If you love liberty, vote NO on this smoking ban poll for business owners
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phill4paul
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And I believe that about some's it all up.
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donnay
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If you say so.So the tobacco lobby are the ones who tell the truth and it's the "evil big pharma" that are the liars. Okay. Non smokers live longer than smokers and the epidemiological data proves that but okay. I've heard it all. HIV doesn't cause AIDS but it's the drugs that people take to fight HIV which causes AIDS which is why people live longer after antiviral drugs became widely available....wait a minute...that doesn't make sense. But if this was a thread on HIV invariably someone would post "research" that "proved" this just as surely as you are posting anti-anti-smoking "research". Believe what you want. It's a free country. For now anyway.
I am not saying that. I am talking about the tobacco in of itself. I know the Big Tobacco companies have put additives and chemicals in their cigarettes--they are bad news, no doubt.
My grandmother smoked when she was 9 years old and lived to be 83. She smoked up to the day she died and did not die of smoke related issues.
Believe me, I know this shatters many peoples minds because we have been told over and over how bad tobacco is. Just take a look at some of the stuff I have posted. I have been researching this for a very long time. I know it blew my mind when I found these things out too. However, I know government doesn't care about your health--smoking bans are nothing more than another arm of control they have on us. Now you can say Big Tobacco was in cahoots with government and I will agree with you. But tobacco as a whole, is right there in the same league as marijuana. I am not asking you to trust me, just read the independent studies I have posted, and if you still come to the same conclusions then so be it, but I am pretty sure you won't.
Did you know tobacco is loaded with B-17? Do you know what B-17 does? It kills cancer.
Tod
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Forcing someone to pay for a hospital at the point of a gun is a decidedly unlibertarian act, and that is what a public hospital is.
Tod
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Clearly you have lost all connection to reality, so I'll bow out at this point. Have a good afternoon!
phill4paul
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We've had the smoking ban in Scotland since 2006 and its got its pro's and cons.... Speaking as a smoker i don't mind it so much, it makes going to restaurants and bars a cleaner and much nicer experience for a start. Its good to go for a night out and not come home stinking of smoke.
Lishy
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As much as I want smoking banned (And I'm a hypocrite because I LIKE the smoking bans in Canada...) Shouldn't private businesses be able to choose?
I mean, even where smoking is allowed here, I don't see many people smoking. I think there's a decline in general, and we don't need iron bars anymore.
I mean, even where smoking is allowed here, I don't see many people smoking. I think there's a decline in general, and we don't need iron bars anymore.
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Smoking in the public sphere is not an exercise of liberty. One of the principles of liberty is that my rights end where yours begin. If smoking in confined quarters with others did not affect (sometimes profoundly) others around you, then you would have an argument. But the fact is that your smoke is toxic to those around you, and you do not have the right to intentionally expose others to the toxic contaminants in public places that they need to go. I say this as a former smoker, before I developed a severe allergy to smoke that now causes me to break out in hives whenever I am in the proximity of smoke for any extended period of time (I suppose according to the previous poster I should have just smoked more). Now that I am a parent, I also do not prefer my children to be in an environment where smoking seems like a socially acceptable choice.
Like anything it is a balancing act--you do have the freedom to put whatever you want in your body, but the exercise of your freedom also has unwanted physical and social consequences to others. I don't have a problem with banning smoking in places where people have to go or are in close quarters, such as public buildings, stores, theaters, and some kinds of restaurants. I do think, however, that the smoking ban goes to far (at least where I live in California) in that it prevents people from allowing smoking in businesses that WANT to cater to smokers. For example, when I smoked, I would go to a cigar bar where they couldn't allow liquor even though their very purpose was to be a cigar bar. They would have people purchase drinks from the bar next door and then bring them in because food and drink couldn't be sold in the same establishment. That, to me, is an absurd limitation of freedom.
Like anything it is a balancing act--you do have the freedom to put whatever you want in your body, but the exercise of your freedom also has unwanted physical and social consequences to others. I don't have a problem with banning smoking in places where people have to go or are in close quarters, such as public buildings, stores, theaters, and some kinds of restaurants. I do think, however, that the smoking ban goes to far (at least where I live in California) in that it prevents people from allowing smoking in businesses that WANT to cater to smokers. For example, when I smoked, I would go to a cigar bar where they couldn't allow liquor even though their very purpose was to be a cigar bar. They would have people purchase drinks from the bar next door and then bring them in because food and drink couldn't be sold in the same establishment. That, to me, is an absurd limitation of freedom.
