If the Supreme Court overturns "Obamacare" does this also overturn auto insurance?

Your insurance should not pay for anybody else. Your insurance should cover you and theirs should cover them. Now if it was negligence you have the right to sue them. If you think the value in paying insurance on something is greater than the cost to replace it should something go wrong then insurance is a good idea. Otherwise it's not.
 
Can't you show a certificate of bond or something, showing that you have enough money to cover the minimum amount required by your state?
 
Ever been hit by a non insured motorist? If you have, you would agree with mandated auto insurance.
People with no insurance have no assets and no real income, if they did they would carry insurance voluntarily to protect their assets..

Do I hate having to carry insurance? Yep!
Would I hate losing my house and cars and having my wages taken for the rest of my life leaving me at the poverty level? Yes, I would hate that more.

People are not responsible enough to carry appropriate insurance, so the state has to mandate it, or poor people wouldn't buy it.
 
Ever been hit by a non insured motorist? If you have, you would agree with mandated auto insurance.
People with no insurance have no assets and no real income, if they did they would carry insurance voluntarily to protect their assets..

Do I hate having to carry insurance? Yep!
Would I hate losing my house and cars and having my wages taken for the rest of my life leaving me at the poverty level? Yes, I would hate that more.

People are not responsible enough to carry appropriate insurance, so the state has to mandate it, or poor people wouldn't buy it.

Not to burst your bubble there, but if your argument is that it has to be mandated so people will carry it, how would the hypothetical where you are struck by an uninsured motorist ever come to pass? It is obvious that some folks aren't following the mandate at all.
 
Because driving and owning a car aren't mandatory, like Obamacare would be... It just means that if you're going to own a car, then you have to have insurance, to make sure that the victim in a car crash can be compensated.

Now I'm not big on laws that mandate perople's behavior and liberty by any means, but driving and owning a car aren't so much a right as a privilege and responsibility towards your fellow motorists. There are just too many costly wrecks that would otherwise place the tremendous cost onto the victim of the accident if they couldn't pay....

There are many laws that I find way more outrageous than this...

What am I suppose to do? Walk? Or ride a bike? Everything is spread out where I am at. There are no options except for having your own car.
 
Why should anyone be forced to pay into a private business by law? If the Supreme Court rules that mandated healthcare purchase is unconstitutional what does that say and do to mandated auto insurances?

wow, sorry, but that's an easy one.

No, Obamacare is more mandatory than auto insurance, or else auto insurance would've been challenged long ago, and/or similarly, Obamacare would not.

They are different in terms of how many people are forced to buy something, so no, Obamacare would not automatically make auto insurance mandatory.
 
What am I suppose to do? Walk? Or ride a bike? Everything is spread out where I am at. There are no options except for having your own car.
No one is forcing you to do anything... There is also public transportation in most places (you have to pay for that too. It's not an inherent right, nor is riding a bicycle you don't own, etc.), BTW, but the fact stands that if you're driving, then there is a very high likelihood that at some point you will end up in an accident with someone else, and if it happens to be your fault and you don't have any money to pay, then it gets stuck on me. A lawsuit isn't going to do anything but waste more of my money if you can't afford insurance in the first place...

So what I mean by it not being a right, is that just like you do not have the inherent right to drive a car if you can't afford or have permission to use one, you also can't own a car if you can't afford insurance to make sure that if you get into an accident (and I don't care how good of a driver you are, you cannot make any sort of guarantee you won't have an accident that's your fault), then you have means to pay. I mean, sure I technically have the right to ride around in a helicopter, but you have to be able to afford the necessities to operate it, and in the case of cars, it requires insurance that you will be held liable for the privilege of responsibly sharing the public roadways with your fellow citizens.

Now, as I said earlier, I'm conflicted about whether this is the most fair system (and an easy argument can be made that private and government have no business being in bed together), but the fact stands that uninsured drivers without an ability to pay only end up costing the vitcim. It's a consequence of cars being cheap and affordable, yet inherently destructive and numerous.
 
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Not to burst your bubble there, but if your argument is that it has to be mandated so people will carry it, how would the hypothetical where you are struck by an uninsured motorist ever come to pass? It is obvious that some folks aren't following the mandate at all.
So because some choose to break the law, that's an argument against the law? I'd say that's at very least equally poor logic, and doesn't speak at all to the merits of the law. There are law-brekaers for every law, just or unjust.
 
No one is forcing you to do anything... There is also public transportation in most places (you have to pay for that too. It's not an inherent right, nor is riding a bicycle you don't own, etc.), BTW, but the fact stands that if you're driving, then there is a very high likelihood that at some point you will end up in an accident with someone else, and if it happens to be your fault and you don't have any money to pay, then it gets stuck on me. A lawsuit isn't going to do anything but waste more of my money if you can't afford insurance in the first place...

