If we want your money, we’ll take your money.

[CCTelander]

Brave, but sadly too little too late.

I'd prefer The Battle of Athens nationwide instead.

I was actually thinking more of the extreme denial that they allowed to put them in such desperate straits. It's an object lesson we could all learn a great deal from.

 

[fisharmor]

I also never thought state abductions of children were a widespread problem, until I was fighting off a felony charge to my wife, and entertaining visits from CPS officials, because my 6 year old daughter walked around our block with a friend without our knowledge.

Euphemia, you are playing with fire. Don't come here trying to convince people who have lived through similar abuses that they are rare.
Take it from someone who has lived through this: you'll be talking to some ex-soldiers who had no problem spending years murdering children based on nothing more than the fact that someone with a shiny collar told them to.
Your money is not something they're going to suddenly take a moral stand on.

 

[Ender]

Yes, they do, all the time, I've spent the better part of ten years on this site documenting it, day in and day out.

All for nothing, of course...even among "us", nobody cares.

I care.

 

[euphemia]

I care. It is not a problem I have ever faced. It's not a problem anyone I know has ever faced.

Let me ask you: What have you all done this week about an issue of importance to you? Did you write a letter or make a phone call? If not, then preaching to the choir here really does not help. The unrestrained anger and venom has not resolved a single thing, and it is the very reason why people outside the liberty movement do not listen to anything coming from within. It's emotion. It doesn't help the ones of us who are calling and writing letters, ether.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

It's a three for one. Three Amendments from the Bill of Rights violated in a single action by government.

Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Amendment V

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use without just compensation.

Amendment VIII

Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

 

[Origanalist]

I care. It is not a problem I have ever faced. It's not a problem anyone I know has ever faced.

Let me ask you: What have you all done this week about an issue of importance to you? Did you write a letter or make a phone call? If not, then preaching to the choir here really does not help. The unrestrained anger and venom has not resolved a single thing, and it is the very reason why people outside the liberty movement do not listen to anything coming from within. It's emotion. It doesn't help the ones of us who are calling and writing letters, ether.

Sure, you care. But since it's only drug dealers it's happening to what's the big deal, right?

 

[donnay]

 

[CCTelander]

Sure, you care. But since it's only drug dealers it's happening to what's the big deal, right?

I know you know better but just in case anyone actually believes it's "only drug dealers" I wanted to clarify. Usually it goes more like this:

Cop seizes sizeable amount of cash and often other property (cars, motorcycles, homes, etc.) based on the reasoning, "This guy had a sizeable amount of cash. The ONLY logical reason for that is that he's a drug dealer." Note that in many, MANY cases the ONLY evidence of "drug dealing" is the possession of the cash.

In many, MANY cases no charges are ever filed against the individual. Charges are ALWAYS filed against the property, as in U.S. vs (whatever property is seized). This is done as a purely legal maneuver intended to circumvent 4th and 5th Amendment protections. It is completely illegitimate but has been upheld routinely by the courts.

The victim now must spend tens of thousands of dollars suing the government and must prove that the seized property was acquired lawfully to recover anything. Often the cost equals or exceeds the amount of property seized, and it's difficult even for completely innocent victims to prove the property was not acquired, even in part, from tainted assets. Much of the time the victim simply can't overcome these obstacles and just loses their property.

The property is divided among the agencies involved in the seizure. It doesn't go into a general fund but straight into the coffers of the thieves who stole it in the first place.

Justice in AmeriKa.

ETA: When I typed that "charges" were filed against the property that's not completely accurate. I was in a hurry and on my phone so used shorthand but realized later it would probably be misconstrued. Crime nal charges are not filed against the property. They actually file a civil complaint against the property, effectively suing inanimate objects. How this is possible is never explained, nor is it likely to be.

Just wanted to clarify that point.

 

[CCTelander]

The guy in the above article was convicted of nothing and still $46,000 is in police custody.

Exactly. No conviction, or even the filing of formal charges is required to seize assets. Only an unsubstantiated accusation, often of the vaguest most ambiguous character.

 

[Anti Federalist]

I care. It is not a problem I have ever faced. It's not a problem anyone I know has ever faced.

Let me ask you: What have you all done this week about an issue of importance to you? Did you write a letter or make a phone call? If not, then preaching to the choir here really does not help. The unrestrained anger and venom has not resolved a single thing, and it is the very reason why people outside the liberty movement do not listen to anything coming from within. It's emotion. It doesn't help the ones of us who are calling and writing letters, ether.

Yes, I have...a number of times as a matter of fact, if email counts.

Over the years I have:

Voted.

Donated.

Lectured.

Worked.

Joined.

Protested.

Marched.

Got arrested.

Spent tens of thousands on advertising, activism and related activities.

Over a span of an entire adult lifetime.

All for somebody to come along and complain that I "have not done enough" and am "too emotional" because I am furious at the idea that cops can seize your property without so much as single criminal charge being filed, and furious at the idea that anybody, anywhere, can somehow think this is OK, because it didn't happen to them.

And people wonder why I am cynical, and have given up, and have a bad attitude...FFS.

 

[phill4paul]

Yes, I have...a number of times as a matter of fact, if email counts.

