If we could buy 1000 acres or more, who would join us?

Who is that guy in TX that has a compound and is in a standoff with the government (state or feds?) There was a thread but I can't think of enough details to find it...
 
Tod said:
Who is that guy in TX that has a compound and is in a standoff with the government (state or feds?) There was a thread but I can't think of enough details to find it...
Click to expand...

Is it the guy who's been on his compound for a decade or so? I forgot his name, but I believe it's a standoff about property taxes.
 
A number of issues get all rolled together and it is political (political as in politics is what happens when 3 or more people share a common objective).

One issue is ownership of the land and a choice gets made from essentially 3 possibilities (A) each participant buys part of the community land area and the parcel is surveyed, and land title held by each of the participating individuals (B) central purchase of a parcel, and sell of portions of the parcel to individuals (C) corporate ownership of the parcel.

(A) requires that each participant have sufficient capital at the same time to purchase , a method of allocating lots in the larger parcel to individuals [in any given tract of land, some places are more desirable than others], and a seller who will sell the exact amount of acreage needed. The community can only grow if adjacent land is available, or existing community members subdivide their allocations. Any individual can sell owned land at any time to anyone else - just like any area now - only the initial buy creates the community.

(B) requires additional capital to set up the "land bank" for future sale of land as the community grows, or individuals want to buy more land. If you had access to that additional capital for the land bank, you are already a developer and you control the community by your willingness to sell.

(C) Allows for capital to be leveraged by forming an entity thet make the purchase and allow for economy of scale. Critical issue here is protecting the rights of the individuals, in this case by owning stock in the entity that owns the land and is liable for the taxes and again leverages capital for common infrastructure. This structure can allow for subsequent growth by additional share sales to pay off the loan on the land, pay taxes, and provide capital for expansion. A less well managed version (Granny Warriors) has individuals renting land they do not own in a community in which the renter has no influence in governance (like being a renter in a condo run by a condo association).

After SHTF, stuff like taxing entities and government regulation play a minor if any role at all in the way the community runs, but until SHTF, there will be taxes to pay, and the possibility of some regulatory environment on things like water, electrical, and construction - thus location chosen plays a role in community development. Some states are more free than others at the stae and county regulatory level. I covered Texas in the other thread in more detail, but summary is that Texas runs its own electric grid, so lower probability of something happening elsewhere cutting electric until self sufficient, has very low land tax on "agricultural use" land - parcels owned by individuals that don't keep the agricultural tax rate are taxed at market use value, which will be much more that the usual $5 per acre per year for agricultural (There is a better change of keeping a large corporate owned parcel agricultural use even with a bunch of structures on it (being "hunting lodges") than a number of 1 to 5 acre parcels each individually owned with a house. As sufficient capital is raised to pay off the land loan, the corporation could trade stock for land for those who want individual ownership.

In model (C) the corporate charter and bylaws are key to the protection of individual rights. Shareholders have the right to use the corporate land, and for every X number of shares owned, may have exclusive use of an amount of corporately owned land. For those who want to sell out, the corporation has right of first refusal on share sales, and existing shareholders have the next option. The intention is to keep the community able to prevent "hostile takeover" by persons unknown to existing community members.

There are some other considerations - creating a town with a charter would be a defensive measure to prevent annexation or fight off water and electric districts from incorporating the community as a service area.
 
Hey guys, I don't know if you saw my post from a while back on the Open Source Ecology project. (here)

It seems like a perfect fit for the plans you've been kicking about.

Basically nuclear physicist quit his job to farm and discovered that to succeed in his off the grid lifestyle he would need hardware and machinery that he could not afford. He decided to build these tools at a fraction of the cost and publish everything in an open source style for every one to use and build upon. Its grow into a worldwide collaboration.

It is perfect for neighbors to use because they can all help finance and build these things and share the results.

Please take the time to check out this project, I'm certain you while be exited if you're a DIYer as I am.

http://opensourceecology.org/





 
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my husband has some sort of a fringe connection with that org.. I think they're the ones that wanted us to move to Arkansas to be a hands on part of it a couple years ago.. Arkansas.. no

The idea of building our own machinery is right up his alley though. He's been accumulating tools to build better tools.. welding machine.. lathes (wood and metal) and I think there's a plasma cutter coming soon too

one of his end goal machines is a tractor that he can drive being an amputee (leg) with either his right leg only (prosthetic ankle doesn't bend) or his hands that fits his body height.
 
opal said:
my husband has some sort of a fringe connection with that org.. I think they're the ones that wanted us to move to Arkansas to be a hands on part of it a couple years ago.. Arkansas.. no

The idea of building our own machinery is right up his alley though. He's been accumulating tools to build better tools.. welding machine.. lathes (wood and metal) and I think there's a plasma cutter coming soon too

one of his end goal machines is a tractor that he can drive being an amputee (leg) with either his right leg only (prosthetic ankle doesn't bend) or his hands that fits his body height.
Click to expand...

Seems like the full sized tractor they've designed just requires one to stand on the back while using hand controls
 
Pericles said:
A number of issues get all rolled together and it is political (political as in politics is what happens when 3 or more people share a common objective).