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phill4paul
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And to the smoker that chooses to have a smoke WITH his draught? What of him? Shouldn't he and others of his belief also get a spot to dine or celebrate in?
Lishy
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This is somewhat my view.
We have to keep in mind the liberties and health freedoms of others. Though, banning smoking in bars really is stupid in my opinion... Shouldn't bars be, you know.. Where we go to get wasted?
I've never had a Cigar before (But want to try one since I hear it's much less dangerous to my asthma than Cigarettes), and I think once I started smoking, it'd be dumb if I cannot do so in a bar..
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donnay
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Throughout history smoking bans and prohibitions introduced by despots and totalitarian regimes have come and gone. The most recent in Europe prior to the introduction of Ireland's repressive smoking legislation were the anti smoking laws of the Third Reich, introduced by the Nazi's during their brief but devastating regime in Germany.
Despite some harsh punishments throughout the decades for those disobeying smoking bans including death, smoking and smokers have continued to thrive. Below are some of the failed smoking bans and prohibitions introduced throughout the ages including the proliferation of bans revoked after the failure of prohibition in America.
1575: Mexico:
The first recorded passing of legislation prohibiting the use of Tobacco occurs when the Roman Catholic Church passes a law which prohibits smoking in any place of worship throughout the Spanish Colonies
1600s: World-wide
Popes ban smoking in holy places and all places of worship. Pope Urban VIII (1623-44) threatens excommunication for those who smoke or take snuff in holy places.
1612: China
Royal decree forbids the use and cultivation of tobacco
1617: Mongolia
Mongolian Emperor prohibits the use of tobacco. People breaking the law face the death penalty.
1620: Japan
bans the use of tobacco
1632: America
The first recorded smoking ban in America occurs when Massachusetts introduces a ban on smoking in public places
1633: Turkey:
Sultan Murad IV bans smoking and as many as 18 people a day are executed for breaking his law.
1634: Russia
Czar Alexis bans smoking. Those found guilty of a first offence risk whipping, a slit nose, and exile to Siberia. Those found guilty of a second offence face execution.
1634: Greece
The Greek Church bans the use of tobacco claiming tobacco smoke was responsible for intoxicating Noah.
1638: China
The use and supply of tobacco is made a crime punishable by decapitation for those convicted
1639: America
Governor Kieft of New Amsterdam beats Bloomberg by hundreds of years and bans smoking in New Amsterdam later to become New York.
1640: Bhutan
The founder of modern Bhutan, Shabdrung Ngawang Namgyal introduces that countries first smoking ban outlawing the use of tobacco in government buildings.
1647: America
People are only allowed to smoke once a day and public smoking is prohibited in Connecticut
1650: Italy
Pope Innocent X's issues a decree against smoking in St Peter's, Rome
1657: Switzerland
Smoking prohibition introduced throughout Switzerland
1674: Russia
Death penalty introduced for the crime of smoking.
1683: America
First laws in America passed prohibiting smoking outdoors in Massachusetts. Philadelphia follows suit introducing fines for offenders.
1693: England
First recorded ban in England introduced prohibiting smoking in certain areas of the chambers of parliament
* Smoking bans and prohibitions became rare during the 18th and 19th century. Trade in tobacco became an important source of revenue for monarchs and leaders and tobacco bans were revoked. Even the Pope not to be left out opened a tobacco factory in 1779.
1719: France
Smoking is banned with the exception of a number of provinces.
1818: USA
Smoking is banned on the streets of Lancaster, Pennsylvania. The mayor is fined when he becomes the first man to break the law.
1840: USA
Smoking is banned in Boston
1893: USA
Washington State introduces legislation banning the sale and consumption of cigarettes
1898: USA
Total ban on cigarettes in the state of Tennessee
1900: USA
The sale of cigarettes is now outlawed in the states of Washington, Iowa, Tennessee and North Dakota
1904: USA
A women is sent to jail for 30 days by a New York judge for smoking in front of her children.