So what I mean by it not being a right, is that just like you do not have the inherent right to drive a car if you can't afford or have permission to use one, you also can't own a car if you can't afford insurance to make sure that if you get into an accident (and I don't care how good of a driver you are, you cannot make any sort of guarantee you won't have an accident that's your fault), then you have means to pay. I mean, sure I technically have the right to ride around in a helicopter, but you have to be able to afford the necessities to operate it, and in the case of cars, it requires insurance that you will be held liable for the privilege of responsibly sharing the public roadways with your fellow citizens.

Now, as I said earlier, I'm conflicted about whether this is the most fair system (and an easy argument can be made that private and government have no business being in bed together), but the fact stands that uninsured drivers without an ability to pay only end up costing the vitcim. It's a consequence of cars being cheap and affordable, yet inherently destructive and numerous.

There is no public transportation in my area. If I can't drive, I'd either have to walk or ride a bike. Either way, just going to the store for food would take up at least an entire day. This doesn't even take into account I wouldn't be able to have a job to buy my food because there are no jobs in my area. So I don't buy that excuse at all that transportation is a privilege or a choice. Transportation is a necessity. You can't function in this economy without it.

Additionally, if you are worried about an uninsured person getting into an accident with you, then get insurance to cover that. The fact is, forcing people to buy auto insurance raises rates for everyone. If people could choose whether or not to get insurance, insurance companies would have to offer people reasonable rates to get people to be covered. There are many situations today where you cannot afford certain cars because the insurance is so fucking high. If the insurance is going to be completely unaffordable, you should have the right to just not buy the insurance at all and drive without it.

Put it this way. Insurance is supposed to be a cheaper alternative than getting into an accident and paying for it yourself. However, in most cases, its actually just cheaper to save up money yourself and pay for the damages yourself, than it is to pay for insurance. This is complete bullshit. And this fact alone shows that auto insurance is just a scam, just like most insurance.
 
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Put it this way. Insurance is supposed to be a cheaper alternative than getting into an accident and paying for it yourself. However, in most cases, its actually just cheaper to save up money yourself and pay for the damages yourself, than it is to pay for insurance. This is complete bullshit. And this fact alone shows that auto insurance is just a scam, just like most insurance.

You don't seem to understand how costly an accident lawsuit is, your talking 6 figures if there are injuries.

If you tap someone from behind, they scream oh my neck, they get trip to the hospital with x-rays and cat scan.
That alone would be like 8K out of your pocket... Its not like we are worried about the $350 bumper...
 
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Not to burst your bubble there, but if your argument is that it has to be mandated so people will carry it, how would the hypothetical where you are struck by an uninsured motorist ever come to pass? It is obvious that some folks aren't following the mandate at all.

does that fact some slip through mean all do? Do you think it has no effect on some people?
 
You don't seem to understand how costly an accident lawsuit is, your talking 6 figures if there are injuries.

If you tap someone from behind, they scream oh my neck, they get trip to the hospital with x-rays and cat scan.
That alone would be like 8K out of your pocket... Its not like we are worried about the $350 bumper...

Hospital costs are another issue. Those are completely bogus costs. I don't remember what my insurance costed, but I did a calculation a while ago that compared the total cost of car insurance to just saving my own money for another car in case I totaled my car. I believe it was actually cheaper to save my own money. This shouldn't be the case. Car insurance should in theory be much cheaper than insuring yourself. I know there's a possibility that someone may get seriously injured, however that is a low probability, especially when you are a good driver. It doesn't take an actuary to know that.
 
Hospital costs are another issue. Those are completely bogus costs. I don't remember what my insurance costed, but I did a calculation a while ago that compared the total cost of car insurance to just saving my own money for another car in case I totaled my car. I believe it was actually cheaper to save my own money. This shouldn't be the case. Car insurance should in theory be much cheaper than insuring yourself. I know there's a possibility that someone may get seriously injured, however that is a low probability, especially when you are a good driver. It doesn't take an actuary to know that.

the problem is, that your car isnt the only thing you lose in an accident, or else you'd have a valid point. If you are paying more to insure only your car vs saving to buy a new car, then I agree. I don't think you are required to insure your car, only for liabilities to the person you hit for injury..etc. Car insurance IS cheaper than insuring yourself, if you don't see that, you're with the wrong company.

Does being a good driver involve drinking?
 
No, and I believe they have already held a case on this in the past.