One issue is ownership of the land and a choice gets made from essentially 3 possibilities (A) each participant buys part of the community land area and the parcel is surveyed, and land title held by each of the participating individuals (B) central purchase of a parcel, and sell of portions of the parcel to individuals (C) corporate ownership of the parcel.

(A) requires that each participant have sufficient capital at the same time to purchase , a method of allocating lots in the larger parcel to individuals [in any given tract of land, some places are more desirable than others], and a seller who will sell the exact amount of acreage needed. The community can only grow if adjacent land is available, or existing community members subdivide their allocations. Any individual can sell owned land at any time to anyone else - just like any area now - only the initial buy creates the community.

(B) requires additional capital to set up the "land bank" for future sale of land as the community grows, or individuals want to buy more land. If you had access to that additional capital for the land bank, you are already a developer and you control the community by your willingness to sell.

(C) Allows for capital to be leveraged by forming an entity thet make the purchase and allow for economy of scale. Critical issue here is protecting the rights of the individuals, in this case by owning stock in the entity that owns the land and is liable for the taxes and again leverages capital for common infrastructure. This structure can allow for subsequent growth by additional share sales to pay off the loan on the land, pay taxes, and provide capital for expansion. A less well managed version (Granny Warriors) has individuals renting land they do not own in a community in which the renter has no influence in governance (like being a renter in a condo run by a condo association).

After SHTF, stuff like taxing entities and government regulation play a minor if any role at all in the way the community runs, but until SHTF, there will be taxes to pay, and the possibility of some regulatory environment on things like water, electrical, and construction - thus location chosen plays a role in community development. Some states are more free than others at the stae and county regulatory level. I covered Texas in the other thread in more detail, but summary is that Texas runs its own electric grid, so lower probability of something happening elsewhere cutting electric until self sufficient, has very low land tax on "agricultural use" land - parcels owned by individuals that don't keep the agricultural tax rate are taxed at market use value, which will be much more that the usual $5 per acre per year for agricultural (There is a better change of keeping a large corporate owned parcel agricultural use even with a bunch of structures on it (being "hunting lodges") than a number of 1 to 5 acre parcels each individually owned with a house. As sufficient capital is raised to pay off the land loan, the corporation could trade stock for land for those who want individual ownership.

In model (C) the corporate charter and bylaws are key to the protection of individual rights. Shareholders have the right to use the corporate land, and for every X number of shares owned, may have exclusive use of an amount of corporately owned land. For those who want to sell out, the corporation has right of first refusal on share sales, and existing shareholders have the next option. The intention is to keep the community able to prevent "hostile takeover" by persons unknown to existing community members.

There are some other considerations - creating a town with a charter would be a defensive measure to prevent annexation or fight off water and electric districts from incorporating the community as a service area.
Click to expand...


Thanks for the info. Something to think about. Not sure how I feel about the whole corporation thing. What are the tax considerations? Would it be subject to state franchise tax if any of the land was income producing?
 
The Northbreather said:
Hey guys, I don't know if you saw my post from a while back on the Open Source Ecology project. (here)

It seems like a perfect fit for the plans you've been kicking about.

Basically nuclear physicist quit his job to farm and discovered that to succeed in his off the grid lifestyle he would need hardware and machinery that he could not afford. He decided to build these tools at a fraction of the cost and publish everything in an open source style for every one to use and build upon. Its grow into a worldwide collaboration.

It is perfect for neighbors to use because they can all help finance and build these things and share the results.

Please take the time to check out this project, I'm certain you while be exited if you're a DIYer as I am.

http://opensourceecology.org/





Click to expand...
The trouble with idea like this is these are basically experimental. I have lived this life and when you have to work days on the very machine that is absolutely essential to growing your food, planting and harvest season may pass you by. Survival lifestyles require very well managed time and spending months working on an experimental tractor can starve you.
 
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Deborah-

Put me on your list. I could offer child care, herbal knowledge, help supervise building projects, and help maintain grounds which would include gardening and animal care.
 
Carlybee said:
Thanks for the info. Something to think about. Not sure how I feel about the whole corporation thing. What are the tax considerations? Would it be subject to state franchise tax if any of the land was income producing?
Click to expand...

TX - no franchise tax until sales above $3million per year. The risk to the individual with a corporate ownership structure is if the corporation can't make the note or taxes - same as an individual. Once the corporation owns the land free and clear, it can subdivide and deed to the shareholders, or sell plots to raise additional capital for water or electric systems or expansion.

If you really are looking at a 1000 acre project, and you decent land for a steal at $1000 per acre you need $1million. You either have to get a large numebr of people to synchronize investment, have a fair amount of cash, or some method to tote the note on the land.
 
Touching base: Daughter Lynsay had emergency surgery (ectopic pregnancy). Her family is staying with us for now. I am still hobbling around on crutches but getting by. Things are settling in, so I'll be able to get online more often, hopefully. We're getting our ducks in a row. The decision has been made, we're leaving Cali, and would like to live with and near other like-minded individuals. Let's try and make this work.

'Talk' soon.
 
Depending on basic geography, except for the most intolerable of moral interventionists, localgov won't be so relevant on an integrous 1k acre community of liberty. If you are looking South Eastish the Cumberland Plateau offers significant SHTF protection through geography.
 
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