If Trump had declared Reagan "Founding Father of Al Qaeda", would he have won 2016 election?

[enhanced_deficit]

If Trump had declared Reagan "Founding Father of Al Qaeda", would he have won 2016 election?

If Trump had declared Reagan "Founding Father of Al Qaeda", would he have won 2016 election?

This came up in another foreign policy discussion but quite relevant for US Politics/Partisan Election Politics also.
Quote:
Clinton was also responsible like Obama, Bush in owning results of last 40 years failed policies but historians will assign biggest responsibility to infamous Prez Reagan who armed/funded original crop of Jihadi militants/foreign fighters in his strong dislike for socialist Russian infidels and started this mess (that 40 years later is still being cleaned up at huge human/financial costs) by cultivating violent extremist Islamic militant groups in Afghanistan and various neighboring Soviet states to weaken Russian power. If Trump had called Reagan "Founding Father of Al Qaeda" just when he was calling Obama "Founding Father of ISIS", he won't have won GOP nomination & 2016 election but historians will find the latter claim to be no more accurate than the former.


Donald Trump Accuses Obama of Being the 'Founder of ISIS'
Aug 11, 2016

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjRKSvk-p_k



Related

Was Reagan the worst President in US history?

 

[Occam's Banana]

Trump?

2016?

Who gives a shit?

 

[enhanced_deficit]

Those who forget history are bound to forget many other things...

Future often is rinse repeat of history... especially in politics.


Stunning sensitivity in some quarters about dissection and discussion of impact of Trump Politics/MAGAism barely 6 months after Trump left WH and America is still deeply in the middle of what unfolded during Trump Presidency is a phenomenon worth discussion in itself.

 

[69360]

How many more times are you going to recycle this stupid topic. Nobody agrees with you and nobody cares.

 

[enhanced_deficit]

How many more times are you going to recycle this stupid topic.

20th anniversary of 9/11 is approaching, there would be few headlines in MSM but such root/cause relationship analysis should be done every year at least if not more as it led to the "biggest blunder in US history" aka Iraqi Freedom War (impact of which is projected to last for many decades). All Prez elections since Bush-Cheney are direct products of this chapter in US history and could be for coming many decades.

 

[TheTexan]

20th anniversary of 9/11 is approaching, this analysis should be done everyyear if not more as it led to the "biggest blunder in US history" aka Iraqi Freedom War impact of which is projected to last for many decades. All Prez elections since Bush-Cheney are direct products of this chapter in US history and could be for coming many decades.

Assuming that 9/11 even happened. Were you there? Do you know someone was there?

It was pretty good CGI but still not believable. Still better than the shoddy CGI they tried for the moon landing.

 

[enhanced_deficit]

It was pretty good CGI but still not believable. Still better than the shoddy CGI they tried for the moon landing.

Did Iraq war happen?

Did 'Founding Fathering of ISIS in Syria' happen?

If yes, then review of claimed/reported/perceived catalysts should be very important, even more important if you are suggesting it was fakenews.

Main topic is partisan politics/election politics.


For last two years, $6T Trump-Biden led Operation Warp Speed is impacting America in a huge way, have you seen corona other than in media graphics?

If answer is no, would that make moot need for discussion of all the other American life altering events surrounding it and role of political leadership?

 

[Occam's Banana]

Those who forget history are bound to forget many other things...

Future often is rinse repeat of history... especially in politics.

Oh, that bromide again ...

“Those who don’t know history are doomed to repeat it.”
Edmund Burke

This one always irritates me (as does George Santayana's more famous paraphrase, "Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it"). The problem is that, as far as I can tell, most of those who do know (or remember) history go right ahead and repeat it, anyway.

I suspect that this is because many of them think that what they've learned makes them clever enough to get away with it this time ...

 

[enhanced_deficit]

Oh, that bromide again ...

Ok point taken.

2nd take:

If we don't learn from our past mistakes, others will.

 

[Occam's Banana]

Stunning sensitivity in some quarters about dissection and discussion of impact of Trump Politics/MAGAism barely 6 months after Trump left WH and America is still deeply in the middle of what unfolded during Trump Presidency is a phenomenon worth discussion in itself.

No. Not sensitivity. Just ennui.

 

[TheCount]

No

 

[Occam's Banana]

Ok point taken.

2nd take:

If we don't learn from our past mistakes, others will.

 

[Aratus]

Trump found out he can say what he damn well pleases and nearly all his followers let him say what he wants.

 

[Pauls' Revere]

20th anniversary of 9/11 is approaching, there would be few headlines in MSM but such root/cause relationship analysis should be done every year at least if not more as it led to the "biggest blunder in US history" aka Iraqi Freedom War (impact of which is projected to last for many decades). All Prez elections since Bush-Cheney are direct products of this chapter in US history and could be for coming many decades.

That's a slippery slope as you can connect the dots with hindsight and reach confirmation bias.

