If not here (USA), then where?

[mcmelon]

If we're concerned about the oil crisis, food crisis, tanking dollar, soaring inflation, nanny state / socialist leaning government, highest corporate tax rate, eroding personal liberties.... then WHERE is better?

Let's just say that you have twin daughters (8 months) and while you support the revolution, you want to consider a plan B in the event the USA decides it wants to continue its path of slow (or accelerating) destruction.

So, if the USA is not the place to be... then WHERE?

My personal priority list:

1: Small, limited, responsible government... a republic ideally, like the US started and before Wilson / FDR / etc. I'd need to setup a business there, ideally limited taxes, flexibilty, limited regulation. Some barrier to entry is acceptable. Sound currency would be nice... so many are pegged to the dollar... yikes!

2: Self sufficient nation if possible. What good is it to leave if you depend on other nations for basic necessities like food and energy. This basically removes all islands. Example: Brazil is energy and food independent. But I do not qualify to immigrate there, I'm too young to retire there and I'm not brazilian or marrying one.

3: Education and Opportunity. I've got twin infants. If I were to leave, they'd need an at least VERY equal or greater education system than they'd have in the USA, posturing them for greater opportunity in life.

4: Safety. Both the ability to protect our own property (legally) as well as a general safe (low crime / violence) community and nation. One in which personal rights are respected by law enforcement would be great.

5: Transportation: It'd be nice to be somewhere with the ability to get around without dependence on cars such as in the US and Canada. Oil will escalate in all nations, imo, crashing them equally unless there is a different transportation layout (like everything in 1 place) or different system (train / bus / etc) in that 'better' nation.

6: Ability to return to the USA in a single day of travel (and reasonable expense) would be nice. We do have family here, and would hope to have visitors wherever we moved. We are basically planning for air travel to increase 200-300% in the short to mid term due to fuel costs though, so we might be out of luck on this one.

7. a community that speaks english. not 100%, but maybe 50% would be nice. schools taught in english would be nice, otherwise I'll be no help on homework

SO, does such a place even exist?

Brazil was on my radar before I figured I could only stay 180 days and then would have to leave for 180 days... 15 more years before I could be there on a permanent basis.

Considering Belize (english speaking) but their currency is pegged to the dollar, just like Panama. oops. Mexico is quite possible... i seem to like the geography aspects of the yucatan (chetumal, bacalar) and quinta roo. I don't know much about the safety of mexico, favored areas, or education/opportunity as compared to other options.

The above 3 are my current favorites at this time, despite their negatives. afterall, I won't be holding much cash, I'll be a PM holder just about wherever I go.

Costa Rica... not so interested in the mountains, and the pacific frontage may not be as nice, but everything else I've 'heard' about it sounds neat.

I do prefer latin america from a cultural perspective, but I'm open the world. I'm not hispanic one bit, but I just like their values at least as I learned in school (family focus, principled, laid back but willing to work hard).

So, does a place better than the US even exist?
If the USA is not on the right track, then WHERE do you go?

 

[JRegs85]

I was looking at different countries, thinking along the same lines.

I had targeted Canada or Switzerland. Based on what you said, probably Canada. Not perfect, obviously, but the closest you can get to your outlines.

 

[mcmelon]

thx for the feedback! while climate is not a must, a cold climate certainly is a negative. Canada is in mind though, but I'm concerned about how spread out it is, and how efficient it may be when transportation costs are up another 700% in 7 years like the last 7 have gone.

 

[ARealConservative]

based on how much money we spend on military, I wouldn't want to be anywhere but here when TSHTF.

You think our elected leaders are going to accept responsibility and watch everything collapse around them?

 

[mcmelon]

if our military was HERE on US shores, I'd feel some comfort. But I think I'd rather be in a 'mind our own bizness' nation that doesn't have so many entanglements if TSHTF really came about.

Something tells me there'd be people on the beach in south america on the same day that the US was attempting to shoot down missles and such. Now they might be listening to the radio, but I do not see that they'd be entangled in the mess directly. Or, maybe I'm just naive, as 1 yr ago I'd have never thought I'd be seriously considering a plan B move out of the US.

 

[shaunish]

iceland - self sufficient, low population, no crime, high standard of living, high literacy rate.

new zealand - for same reasons as above.

downsides: not the most democratic of nations, but just as good or better than canada. also it is hard to get citizenship.

 

[Ozwest]

iceland - self sufficient, low population, no crime, high standard of living, high literacy rate.

new zealand - for same reasons as above.

downsides: not the most democratic of nations, but just as good or better than canada. also it is hard to get citizenship.

New Zealand is a good choice.

Consider Australia.

I live in West Australia.

I lived in the States for 23 years.

And..

I love this country.

It's Wild.

 

[freelance]

See my sigline.

 

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

I will walk 200 miles to the sea to make salt

If we're concerned about the oil crisis, food crisis, tanking dollar, soaring inflation, nanny state / socialist leaning government, highest corporate tax rate, eroding personal liberties.... then WHERE is better?

Let's just say that you have twin daughters (8 months) and while you support the revolution, you want to consider a plan B in the event the USA decides it wants to continue its path of slow (or accelerating) destruction.