1905: USA
Indiana introduces a total cigarette ban
1907: USA
Washington passes legislation banning the manufacture, sale, exchange or giving away cigarettes, cigarette paper or wrappers
1914: USA
Smoking banned in the US Senate
1922: USA
15 States now have laws banning the sale, manufacture, possession and use of cigarettes
Hitler was a fervent anti smoker and a crusader for the anti-smoking cause. He personally funded research into the dangers of smoking and little wonder those results given the nature of his regime tended to support his assertions that smoking was an evil the Aryan race must be rid of. Many of the studies carried out during the Third Reich are the basis for the arguments put forward today by those seeking the imposition of repressive smoking bans.
Hitler once stated that tobacco was "the wrath of the Red Man against the White Man" Under the Nazi's the Bureau Against the Dangers of Alcohol and Tobacco was established in 1939 followed in 1942 by the Institute for the Struggle against the dangers of Tobacco. Nazi's were the first to coin the term "passive smoking"
Under the Nazi regime the German people had imposed on them the most comprehensive set of tobacco regulations and restrictions seen in any modern nation to that date. Hitler himself took particular interest in this area often personally overseeing the drafting and implementation of anti smoking policy.
Bans And Restrictions in Nazi Germany
* The Luftwaffe banned smoking in 1938.
* The German Post office introduced.it's own ban
* Smoking was barred in many workplaces, government offices, hospitals,and rest homes.
* The NSDAP (National sozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei) announced a ban on smoking in its offices in 1939
* SS chief Heinrich Himmler announced a smoking ban for all uniformed police and SS officers while on duty in 1939
* Hermann Goering's bans soldiers from smoking on the streets, on marches, and while taking rest periods.
* Sixty of Germany's largest cities banned smoking on street cars in 1941.
* Smoking was banned in air raid shelters. Some provided separate rooms for smokers
* Tobacco coupons were denied to any woman who was pregnant
* Blanket smoking bans were introduced in many cafes, bars and restaurants
* Women below the age of 25 were banned from smoking
* Restaurants and cafes were barred from selling cigarettes to all female customers
* In July 1943 it became illegal for anyone under the age of 18 to smoke in public.
* Smoking was banned on all German city trains and buses in 1944. This initiative coming from Hitler himself,who was worried about exposure of young female conductors to tobacco smoke.
1973: America
Arizona becomes the first state in the current wave of smoking bans to pass a comprehensive law restricting smoking in public places.
http://laura-knight-jadczyk.blogspot.com/2007/08/lets-all-light-up.html
Despite some harsh punishments throughout the decades for those disobeying smoking bans including death, smoking and smokers have continued to thrive. Below are some of the failed smoking bans and prohibitions introduced throughout the ages including the proliferation of bans revoked after the failure of prohibition in America.
1575: Mexico:
The first recorded passing of legislation prohibiting the use of Tobacco occurs when the Roman Catholic Church passes a law which prohibits smoking in any place of worship throughout the Spanish Colonies
1600s: World-wide
Popes ban smoking in holy places and all places of worship. Pope Urban VIII (1623-44) threatens excommunication for those who smoke or take snuff in holy places.
1612: China
Royal decree forbids the use and cultivation of tobacco
1617: Mongolia
Mongolian Emperor prohibits the use of tobacco. People breaking the law face the death penalty.
1620: Japan
bans the use of tobacco
1632: America
The first recorded smoking ban in America occurs when Massachusetts introduces a ban on smoking in public places
1633: Turkey:
Sultan Murad IV bans smoking and as many as 18 people a day are executed for breaking his law.
1634: Russia
Czar Alexis bans smoking. Those found guilty of a first offence risk whipping, a slit nose, and exile to Siberia. Those found guilty of a second offence face execution.
1634: Greece
The Greek Church bans the use of tobacco claiming tobacco smoke was responsible for intoxicating Noah.
1638: China
The use and supply of tobacco is made a crime punishable by decapitation for those convicted
1639: America
Governor Kieft of New Amsterdam beats Bloomberg by hundreds of years and bans smoking in New Amsterdam later to become New York.