Here are two reasons:

1-It is a state issue of regulating intrastate activities, not a federal

2-It is not a condition of living, rather a condition of a certain activity provided by the government.

Not saying I agree with it necessarily, but I don't disagree with it completely either.

If I am ever able to run for state office, one of my main proposals will be to allow people to post bonds for a (newly established) state fund in lieu of insurance. This would help end the insurance monopoly and allow people to make a one time payment and pay much less in the long run.
 
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the problem is, that your car isnt the only thing you lose in an accident, or else you'd have a valid point. If you are paying more to insure only your car vs saving to buy a new car, then I agree. I don't think you are required to insure your car, only for liabilities to the person you hit for injury..etc. Car insurance IS cheaper than insuring yourself, if you don't see that, you're with the wrong company.

Does being a good driver involve drinking?

Why can't the other drivers just buy insurance to cover getting hit from an uninsured driver? Either way, thats a low probability. Even though those costs can be high, its a low probability. So insurance is not saving you money. The rates are not high because the costs of accidents are so high. They are high because they are screwing you.

If you require someone to buy any level of insurance, you are going to push up the rates because companies will not have to compete to get you to buy their insurance. By doing so, you will be taking more money out of the pockets of honest people and into the hands of corrupt insurance companies.

I don't drink at all. I follow the rules of the road. I go slightly above the speed limit sometimes, but thats it.
 
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Obamacare is federal, auto insurance is a states issue. That's one of the key differences here. The challenge to obamacare has to do with whether or not the federal government has the right to coerce people into buying a commodity (health insurance). Since auto insurance is done at a state level, it would be a separate issue
 
The rates are not high because the costs of accidents are so high. They are high because they are screwing you..

No, the cost of accidents ARE high.. You seem to only be thinking about your car.. not the people involved.
The only insurance you have to carry is liability, which it to cover damage to other people property, not your car.

I payed $2,500 to buy my used subaru SVX in 2010, I pay $2200/year in insurance.
Trust me, I understand what your saying about it cost more than the car is worth..

The fact of the matter is that I carry $300,000 in liability.. because I don't want to lose my house if I hit someone.

I would consider myself a good driver. I have been driving for 18 years now, I have not been in an at fault accident yet.
I was totaled once by a person who ran a stop sign full speed, relocating my passenger front tire into my engine bay..
The cops showed up on scene, tried to talk me into getting into an ambulance.
Cop told me that I could get bunch $ out the old lady that blew the stop sign..
I refused, I was not going to hit her with needless medical bills.
Her insurance bought me a new car.

P.S. I have a TON of speeding tickets. "Spirited Driving" is my hobby.
 
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Why should anyone be forced to pay into a private business by law? If the Supreme Court rules that mandated healthcare purchase is unconstitutional what does that say and do to mandated auto insurances?

Good lord... I thought we put the "car insurance" BS argument to bed last year.

Never before in history has the Federal Government mandated the purchase of a private product as a prerequisite to citizenship in the country. If upheld, the mandate will be used as case precedence to open the flood gates of endless federal mandates.

A STATE can mandate that you purchase car insurance... if you CHOOSE to buy a car AND drive it on PUBLIC ROADS. A State, by way of the 10th Amendment, has much more power to make laws, such as car insurance mandates, for its inhabitants, whereas the Federal Gov is [supposed to be] limited and defined.

If the mandate is upheld, it will be the new Wickard v. Filburn and used/abused ad infinitum.
 
So what I mean by it not being a right, is that just like you do not have the inherent right to drive a car if you can't afford or have permission to use one, you also can't own a car if you can't afford insurance to make sure that if you get into an accident (and I don't care how good of a driver you are, you cannot make any sort of guarantee you won't have an accident that's your fault), then you have means to pay.

Driving is a right, not a privilege. Just like running which can also cause hazards to those around us. Must we crawl in your world for fear of causing injury? Some of your language suggest you are speaking in terms of "positive rights" ("can't afford or have permission"). In that case, you need to log off and hit the books and brush up on what true liberty means. You are also confused about the state of law. I can own a billion cars and legally have zero insurance ("also can't own a car if you can't afford insurance to make sure that if you get into an accident"). The trouble begins if they are driven. Nor does the paltry sum of insurance legally required do what you think it does ("make sure that if you get into an accident (and I don't care how good of a driver you are, you cannot make any sort of guarantee you won't have an accident that's your fault), then you have means to pay.").

You are also supporting more laws for government to enforce. Now we have to show insurance papers when getting pulled over or at "safety" checks. Thanks for supporting the police state!

