Illegal Immigration IRS Fraud - You won't believe this...
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After reading libertyjam's post, it dawned on me what his / her thinking is all about. Having debated these people for the past ten years, the following link gives a good summary of how they approach the issue and why they're wrong:
http://www.freeforum101.com/outcastsandoutl/viewtopic.php?t=531&mforum=outcastsandoutl
Just to illustrate the fact that libertyjam is either uneducated OR a National Socialist, we will look at one of his / her cites and see what comes out of it by way of a response. One of the cites has a section which reads (in part):
"General for activities that enhance enforcement of provisions of this subchapter. Such activities include—
(i) the identification, investigation, apprehension, detention, and removal of criminal aliens; ..."
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1330
On that one sentence, libertyjam probably concludes that is referring to people the National Socialists delight in calling "illegal aliens."
The first problem with that line of thought is that, even in modern jurisprudence, a person is not a criminal any damn thing until they have been arrested pursuant to probable cause, booked, jailed, made bail, etc., etc. to the point that a judge and / or jury convicts them. The law can be talking about no one other than that class of foreigners. If they're a fugitive of justice and come here, they would be a criminal alien; if convicted of an actual crime in the U.S. they would be a criminal alien, but that cite does not support the position that libertyjam takes on this board.
http://www.freeforum101.com/outcastsandoutl/viewtopic.php?t=531&mforum=outcastsandoutl
Just to illustrate the fact that libertyjam is either uneducated OR a National Socialist, we will look at one of his / her cites and see what comes out of it by way of a response. One of the cites has a section which reads (in part):
"General for activities that enhance enforcement of provisions of this subchapter. Such activities include—
(i) the identification, investigation, apprehension, detention, and removal of criminal aliens; ..."
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1330
On that one sentence, libertyjam probably concludes that is referring to people the National Socialists delight in calling "illegal aliens."
The first problem with that line of thought is that, even in modern jurisprudence, a person is not a criminal any damn thing until they have been arrested pursuant to probable cause, booked, jailed, made bail, etc., etc. to the point that a judge and / or jury convicts them. The law can be talking about no one other than that class of foreigners. If they're a fugitive of justice and come here, they would be a criminal alien; if convicted of an actual crime in the U.S. they would be a criminal alien, but that cite does not support the position that libertyjam takes on this board.
libertyjam
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And here we have it: For deigning to ask a simple, legal question, Enforcer assumes the mind and thought of the inquisitor. He may have a point in all his diatribe of crap, but he loses it when he labels any one who deigns to challenge or even question him as "uneducated OR a National Socialist" (i.e. NAZI).
In fact in research I find he is likely correct on one thing, simply crossing the border unauthorized in current legal code AFAIK is a civil violation only, but still carries a penalty of being deportable and fined. He thinks that the term 'illegal' is only applicable to criminal fugitives. I merely list portions of the existing civil code that has the exact so called offensive terminology. In strictly legal terms we can also go to a legal dictionary:
illegal 1) adj. in violation of statute, regulation or ordinance, which may be criminal or merely not in conformity. Thus, an armed robbery is illegal, and so is an access road which is narrower than the county allows, but the violation is not criminal. 2) a person residing in a country of which he/she is not a citizen and who has no official permission to be there. (See: alien, illegal immigrant) http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/illegal
So notwithstanding any moral, ethical, or political arguments, in a legal sense I don't think I would hire Enforcer for legal advice. Furthermore I am invoking Godwin's rule and placing him on double-secret ignore for being such a putz.
Oh, and you are reported. since I'm such a National Socialist.
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I have given a link that very clearly goes in depth to explain WHY I use the term National Socialist. If you read it and disagreed with how the determination was made, you should have listed such disagreement here or preferably on that other thread. After having debated the TOP representatives of the anti - immigrant lobby for the past ten years AND after watching them destroy themselves as well as set bad precedents, I'm not going to sugar coat what it is you presented on this board.