1640: Bhutan
The founder of modern Bhutan, Shabdrung Ngawang Namgyal introduces that countries first smoking ban outlawing the use of tobacco in government buildings.
1647: America
People are only allowed to smoke once a day and public smoking is prohibited in Connecticut
1650: Italy
Pope Innocent X's issues a decree against smoking in St Peter's, Rome
1657: Switzerland
Smoking prohibition introduced throughout Switzerland
1674: Russia
Death penalty introduced for the crime of smoking.
1683: America
First laws in America passed prohibiting smoking outdoors in Massachusetts. Philadelphia follows suit introducing fines for offenders.
1693: England
First recorded ban in England introduced prohibiting smoking in certain areas of the chambers of parliament
* Smoking bans and prohibitions became rare during the 18th and 19th century. Trade in tobacco became an important source of revenue for monarchs and leaders and tobacco bans were revoked. Even the Pope not to be left out opened a tobacco factory in 1779.
1719: France
Smoking is banned with the exception of a number of provinces.
1818: USA
Smoking is banned on the streets of Lancaster, Pennsylvania. The mayor is fined when he becomes the first man to break the law.
1840: USA
Smoking is banned in Boston
1893: USA
Washington State introduces legislation banning the sale and consumption of cigarettes
1898: USA
Total ban on cigarettes in the state of Tennessee
1900: USA
The sale of cigarettes is now outlawed in the states of Washington, Iowa, Tennessee and North Dakota
1904: USA
A women is sent to jail for 30 days by a New York judge for smoking in front of her children.
1905: USA
Indiana introduces a total cigarette ban
1907: USA
Washington passes legislation banning the manufacture, sale, exchange or giving away cigarettes, cigarette paper or wrappers
1914: USA
Smoking banned in the US Senate
1922: USA
15 States now have laws banning the sale, manufacture, possession and use of cigarettes
Hitler was a fervent anti smoker and a crusader for the anti-smoking cause. He personally funded research into the dangers of smoking and little wonder those results given the nature of his regime tended to support his assertions that smoking was an evil the Aryan race must be rid of. Many of the studies carried out during the Third Reich are the basis for the arguments put forward today by those seeking the imposition of repressive smoking bans.
Hitler once stated that tobacco was "the wrath of the Red Man against the White Man" Under the Nazi's the Bureau Against the Dangers of Alcohol and Tobacco was established in 1939 followed in 1942 by the Institute for the Struggle against the dangers of Tobacco. Nazi's were the first to coin the term "passive smoking"
Under the Nazi regime the German people had imposed on them the most comprehensive set of tobacco regulations and restrictions seen in any modern nation to that date. Hitler himself took particular interest in this area often personally overseeing the drafting and implementation of anti smoking policy.
Bans And Restrictions in Nazi Germany
* The Luftwaffe banned smoking in 1938.
* The German Post office introduced.it's own ban
* Smoking was barred in many workplaces, government offices, hospitals,and rest homes.
* The NSDAP (National sozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei) announced a ban on smoking in its offices in 1939
* SS chief Heinrich Himmler announced a smoking ban for all uniformed police and SS officers while on duty in 1939
* Hermann Goering's bans soldiers from smoking on the streets, on marches, and while taking rest periods.
* Sixty of Germany's largest cities banned smoking on street cars in 1941.
* Smoking was banned in air raid shelters. Some provided separate rooms for smokers
* Tobacco coupons were denied to any woman who was pregnant
* Blanket smoking bans were introduced in many cafes, bars and restaurants
* Women below the age of 25 were banned from smoking
* Restaurants and cafes were barred from selling cigarettes to all female customers
* In July 1943 it became illegal for anyone under the age of 18 to smoke in public.
* Smoking was banned on all German city trains and buses in 1944. This initiative coming from Hitler himself,who was worried about exposure of young female conductors to tobacco smoke.
1973: America
Arizona becomes the first state in the current wave of smoking bans to pass a comprehensive law restricting smoking in public places.
http://laura-knight-jadczyk.blogspot.com/2007/08/lets-all-light-up.html
dannno
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What if instead a few restaurants and bars became non-smoking, and the people who wanted to go out for a night and come home not stinking of tobacco smoke went to those establishments and the people who wanted to smoke went to those establishments that allowed it?
