blame me for confronting your insults;
4) Falsely call it a “tactic”;
5) Slip in a couple “troll” accusations.

Do you not care about your credibility? Typically insults and hostility only indicate that a poster can not support his argument.
 
You guys Geek me out


Without speaking of Christianity as an institution, Christians themselves have done many great things for the benefit of all.

Without speaking of atheism as an institution, I could say the same.


Some of you are responding to each as if you HATE each other.

When we could be united in some common cause that Ron Paul probably stands for himself.


What states are all you people bickering from, anyway?
 
idirtify said:
If I remember correctly, my comment wasn’t “defending hate of Christianity” as much as it was explaining that any disagreement with any belief could be termed as a “hate”

1) blah blah
2) blah blah
3) blah blah
4) blah blah
5) blah blah
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I see you are now stooping to your "post a list" tactic to avoid answering the question which is why not support Obama if you feel that Christianity is as much a threat as big government and choosing between the two is like "flipping a coin"? Yes I've seen this pattern from you before. Nice try. :)

Oh, and for the record you did defend "hating Christianity".

Unless you think most posters in LF are wrong, most posts in LF indicate that there is nothing wrong with “hating” a belief system. For example: How many of us can claim that we don’t hate belief in big government (usually abbreviated by “big government”). Allow me to submit that there is nothing necessarily wrong with “hate” as long as it is directed at the right culprit.
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So no. You did not "recall correctly". ;)
 
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eproxy100 said:
I suggest not wasting your time with him, idirtify. You cannot reason with fanatics!
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Childish name calling like this won't win you too many friends on this board, especially Christians. Seriously, why do atheists feel the need to belittle anything religious (particularly anything Christian) in their day to day lives? If a belief in a higher power helps a person get through their day a little better then what's the big deal? Geez, atheists wonder why they have trouble being elected to office . Maybe if they actually had respect for other individuals' beliefs instead of mocking them...
 
jmdrake said:
I see you are now stooping snip
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If you post under my quote again, please don’t change my words.

You are incorrect. I answered right here:
“While I realize that RP is a Christian, I don’t think he exploits his religion at work, or discriminates against other religions (or atheism), or is a theocrat.”

And your second quote only proves the other answer that I previously gave (Your first quote):
“my comment wasn’t ‘defending hate of Christianity’ as much as it was explaining that any disagreement with any belief could be termed as a ‘hate’.”
 
James Madison said:
Childish name calling like this won't win you too many friends on this board, especially Christians. Seriously, why do atheists feel the need to belittle anything religious (particularly anything Christian) in their day to day lives? If a belief in a higher power helps a person get through their day a little better then what's the big deal? Geez, atheists wonder why they have trouble being elected to office . Maybe if they actually had respect for other individuals' beliefs instead of mocking them...
Click to expand...

James,

If you look at jmdrake’s posts to me, especially post number 341, you will see far worse name-calling. And if you keep watching, you will see that the ones advocating religion are typically the ones who initiate insults against the atheists.
 
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idirtify said:
James,

If you look at jmdrake’s posts to me, especially post number 341, you will see far worse name-calling. And if you keep watching, you will see that the ones advocating religion are typically the ones who initiate insults against the atheists.
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Yes, and I do not defend his name calling. However, it's been my own experience that atheists tend to be far more hostile to Christians than vice versa (I'm in the field of biology so there's quite a few atheists around). I don't mean to insult you personally or anyone on this board; it's just that I don't think insulting others gets us anywhere.
 
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James Madison said:
Childish name calling like this won't win you too many friends on this board, especially Christians. Seriously, why do atheists feel the need to belittle anything religious (particularly anything Christian) in their day to day lives? If a belief in a higher power helps a person get through their day a little better then what's the big deal? Geez, atheists wonder why they have trouble being elected to office . Maybe if they actually had respect for other individuals' beliefs instead of mocking them...
Click to expand...

Yes, cuz calling someone a fanatic is really "childish" name calling.

Alright you RPF FREEDOM FANATICS, I'm name calling you all! :rolleyes:

It brings out an important point about connotations vs denotations though. Because of connotations people are easier to brainwash, like when the media use specific words to make something seem bad even though it isn't.
 
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idirtify said:
James,

If you look at jmdrake’s posts to me, especially post number 341, you will see far worse name-calling. And if you keep watching, you will see that the ones advocating religion are typically the ones who initiate insults against the atheists.
Click to expand...

You started the ad homenims by defending hate bub and now you won't own up to it. You start the attacks, draw a response and then try to play "victim". Typical troll behavior. And read the entire thread. It was started by atheist who started out talking about how he "hated religion". And yet most people including me were nice to him anyway. Go play victim somewhere else.
 
eproxy100 said:
Yes, cuz calling someone a fanatic is really "childish" name calling.

Alright you RPF FREEDOM FANATICS, I'm name calling you all! :rolleyes:

It brings out an important point about connotations vs denotations though. Because of connotations people are easier to brainwash, like when the media use specific words to make something seem bad even though it isn't.
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And yet you support a "fanatic" for president. How quaint. :rolleyes: Ron Paul is more of a fanatic than I am by the way. Unlike Paul I never said the constitution was "replete with references to God" or that there was a "war on religion". And while I still think Dr. Paul was wrong about the constitution being "replete with references to God" I'm beginning to think he was correct on his "war on religion" point. You're making me more fanatical just like Dr. Paul. Maybe that's your goal. ;)
 
jmdrake said:
You started the ad homenims by defending hate bub and now you won't own up to it. You start the attacks, draw a response and then try to play "victim". Typical troll behavior. And read the entire thread. It was started by atheist who started out talking about how he "hated religion". And yet most people including me were nice to him anyway. Go play victim somewhere else.
Click to expand...

As you are well aware, my comments about hate were entirely related to the message/belief and NOT the person. No matter how you try to distort it, hating a message can not possibly be ad hominem. And since I’m sure you are also well aware of the correct definition of ad hominem, it’s amazing that you are trying to blame me the insults you initiated. What is vividly apparent at this point is that you aren’t the slightest bit apologetic as you previously claimed. Therefore, I’m gonna have to go ahead and flag your post.
 
idirtify said:
As you are well aware, my comments about hate were entirely related to the message/belief and NOT the person.
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It doesn't matter. You hate the "message/belief" of Christianity as much as you hate the "message/belief" of big government. So why did you not support Obama who shares your disdain for Christianity but supports big government since it's just a "flip of a coin" (your words) as to which one is worse? Please answer the question. If its just a "flip of a coin" then logic would dictate supporting the candidate who at least had the best chance of winning. I thank you in advance for your thoughtful response.
 
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