If you want to understand why some Christian Libertarians might not vote for Paul, read...

So, not banning drugs implies acceptance? That is exactly the problem I have. If that is the type of attitude Ron Paul has, he ain't gonna win, and I can't do anything to change that.

It's not that people are going to all go out and do heroin, but that it isn't the government's business to tell someone not to do it. Obviously you agree. But it also isn't like everyone is going to love heroin use, people can not like something, at the same time they can also respect someone else's personal choice to do the thing they dislike.
 
As a Christian who highly respects Douglas Wilson, I really think he has a great point about Congressman Paul, and it's been a concern of mine for quite some time. Many times, Dr. Paul comes off as being neutral about his libertarian views, and he does not connect them with his spiritual beliefs. From a presuppositional point of view, that only makes his views arbitrary because they lack an objective grounding for them to be valid.

Don't get me wrong. I love Congressman Paul a lot. I believe he is a man of principle and integrity, and I'm sure he loves Jesus. He has the best platform, by far, than any other candidate in the race. All I'm saying is he needs to be a better philosopher and connect the dots between his spiritual beliefs and his political views. Once he does that, he will gain more of the "Huckabee-types" on his side. I guarantee it.

Upon reading Wilson's blog and the comments under it, it occurs to me that they might have such a high standard that no one will ever achieve to get their vote, so they will either not vote, or pick whoever has the best chance at beating the Democrat (a version of the lesser evil). This thinking is common to conservatives of all stripes, not just Christians, and maybe anyone who has an intricate set of principles, even true marxists and ideological progressives might do this.

The end result is that the candidate who can whip up the most hype to "gain a following" and top the polls will end up getting the votes of even people who claim to be principled. It's like working the RP booth at gun shows in 2008. There were people who knew enough about the law and had the most principled constitutional convictions that they could probably run for office themselves, but were too picky about some minor little detail of what RP said once or one particular vote he took that somehow made him as worthless as the worst guy on the ballot. It's as if a completely different standard is applied to someone who focuses on principle and the constitution than those who simply parrot psychologically perfected talking points.

In response to your comment, I get that you want him to make a connection between his personal life and how he applies his principles to the job of legislating or governing. I don't think it's necessary for him to directly lay out bible scriptures to back specific ideas, that amount of detail would be too wonkish and not really give the personal connection that is really needed. He actually did something just like that in Iowa a couple months ago, at the Family Leader event. I found it interesting, but it didn't flow very well - since he isn't very experienced at preaching/teaching like Huckabee is - and would clearly turn off any audience that isn't seriously biblical Christians; I would advise not doing that ever again.

But he could use more commonly understood analogies instead of specific biblical ones. Much like Dr. Phil does, though certainly not the same ones, but in a similar manner.

This point of connecting his personal life to the principles may also be a good way to get women more interested in the ideas and help them feel more comfortable with him. It was on a different thread the other day, but I wrote about the female mind being much more complex and needing a more personable connection, not merely facts and figures that men like, in order for women to trust that he would do what's best for the country. As an obstetrician delivering babies for so many women, he had earned the trust of hundreds of women in his district, that's what made it easier for him to win all those Congressional races -- even defeating an incumbent three times. He needs to find a way to connect with women, and people in general, on a personal level that builds that trust. Theoretical recitations and biblical lectures aren't going to do it.
 
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It's not that people are going to all go out and do heroin, but that it isn't the government's business to tell someone not to do it. Obviously you agree. But it also isn't like everyone is going to love heroin use, people can not like something, at the same time they can also respect someone else's personal choice to do the thing they dislike.

But some people will! And should we just let them perish?
 
But some people will! And should we just let them perish?

Is locking them up going to cure what ails them? How are you going to differentiate the ones who will perish from the ones who will hit rock bottom, turn to the Lord, and save themselves? Are you interfering with, rather than aiding, their salvation?

The problem with people who are too zealous in doing God's work is they begin to assume God is granting them omniscience. But He didn't make us capable of it. So, we wind up with dangerous presumptuousness. And devilish arrogance.
 
But some people will! And should we just let them perish?

I don't really have a problem with that only because most times I realize intervention just gets the opposite results. But by all means, encourage your family members not to do destructive things but don't punish/alienate them for doing so.
 
Is locking them up going to cure what ails them? How are you going to differentiate the ones who will perish from the ones who will hit rock bottom, turn to the Lord, and save themselves? Are you interfering with, rather than aiding, their salvation?

The problem with people who are too zealous in doing God's work is they begin to assume God is granting them omniscience. But He didn't make us capable of it. So, we wind up with dangerous presumptuousness. And devilish arrogance.

What fool started the rumor that I said we should lock people in jail for abusing drugs?
 
"Eat the Meat, Spit Out the Bones"

Upon reading Wilson's blog and the comments under it, it occurs to me that they might have such a high standard that no one will ever achieve to get their vote, so they will either not vote, or pick whoever has the best chance at beating the Democrat (a version of the lesser evil). This thinking is common to conservatives of all stripes, not just Christians, and maybe anyone who has an intricate set of principles, even true marxists and ideological progressives might do this.

The end result is that the candidate who can whip up the most hype to "gain a following" and top the polls will end up getting the votes of even people who claim to be principled. It's like working the RP booth at gun shows in 2008. There were people who knew enough about the law and had the most principled constitutional convictions that they could probably run for office themselves, but were too picky about some minor little detail of what RP said once or one particular vote he took that somehow made him as worthless as the worst guy on the ballot. It's as if a completely different standard is applied to someone who focuses on principle and the constitution than those who simply parrot psychologically perfected talking points.

