If the income tax was abolished, would the economy collapse?

You have to get the spending down first. If you don't and get rid of the income tax you have massive debts- even compared to what we have now. Defaulting on that debt does not help you if you continue to pile up the debt by spending more than you take in.

You can exchange Federal Reserve Notes for gold- just not with the government. Should they be in the business of selling gold or any other commodity? Should they tell you what the price of gold will be (that is what happens with a gold backed currency)? You can also exchange you Federal Reserve Notes for banana or a bottle or water or millions of other things. The dollar is backed by both faith in the government and confidence in the economy and all the goods it produces.
 
Zippyjuan said:
You have to get the spending down first. If you don't and get rid of the income tax you have massive debts- even compared to what we have now. Defaulting on that debt does not help you if you continue to pile up the debt by spending more than you take in.
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That doesnt sound that bad. Just at the end of Jackson presidency some states got in trouble and could not pay their debt. The biggest creditors were european banks, and their countries were pressing the USA in their favor. So those states goverments wanted the Federal goverment to pay the debt for them, wich was unconstitutional. But the big surprise, specially for the european goverments that were used to their servile population, was that even the people of the states in trouble did not wanted the Federal goverment to step in and save the broke states. The majority of the people argue that if the Feds saved the states goverments they would not learn the lesson and they would be quickly at it again. Again, this surprised the hell out of the europeans, guess they were not used to the reaction of free people. And this could only be posible because the americans then were used to be self-reliant, and not depen on the goverment, so they could control it.

At the end the Federal goverment did not save the states in problems and they negotiated a way out with the creditors, that had to condone part of the debt. And that is what would happen now if the inconme tax was abolished. The civil society would have enough money to live on their own, and the goverment would have to negoitate new terms with the creditors, and that would force politicians to be responsable.

Once politicians loose the hability to take the fruit of your labor, there is little they can do.
 
hugolp said:
That doesnt sound that bad. Just at the end of Jackson presidency some states got in trouble and could not pay their debt. The biggest creditors were european banks, and their countries were pressing the USA in their favor. So those states goverments wanted the Federal goverment to pay the debt for them, wich was unconstitutional. But the big surprise, specially for the european goverments that were used to their servile population, was that even the people of the states in trouble did not wanted the Federal goverment to step in and save the broke states. The majority of the people argue that if the Feds saved the states goverments they would not learn the lesson and they would be quickly at it again. Again, this surprised the hell out of the europeans, guess they were not used to the reaction of free people. And this could only be posible because the americans then were used to be self-reliant, and not depen on the goverment, so they could control it.

At the end the Federal goverment did not save the states in problems and they negotiated a way out with the creditors, that had to condone part of the debt. And that is what would happen now if the inconme tax was abolished. The civil society would have enough money to live on their own, and the goverment would have to negoitate new terms with the creditors, and that would force politicians to be responsable.

Once politicians loose the hability to take the fruit of your labor, there is little they can do.
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Amen. We don't need the Government. Repudiate the debt, end taxation, and regulation and liquidate the failed institutions and institute 100% Reserve with Sound Currency and you will see growth rivalling and moreso surpassing that of the 19th Century in America.
 
FY2010 YEAR-TO-DATE US Treasury

ALL Receipts: 487,776,000,000.00
ALL Expenditures: 876,284,000,000

Deficit: $388,507,000,000

Projected Deficit for FY2010: $1.6 TRILLION



Income Tax Receipts are DOWN 25% comparable 3 month span of FY2009


Instead of another STIMULUS which they're talking about of $500-700 Billion... it would be much more effective AND efficient to just eliminate the personal income taxes on everyone.

Unfortunately, the government will NEVER release it's stranglehold and monitoring of everyone's earnings... that's their only gravy train and control of the masses.

http://www.fms.treas.gov/mts/mts1209.pdf

I suggest you spend time analyzing the 32 pages if the latest US Treasury release on the numbers.
 
The extra revenue will come from the health care tax we will have to pay. That is a lot of money and it could delay the crisis a little longer.
 
The economy wouldn't collapse, unless government spending wasn't cut at the same time. If we just slashed government spending, a lot of people would die, to be honest. There are old people that literally depend on social security/medicare to live. Unfortunately, this culture of dependency has been developed as a result of these entitlement programs, which is exactly what the government wanted.

Eventually, we'll have no choice but to cut government programs. The rest of the world will stop buying treasuries and we'll either perform massive cuts or have hyperinflation. There will be no other options at that point.
 
MN Patriot said:
Yes, that may be necessary, but once again, we need to anticipate how the financial sector, and the political Establishment will respond to ending the income tax and repudiating the debt. They will claim the sky will fall, the earth will stop spinning, etc.

We need good arguments and good strategy to deal with their opposition.
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Kind of a late response, but as they say....

The financial sector, the very innermost portions of it where the real power rests, will attempt to punish us. They will do a good job, too. The question is whether it will be enough. Are Americans such pansies now that the withdrawal of conveniences will bring them to their knees. Of course, if the answer is "no", the financiers will ratchet up the punitive action and the question then will shift to whether Americans are willing and able to eat bitter for the sake of the ideal of freedom. If the answer turns out to be "yes", those in power will certainly try to crank it up even further.... but with what? If they torpedo the economy beyond a certain point, they may seriously imperil their positions of power, which are after all built in some measure upon the foundations of the current economic order. Do they have at hand an alternative? My suspicion is that they do - after all, if an idiot such as myself is able to understand these basics ins and outs of the situation, no doubt they have planned for all these contingencies. It is possible that they are so poisoned with hubris that they have not given all this due consideration, but I would not bet the farm on that.

OTOH, wrecking the economy in-toto could be the goal if they can defend their claims to the real assets standing as collateral for all financing they have supposedly dished out to the various parties. Houses, buildings, corporate assets, etc. Who gives a damn about cash when you own real stuff and thereby have everyone by the balls? It would seem to me that the real trick here is to wreck the economy to the extent that the basic order remains but people are "forced" to rely on government for their ability to get from one day to the next. That is the likely goal, IMO. But what if it goes too far? Can they control the downward plunge that finely? Only time will tell... for us, anyway.
 
LDA said:
The economy wouldn't collapse, unless government spending wasn't cut at the same time. If we just slashed government spending, a lot of people would die, to be honest. There are old people that literally depend on social security/medicare to live. Unfortunately, this culture of dependency has been developed as a result of these entitlement programs, which is exactly what the government wanted.

Eventually, we'll have no choice but to cut government programs. The rest of the world will stop buying treasuries and we'll either perform massive cuts or have hyperinflation. There will be no other options at that point.
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I think that is very likely. Hyper-inflation allows the US GOVT to paper over it's otherwise impossible to pay debt.
 
There are several states (Alaska, Florida, Nevada, South Dakota, Texas, Washington, and Wyoming) with no state income tax... they are doing better than those with one.
 
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