Were there any such establishments? Is it possible that there were laws prohibiting restaurants or bars from being completely smoke free?
phill4paul
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The truth is the free-market WAS providing the resolve to the matter. Eating and drinking establishments WERE opened with the express intent of catering to non-smokers. And they were taking business AWAY from the major chains that knew they were losing business but still wanted the non-smokers without giving up smokers.
Instant fix for the big chains. Ban smoking. The small independents went out of business and the big chains got the non-smokers back.
The Restaurant Associations were BEHIND the smoking bans. For the sole purpose of retaining their clientele against a niche market.
So all those that applaud the smoking bans...congratulations. On killing a free market.
Instant fix for the big chains. Ban smoking. The small independents went out of business and the big chains got the non-smokers back.
The Restaurant Associations were BEHIND the smoking bans. For the sole purpose of retaining their clientele against a niche market.
So all those that applaud the smoking bans...congratulations. On killing a free market.
dannno
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Cigars are less dangerous to your asthma because you don't inhale the smoke, but you still get some depending on your technique and you will still get the second hand smoke.
If you're going to smoke something, find some high quality cannabis and smoke it out of a water filtered bong. It tastes better and feels WAYY better, and it will help relieve your asthma. It might make your lungs burn for a short time if you take too big of a hit, but you will then start to feel your lungs relax and you will feel quite relieved.
Danke
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phill4paul
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I was asthmatic as a child. At a young age even had to endure being placed upside down on an sloped ironing board for an hour a day. I know, I know, it was what the doctor ordered. LOL. My asthma cleared up the same time as I started smoking tobacco.
Correlation does not equal causation. I'm just saying.
donnay
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I have an inverter table to do that now! LOL! I don't have asthma but it is great to put your spinal fluid back in the right places.
Nevertheless, have many people looked at the connection between vaccines and asthma?
Vaccination Doubles Asthma Incidence
http://www.whale.to/vaccine/incidence_of_pneumonia.html
EARLIER VACCINATION CAUSES ASTHMA
http://www.whale.to/vaccine/blaxill1.html
The culprit behind asthma and allergies: vaccination
http://www.whale.to/vaccines/hancock1.html
A vaccine given to babies could increase the risk of childhood asthma
http://www.whale.to/vaccine/vaxasthma.html
Flu Vaccination Exacerbates Asthma
http://www.whale.to/drugs/flu_vacc.html
The smoke-free people are arguing "third hand smoke" now. (Google it, you won't believe it.)
I look at this smoke-free violation of private property rights the same as I view a lot of the green agenda.
Should we guard against pollution and protect the earth? Sure we should, but we can do it within the Constitution
and don't have to violate private property rights in the process.
It's what Dr. Paul meant when he said the environmentalists use the green movement to push their (my words) a socialist, one world government agenda.
I look at this smoke-free violation of private property rights the same as I view a lot of the green agenda.
Should we guard against pollution and protect the earth? Sure we should, but we can do it within the Constitution
and don't have to violate private property rights in the process.
It's what Dr. Paul meant when he said the environmentalists use the green movement to push their (my words) a socialist, one world government agenda.
Erm.. That would be the sensible thing to do... don't get me wrong im a smoker myself and if your smoker you'll understand how pleasurable it is to be drinking your favourite tipple while enjoying a smoke of your chosen brand of cigarette, but we also have laws against smoking in the work place too.. Since bars and restaurants are places of work then that option is out too im afraid...
Hell this is how bad it is.. Say your a self employed van driver or w/e and your workplace is your van or other vehicle, your BANNED from smoking in your own van/car/truck etc... !!!
Here's another one:
Your in your home and your sat on the sofa watching a movie and having a smoke when some sort of domestic emergency happens, lets assume a pipe bursts and you need a plumber. You are suppose to provide a smoke free working envoiroment for said plumber.. This essentially means that you can't smoke in your own home for 1 hour before he/she arrives (cus thats the time deemed that the smoke will take to clear) and then until the jobs complete and the plumber leaves..
What we have to understand and realise is that the elites who run our nations have chosen socialism as their preffered method of control...
Found this most recent smoking nazi propaganda item, played on our nightly news show yesterday.. Laugh at us ! lol
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-17282954
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