I see your concern, and I, too, find it frustrating when a person can agree with 99% of a person's views, but then allow the 1% of disagreement to lose support for him. I would say maybe Douglas Wilson is being a little "perfectionistic" in his standards for supporting Congressman Paul (even though he has supported him in the past), but at least I understand, theologically, why that is.

As for me, I support Congressman Paul because I know he's a Christian, but I also see Biblical grounds for most of his political views (even if Dr. Paul refuses to present them on those grounds). He's not a Douglas Wilson-type of debater, but he does present his views in a rational and Constitutional manner, which is so rare for the average politician today. So, my support for Dr. Paul continues, even if a mentor like Wilson, is not pleased with Dr. Paul's views on drugs.
 
Exactly. Most of the libertarian leaning individuals are here.

Steve is right on, that's why you need to make them think Ron is their guy.

Honestly it isn't from all I've seen, I've worked for 4 years to convert about 20 so-cons to liberty minded. There are many magnitudes more that want nothing less than prohibition, all out legislation of morality.

they talk a great small govt talk but then when it comes to legislating morality, they jump all up on that.
 
I see your concern, and I, too, find it frustrating when a person can agree with 99% of a person's views, but then allow the 1% of disagreement to lose support for him. I would say maybe Douglas Wilson is being a little "perfectionistic" in his standards for supporting Congressman Paul (even though he has supported him in the past), but at least I understand, theologically, why that is.

As for me, I support Congressman Paul because I know he's a Christian, but I also see Biblical grounds for most of his political views (even if Dr. Paul refuses to present them on those grounds). He's not a Douglas Wilson-type of debater, but he does present his views in a rational and Constitutional manner, which is so rare for the average politician today. So, my support for Dr. Paul continues, even if a mentor like Wilson, is not pleased with Dr. Paul's views on drugs.

Wilson himself I don't think is very influential as far as the votes of the Christian community, but I do think his attitude is the general attitude in the Christian population. Ron Paul must address people's concerns about what to do with drug addicts in a free society. If he has the Social Darwinian view of some of the contributors to this thread, then he can't win, and there's nothing anyone can do about it. I don't think that is the case, of course.
 
This is exactly what I've been trying to rail home. Many here are trying to convince a small segment of voters, likely at the extremes of a standard curve, to vote for Ron. Hell, you'll have an easier time convincing the average voter with a fraction of the effort.

However, it seems a number of supporters here just like to argue for the sake of being right. Just as "Detail oriented" as the people they are complaining about.
 
So, not banning drugs implies acceptance? That is exactly the problem I have. If that is the type of attitude Ron Paul has, he ain't gonna win, and I can't do anything to change that.

If the country would look at the facts, look at the 20's with prohibition, look at the utter waste of money we spend on the 'war on drugs', it would all become quite clear.

I've never used drugs, and have no interest in them, never smoked and no interest, and in fact flee from places where people are smoking (legally smoking). It is all a personal choice, that is given to us by God.

In fact many 'drugs' are perfectly normal natural substances that we as man have deemed to be 'inappropriate' for some reason or another, even with no evidence of them being more harmful than other legal substances.

Prescriptions are just as bad or worse of an issue than the illicit drugs, doctors over prescribe everything these days. when will he have a crackdown on doctors abuse of giving a pill for every issue? Most people have far too much of a glowing view of doctors these days, while there are certainly some good ones there are a lot just raised in a drug to fix anything world.

I don't understand why this is such a huge deal to you if you agree with it even partially. Sure Ron could word a lot of things better, but he WON'T. If you can't get over there, you need to look toward the huckster, because he's good at saying one thing(what people want to hear) and doing another. Not to mention releasing violent criminals!
 
What fool started the rumor that I said we should lock people in jail for abusing drugs?

You were talking about intervening with addicts. Ever deal with one in person? I thought not, or you wouldn't be thinking intervening and preventing them from harming themselves involves giving them freedom of action.

Ron needs to do that. It's not my job.

Oh, so the nation is addicted to the sweet b.s. of something that is out to destroy them, and you'll do nothing to help them get over it? Well, now.
 
Remind the Body What It's Supposed to Do, Ron

Wilson himself I don't think is very influential as far as the votes of the Christian community, but I do think his attitude is the general attitude in the Christian population. Ron Paul must address people's concerns about what to do with drug addicts in a free society. If he has the Social Darwinian view of some of the contributors to this thread, then he can't win, and there's nothing anyone can do about it. I don't think that is the case, of course.

I agree, my brother, and when Congressman Paul does address those concerns, he must stress the need for churches and families to be involved in the drug issue on the local level, as ministerial agencies counter to our intrusive federal government.
 
Ron needs to do that. It's not my job.
Ron hardly has the platform to convince everyone, it sounds like you doubt so much your own support for him that you can't convince others that what he says is right. Maybe because you really don't believe it is? thats fine, but there is far more than a drug issue on the table there.

Where the president has the most power in cabinet picks and overall direction is much more powerful and where we need to go, Ron is not a single issue candidate, but if you wanted to say he was, his single most important issue is having a solid economy, which is what we all need now more than anything.
 
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Question: Do you guys want Ron Paul to be President of the United States on January 20, 2013?
 
Well, if not offending people you need to win means lying, the campaign is over before it has even begun.

if people are offended maybe they need to evaluate better where they stand in all regards, their opinions, their walk with their chosen Saviour, the way the approach their life?
 
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