Mandatory insurance laws mean the carriers targeting poor or at-risk compete on offering the "minimum", not a value proposition with reasonable overheads. Also, money that ought to go towards covering risk ends up in the state coffers. How much of this money goes to the victims?:

The law, which takes effect in January, mandates that anyone with two or more previous convictions for driving uninsured who is again caught driving without coverage and causes bodily harm in an accident must pay a fine of $2,500.

Source: Insurance Research Council

Motorists who drive uninsured in the state already face fines of $500 to $1,000 for doing so and can have their driving privileges revoked for three months, after which they will have to pay a $100 reinstatement fee. The new law goes a step further and calls for a $1,000 fine for motorists who are convicted of a third or subsequent charge of operating a vehicle without insurance.

http://news.onlineautoinsurance.com/state/illinois-uninsured-penalties-car-insurance-95130

All that money from poor people is unavailable to pay for insurance or the mayhem - damages - they might cause.

You don't seem to understand how costly an accident lawsuit is, your talking 6 figures if there are injuries.

If you tap someone from behind, they scream oh my neck, they get trip to the hospital with x-rays and cat scan.
That alone would be like 8K out of your pocket... Its not like we are worried about the $350 bumper...

I understand that even if someone else has the state minimum, it is unlikely they will cover the type of costs you reference:

Illinois law (625 ILCS 5/7-203) requires BI limits of at least $20,000 per person per accident and $40,000 total per accident.
Property Damage (PD) – Pays for damage to another person’s car or property such as fences, buildings, utility poles, signs, and trees. Illinois law (625 ILCS 5/7-203) requires PD liability limits of at least $15,000 per accident.

http://insurance.illinois.gov/autoinsurance/shopping_auto_ins.asp

Regardless, the reason driving is a right is to increase the burden of having that right removed from an individual. A privilege implies we must beg to use the roads we provide. A right implies that TPTB must present a case in open court that we have the ability to challenge.

The motivation to eliminate mandatory insurance laws is not so that we can drive without insurance. Rather, it is to require the insurance companies to offer a competitive value proposition. Instead of money going to commercials, lobbyists, overhead, undue profit, etc., the money can be available when needed. Insurance is a losing bet and those who can't afford insurance are most likely to lose that bet. Their coverage is lower, the companies that offer that coverage are stingier (good luck getting payouts!), they will deny and deny and deny coverage likely until you threaten to sue. Wealthier people can have their non-fly-by-night insurance company handle this or contact lawyers already on retainer.

From a purely egalitarian standpoint, rich people that want to drive around museum pieces or overpriced luxury goods ought to bare more risk for electing to bring non-utilitarian show pieces into a dangerous environment. I wouldn't necessarily support "no fault" insurance but possibly limits on damage when at fault (e.g., $1000 for a bumper, not $5,000).


NMA Position On Auto Insurance Laws

We oppose mandatory automobile insurance for seven reasons.

1 It increases the cost of auto insurance.
2 It increases the regulation of auto insurance.
3 It adds more punitive sanctions to be applied against motorists, even if they have auto insurance.
4 It reduces the number of companies offering coverage in a given state.
5 It does not necessarily increase the number of insured vehicles.
6 It does not guarantee coverage of catastrophic losses.
7 There are better ways to protect responsible motorists from serious losses attributable to uninsured motorists.

http://www.motorists.org/insurance/

If the socialist fantasy pushed by "driving is not right" types were true, then insurance costs ought to decrease as freeriders are eliminated. Big surprise, but that doesn't happen. Insurance and fines to the state BOTH increase.
 
No, the cost of accidents ARE high.. You seem to only be thinking about your car.. not the people involved.
The only insurance you have to carry is liability, which it to cover damage to other people property, not your car.

I payed $2,500 to buy my used subaru SVX in 2010, I pay $2200/year in insurance.
Trust me, I understand what your saying about it cost more than the car is worth..

The fact of the matter is that I carry $300,000 in liability.. because I don't want to lose my house if I hit someone.

I would consider myself a good driver. I have been driving for 18 years now, I have not been in an at fault accident yet.
I was totaled once by a person who ran a stop sign full speed, relocating my passenger front tire into my engine bay..
The cops showed up on scene, tried to talk me into getting into an ambulance.
Cop told me that I could get bunch $ out the old lady that blew the stop sign..
I refused, I was not going to hit her with needless medical bills.
Her insurance bought me a new car.

P.S. I have a TON of speeding tickets. "Spirited Driving" is my hobby.

The type of accidents that cause major medical bills is a low probability. Thats why the real costs are low. As you stated, you are basically paying for a new car by covering this type of incident. I think this is too high, especially considering you have never caused an accident.

Insurance should be saving you money, not costing you money.
 
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