Over the years I have:

Voted.

Donated.

Lectured.

Worked.

Joined.

Protested.

Marched.

Got arrested.

Spent tens of thousands on advertising, activism and related activities.

Over a span of an entire adult lifetime.

All for somebody to come along and complain that I "have not done enough" and am "too emotional" because I am furious at the idea that cops can seize your property without so much as single criminal charge being filed, and furious at the idea that anybody, anywhere, can somehow think this is OK, because it didn't happen to them.

And people wonder why I am cynical, and have given up, and have a bad attitude...FFS.

I'd imagine all that worked as well for you as it did for me.

 

[acptulsa]

Yes, I have...a number of times as a matter of fact, if email counts.

Over the years I have:

Voted.

Donated.

Lectured.

Worked.

Joined.

Protested.

Marched.

Got arrested.

Spent tens of thousands on advertising, activism and related activities.

Over a span of an entire adult lifetime.

All for somebody to come along and complain that I "have not done enough" and am "too emotional" because I am furious at the idea that cops can seize your property without so much as single criminal charge being filed, and furious at the idea that anybody, anywhere, can somehow think this is OK, because it didn't happen to them.

And people wonder why I am cynical, and have given up, and have a bad attitude...FFS.

What? You haven't been called crazy for wanting to breathe free--and wanting the person who called you crazy to breathe free too?

How did you avoid that...?

 

[Anti Federalist]

I'd imagine all that worked as well for you as it did for me.

Yep...here we are, in a modern day East Germany, under total surveillance and subject to financial ruin at the wave of a King's man's hand.

We have our guns, for little while longer anyway, thank Christ for that I suppose, since thing would probably be much worse by had not the the threat been there.

But we lack the stones to use them in the way in which it was intended.

So it will only be a matter of time before that right is gone.

And then you turn out the lights.

Game over.

 

[Anti Federalist]

What? You haven't been called crazy for wanting to breathe free--and wanting the person who called you crazy to breathe free too?

How did you avoid that...?

I didn't...been called nuts numerous times.

Two instances stand out in my mind:

One was when, years ago, I told people that the very minor restrictions on smoking (smoking or non smoking sections that sort of thing) would lead to bans on smoking in your home, in your car, prohibitive taxation, and outright prohibition.

The second, also years ago, when I told people that very unobtrusive seat belt laws would result in primary enforcement, road blocks, massive fines and loss of license.

"Oh you're crazy...paranoid. That will never happen"

 

[phill4paul]

Yep...here we are, in a modern day East Germany, under total surveillance and subject to financial ruin at the wave of a King's man's hand.

We have our guns, for little while longer anyway, thank Christ for that I suppose, since thing would probably be much worse by had not the the threat been there.

But we lack the stones to use them in the way in which it was intended.

So it will only be a matter of time before that right is gone.

And then you turn out the lights.

Game over.

People called Kokesh crazy. I think an armed march to Washington DC was the sanest thing I've heard in quite a long while. And I'd still be up for it.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

I track currency through Where's George? There are thousands of us, and we are generally cash spenders. Many of us have been doing this for a long time. Some people have over a million bills entered. I have never heard of one incident where a Georger has had money confiscated by government. I have seen baggage screeners do a double-take when my cash bundles pass across their screens, but nobody has ever asked a single question.

I have no problem explaining why I carry cash. 1. I have a hobby to support. 2. If someone steals my cash, that's all they get. If they steal me debit card, they steal access to my whole life.

You can dispute charges and cancel the card, though. When cash is gone, it's gone. (They won't say so, but that's one reason cops want it.)

 

[heavenlyboy34]

Yes, I have...a number of times as a matter of fact, if email counts.

Over the years I have:

Voted.

Donated.

Lectured.

Worked.

Joined.

Protested.

Marched.

Got arrested.

Spent tens of thousands on advertising, activism and related activities.

Over a span of an entire adult lifetime.

All for somebody to come along and complain that I "have not done enough" and am "too emotional" because I am furious at the idea that cops can seize your property without so much as single criminal charge being filed, and furious at the idea that anybody, anywhere, can somehow think this is OK, because it didn't happen to them.

And people wonder why I am cynical, and have given up, and have a bad attitude...FFS.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Anti Federalist again.

They never cared about my calls or letters when I was actively part of the System(TM) either. Fuck em.

 

[donnay]

Yes, I have...a number of times as a matter of fact, if email counts.

Over the years I have:

Voted.

Donated.

Lectured.

Worked.

Joined.

Protested.

Marched.

Got arrested.

Spent tens of thousands on advertising, activism and related activities.

Over a span of an entire adult lifetime.

All for somebody to come along and complain that I "have not done enough" and am "too emotional" because I am furious at the idea that cops can seize your property without so much as single criminal charge being filed, and furious at the idea that anybody, anywhere, can somehow think this is OK, because it didn't happen to them.

And people wonder why I am cynical, and have given up, and have a bad attitude...FFS.

Sorry couldn't resist...

 

[acptulsa]

Sorry couldn't resist...

Are you really?

 

[donnay]

Are you really?

Am I really what?