I blame the Communist Party which came to power in Afghanistan which ultimately assassinated a Russian, which ultimately lead to the Russian Invasion, which Ultimately lead to the USA involvement, which ultimately lead to Osama being trained by the CIA, which ultimately lead him angered about lack of US support, which ultimately he was butt hurt about not being selected to be the US Puppet in Afghanistan, which ultimately made him gather a guerilla army in caves, which ultimately lead to September 11th, which ultimately turns out to be a false flag event, which ultimately lead to Bush being re-elected and Iraq War, which ultimately elad to Desert Storm, which ultimately lead to Iraq Freedom, which ultimately got our first Black president!

And that is how Obama got elected.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet–Afghan_War
The foundations of the conflict were laid by the Saur Revolution, a 1978 coup wherein Afghanistan's communist party took power, initiating a series of radical modernization and land reforms throughout the country. These reforms were deeply unpopular among the more traditional rural population and established power structures.[56] The repressive nature of the "Democratic Republic",[57] which vigorously suppressed opposition and executed thousands of political prisoners, led to the rise of anti-government armed groups; by April 1979, large parts of the country were in open rebellion. [58] The communist party itself experienced deep internal rivalries between the Khalqists and Parchamites; in September 1979, People's Democratic Party General Secretary Nur Mohammad Taraki was assassinated under orders of the second-in-command, Hafizullah Amin, which soured relations with the Soviet Union. With fears rising that Amin was planning to switch sides to the United States,[59] the Soviet government, under leader Leonid Brezhnev, decided to deploy the 40th Army across the border on December 24, 1979.[60] Arriving in the capital Kabul, they staged a coup (Operation Storm-333),[61] killing General Secretary Amin and installing Soviet loyalist Babrak Karmal from the rival faction Parcham. [58] The Soviet invasion[nb 1] was based on the Brezhnev Doctrine.

 

[oyarde]

Well the founders would be Charlie Wilson , CIA and Jimmy Carter . Dems need to take credit where due ED.

 

[enhanced_deficit]

That's a slippery slope as you can connect the dots with hindsight and reach confirmation bias.

I blame the Communist Party which came to power in Afghanistan which ultimately assassinated a Russian, which ultimately lead to the Russian Invasion, which Ultimately lead to the USA involvement, which ultimately lead to Osama being trained by the CIA, which ultimately lead him angered about lack of US support..

And that is how Obama got elected.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet–Afghan_War
The foundations of the conflict were laid by the Saur Revolution, a 1978 coup wherein Afghanistan's communist party took power, initiating a series of radical modernization and land reforms throughout the country. These reforms were deeply unpopular among the more traditional rural population and established power structures.[56] The repressive nature of the "Democratic Republic",[57] which vigorously suppressed opposition and executed thousands of political prisoners, led to the rise of anti-government armed groups; by April 1979, large parts of the country were in open rebellion. [58] The communist party itself experienced deep internal rivalries between the Khalqists and Parchamites; in September 1979, People's Democratic Party General Secretary Nur Mohammad Taraki was assassinated under orders of the second-in-command, Hafizullah Amin, which soured relations with the Soviet Union. With fears rising that Amin was planning to switch sides to the United States,[59] the Soviet government, under leader Leonid Brezhnev, decided to deploy the 40th Army across the border on December 24, 1979.[60] Arriving in the capital Kabul, they staged a coup (Operation Storm-333),[61] killing General Secretary Amin and installing Soviet loyalist Babrak Karmal from the rival faction Parcham. [58] The Soviet invasion[nb 1] was based on the Brezhnev Doctrine.

This is good historic detail. I realize OP summary is is overly simplistic synopsis of complicated history of conflicts there. But primary focus in this case was role of selective outrage cultivation for political purposes:

"If Trump had called Reagan "Founding Father of Al Qaeda" just when he was calling Obama "Founding Father of ISIS", he won't have won GOP nomination & 2016 election but historians will find the latter claim to be no more accurate than the former."

Plenty of foreign actors to blame but we can only control our policies. Narrow focus in the context of US politics discussion would be US elected officials role and its contribution to future problems for US that were avoidable.


President Trump: Soviet Union "was right" to invade Afghanistan in 1979 because "terrorists were going into Russia"

Trump defends Soviet Union's 1979 invasion of Afghanistan

By Zachary Cohen, CNN
January 4, 2019

Sciutto fact-checks White House's border claim

Washington (CNN)During his freewheeling, 90-minute cabinet meeting Wednesday, President Donald Trump briefly argued that the Soviet Union "was right" to invade Afghanistan in 1979 because "terrorists were going into Russia," a head-scratching aside that was widely criticized as historically inaccurate.