Hey, if you're bucking to get me banned, it merely proves the hollow ring all that B.S. we hear from those who profess to be about Liberty, but delight in calling others names while not being able to take it when it comes back on you. As they say, ignorance of the law is no excuse.
The bottom line is, NOBODY is an "illegal" any damn thing until they've been arrested, booked, etc., etc. to the point of a judge and / or jury declaring them to be a criminal. You wouldn't hire me? Oh yeah, I guess you'd hire one of those beaming paragons of human virtue from of the anti - immigrant lobby. Currently, you cannot tell me of a single, solitary one of them that has not been publicly linked to National Socialists. It was factually done at the referenced thread:
http://www.freeforum101.com/outcastsandoutl/viewtopic.php?t=531&mforum=outcastsandoutl
If I disappear from this board, at least you'll know that libertyjam has about as much love of Liberty as the SPLC does. What was said was factual. Furthermore, if you want a more detailed description of illegal, unlawful and improper see this:
http://www.freeforum101.com/outcastsandoutl/viewtopic.php?t=87&mforum=outcastsandoutl
BTW, I just read that last post...nobody called you a National Socialist. You were accused of using their terminology. You've shown us you can't read. I said it was either / or well maybe it's both. I don't know, but it appears I'm pretty close... wouldn't you agree?
Finally, a very narrow definition from one source that isn't even authoritative doesn't prove much when defining terms.
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L
LibForestPaul
Guest
Yes, yes, don't worry about all the services they use, or the increased crime that requires increased police powers, or the increased medical, or increased housing services all on my dime.
You can throw BS facts out, I can throw bullshit facts out. Until the gun that is pointed at my head requiring me to pay for services that I do not want, provide for people I do care about, illegals out, now...
when my property is restored to be rightfully mine, and not taxed to hell
when my labor is mine for me to profit from, and not confiscated for others benefits
then we can dream together about being the land of opportunity once again for all of humanity
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Zippyjuan
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Any reliable figures on the actual rate of this fraud other than anectotal information that somebody knows of somebody else doing it? The IRS does not keep track from who filing is legal or not so it is impossible to know if this is actually a serious problem or a rarity among those not in the country legally.
Here is the actual report cited in the origninal piece: http://www.treasury.gov/tigta/auditreports/2011reports/201141061fr.pdf
It points out that while those who are in the country illegally and working may have a fake Social Security number or the alternative Individual Taxpayer ID Number (ITIN, not all of the people with an ITIN are in the country illegally (they may be legal residents here working)
They don't know what percent of ITIN number users are in the country legally vs illegally so it is difficult to try to guess (and it would only be guessing) how many are illegal and thus how many illegal aliens would be trying to take advantage of the child tax credit. Illegal aliens may also have a forged Social Security number they give employers and not using ITINs.
The $4.2 billion claimed to be given to illegal imigrants is the total amount paid out to ALL users of ITIN numbers- those here legally and illegally so it is erroneous to say that the entire amount goes to illegal aliens.
The Child Tax Credit is for up to 1,000 per child.
Here is the actual report cited in the origninal piece: http://www.treasury.gov/tigta/auditreports/2011reports/201141061fr.pdf
It points out that while those who are in the country illegally and working may have a fake Social Security number or the alternative Individual Taxpayer ID Number (ITIN, not all of the people with an ITIN are in the country illegally (they may be legal residents here working)
They don't know what percent of ITIN number users are in the country legally vs illegally so it is difficult to try to guess (and it would only be guessing) how many are illegal and thus how many illegal aliens would be trying to take advantage of the child tax credit. Illegal aliens may also have a forged Social Security number they give employers and not using ITINs.
The $4.2 billion claimed to be given to illegal imigrants is the total amount paid out to ALL users of ITIN numbers- those here legally and illegally so it is erroneous to say that the entire amount goes to illegal aliens.
All filers- regardless of their imigration status.
The Child Tax Credit is for up to 1,000 per child.
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