"Russia used to be the Soviet Union. Afghanistan made it Russia because they went bankrupt fighting in Afghanistan. Russia. So you take a look at other countries. Pakistan is there. They should be fighting," Trump said.
"But Russia should be fighting. The reason Russia was in, in Afghanistan was because terrorists were going into Russia. They were right to be there. The problem is it was a tough fight. And literally they went bankrupt. They went into being called Russia again as opposed to the Soviet Union," he added.
The Wall Street Journal editorial board reacted strongly to Trump's comments in an op-ed Friday: "Right to be there? We cannot recall a more absurd misstatement of history by an American President. The Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan with three divisions in December 1979 to prop up a fellow communist government."


After refreshing my memory abiut this old news, I probably would have voted "not sure" in this poll.


Related

Did Trump just call Reagan "Founding Father of Al Qaeda" (indirectly)?

Reckless Putin: "US nurtured Al-Qaeda & Bin Laden, supported terrorists in Chechnya"

 

[Pauls' Revere]

"If Trump had called Reagan "Founding Father of Al Qaeda" just when he was calling Obama "Founding Father of ISIS", he won't have won GOP nomination & 2016 election but historians will find the latter claim to be no more accurate than the former."

But he didn't & he was. So why speak of what if's? What if he did say that and still got nominated? What if Obama called said Hilary is the Devil? What if Trump said Afghanistan was a waste of time?

What if ...

 

[jmdrake]

If Trump had declared Reagan "Founding Father of Al Qaeda", would he have won 2016 election?

This came up in another foreign policy discussion but quite relevant for US Politics/Partisan Election Politics also.
Quote:
Clinton was also responsible like Obama, Bush in owning results of last 40 years failed policies but historians will assign biggest responsibility to infamous Prez Reagan who armed/funded original crop of Jihadi militants/foreign fighters in his strong dislike for socialist Russian infidels and started this mess (that 40 years later is still being cleaned up at huge human/financial costs) by cultivating violent extremist Islamic militant groups in Afghanistan and various neighboring Soviet states to weaken Russian power. If Trump had called Reagan "Founding Father of Al Qaeda" just when he was calling Obama "Founding Father of ISIS", he won't have won GOP nomination & 2016 election but historians will find the latter claim to be no more accurate than the former.


Donald Trump Accuses Obama of Being the 'Founder of ISIS'
Aug 11, 2016

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjRKSvk-p_k



Related

Was Reagan the worst President in US history?

Actually funding of the mujahadeed began Jimmy Carter so....that wouldn't have been a true statement on Trump's part.



The evil man behind this scheme was Zbigniew Brezinski.



I'm not a fan of Reagan or Trump. But let's be honest here. Presidents don't actually run anything.

 

[jmdrake]

Well the founders would be Charlie Wilson , CIA and Jimmy Carter . Dems need to take credit where due ED.

True. And don't forget Zbigniew Brezinski. Mika's dad. And people wonder why she's so hateful?

 

[enhanced_deficit]

"If Trump had called Reagan "Founding Father of Al Qaeda" just when he was calling Obama "Founding Father of ISIS", he won't have won GOP nomination & 2016 election but historians will find the latter claim to be no more accurate than the former."

But he didn't & he was. So why speak of what if's? What if he did say that and still got nominated? What if Obama called said Hilary is the Devil? What if Trump said Afghanistan was a waste of time?

What if ...

I stand corrected, my memory got refreshed after reading old news in one of related thread posts, he sort of did say that indirectly during Trump-Putin bromance day:


President Trump: Soviet Union "was right" to invade Afghanistan in 1979 because "terrorists were going into Russia"

Trump defends Soviet Union's 1979 invasion of Afghanistan

By Zachary Cohen, CNN
January 4, 2019

Did Trump just call Reagan "Founding Father of Al Qaeda" (indirectly)?

Reckless Putin: "US nurtured Al-Qaeda & Bin Laden, supported terrorists in Chechnya"

Actually funding of the mujahadeed began Jimmy Carter so....that wouldn't have been a true statement on Trump's part.



The evil man behind this scheme was Zbigniew Brezinski.

Good point regarding Carter's role, Carter sowed the seeds and had started watering the plants, Reagan continued that and brought in the big fertilizer trucks to turn that land into a lush green forest of global jihad against soviet infidels.

I'm not a fan of Reagan or Trump. But let's be honest here. Presidents don't actually run anything.

True that ; Obama had as much role in founding fathering of ISIS in Syria as Reagan had in founding fathering of Al Qaeda in Afghanistan. In later part of his campaign, perhaps Trump deliberately obscured that aspect (coupled with his birther campaign) for political reasons or myabe he believed that the buck stops with the Prez.

"If Trump had called Reagan "Founding Father of Al Qaeda" just when he was calling Obama "Founding Father of ISIS", he won't have won GOP nomination & 2016 election but historians will find the latter claim to be no more accurate than the former."

If you agree with the key highlighted part, we're in agreement.



Incidentally, Reagan was also founding father of "MAGA" slogan. And in amazing display of bi-partisan harmony, Trump and Carter (on whose watch "terrorists" were going into Soviet States as Trump claimed in 2019) appeared pretty supportive of each other while Trump was calling Obama "founder of ISIS".