So, if the USA is not the place to be... then WHERE?

My personal priority list:

1: Small, limited, responsible government... a republic ideally, like the US started and before Wilson / FDR / etc. I'd need to setup a business there, ideally limited taxes, flexibilty, limited regulation. Some barrier to entry is acceptable. Sound currency would be nice... so many are pegged to the dollar... yikes!

2: Self sufficient nation if possible. What good is it to leave if you depend on other nations for basic necessities like food and energy. This basically removes all islands. Example: Brazil is energy and food independent. But I do not qualify to immigrate there, I'm too young to retire there and I'm not brazilian or marrying one.

3: Education and Opportunity. I've got twin infants. If I were to leave, they'd need an at least VERY equal or greater education system than they'd have in the USA, posturing them for greater opportunity in life.

4: Safety. Both the ability to protect our own property (legally) as well as a general safe (low crime / violence) community and nation. One in which personal rights are respected by law enforcement would be great.

5: Transportation: It'd be nice to be somewhere with the ability to get around without dependence on cars such as in the US and Canada. Oil will escalate in all nations, imo, crashing them equally unless there is a different transportation layout (like everything in 1 place) or different system (train / bus / etc) in that 'better' nation.

6: Ability to return to the USA in a single day of travel (and reasonable expense) would be nice. We do have family here, and would hope to have visitors wherever we moved. We are basically planning for air travel to increase 200-300% in the short to mid term due to fuel costs though, so we might be out of luck on this one.

7. a community that speaks english. not 100%, but maybe 50% would be nice. schools taught in english would be nice, otherwise I'll be no help on homework

SO, does such a place even exist?

Brazil was on my radar before I figured I could only stay 180 days and then would have to leave for 180 days... 15 more years before I could be there on a permanent basis.

Considering Belize (english speaking) but their currency is pegged to the dollar, just like Panama. oops. Mexico is quite possible... i seem to like the geography aspects of the yucatan (chetumal, bacalar) and quinta roo. I don't know much about the safety of mexico, favored areas, or education/opportunity as compared to other options.

The above 3 are my current favorites at this time, despite their negatives. afterall, I won't be holding much cash, I'll be a PM holder just about wherever I go.

Costa Rica... not so interested in the mountains, and the pacific frontage may not be as nice, but everything else I've 'heard' about it sounds neat.

I do prefer latin america from a cultural perspective, but I'm open the world. I'm not hispanic one bit, but I just like their values at least as I learned in school (family focus, principled, laid back but willing to work hard).

So, does a place better than the US even exist?
If the USA is not on the right track, then WHERE do you go?

I too have pondered seriously this question while nibbling on dry toast.

Considering that many there speak English, I've decided to fly to India after Washington DC takes over the United States so that I can emulate Gandhi as my alter ego. There I will squat in the street like a begger in just my underwear, also like Gandhi, whereupon I will purchase a menial goat to feed daily, again like Gandhi.

I was considering buying me a small drum to thump upon while wandering about the desolate streets singing out the name of "Gandhi!" but this led me to question deeply whether such an act would be considered commercialism. I mean, shouldn't homelessness be considered the truest form of artistic expression because it strips the soul down to its essence of rotten teeth?

Indeed, there are negative aspects about India which will offend my western heritage, like placing ones dead parents out in front as heavy garbage for instance, but I can adapt. As India's newest Untouchable resident, opportunity will abound for me as long as billions of Hindu toilets need cleaning. The sky will be the limit as long as the the plentiful droppings from fruit bats fall to be gathered and burned as my small fire.

Eventually my fire will grow large enough for two after which I will select me a good Indian wife to dot upon the forehead. That dot is to hush the naughty wife. "Can't you see the dot, naughty one? Hush! A dotted forehead should never speak, silly wife!"

 

[Conza88]

My personal priority list:

1: Small, limited, responsible government... a republic ideally, like the US started and before Wilson / FDR / etc. I'd need to setup a business there, ideally limited taxes, flexibilty, limited regulation. Some barrier to entry is acceptable. Sound currency would be nice... so many are pegged to the dollar... yikes!

2: Self sufficient nation if possible. What good is it to leave if you depend on other nations for basic necessities like food and energy. This basically removes all islands. Example: Brazil is energy and food independent. But I do not qualify to immigrate there, I'm too young to retire there and I'm not brazilian or marrying one.

3: Education and Opportunity. I've got twin infants. If I were to leave, they'd need an at least VERY equal or greater education system than they'd have in the USA, posturing them for greater opportunity in life.

4: Safety. Both the ability to protect our own property (legally) as well as a general safe (low crime / violence) community and nation. One in which personal rights are respected by law enforcement would be great.

5: Transportation: It'd be nice to be somewhere with the ability to get around without dependence on cars such as in the US and Canada. Oil will escalate in all nations, imo, crashing them equally unless there is a different transportation layout (like everything in 1 place) or different system (train / bus / etc) in that 'better' nation.

6: Ability to return to the USA in a single day of travel (and reasonable expense) would be nice. We do have family here, and would hope to have visitors wherever we moved. We are basically planning for air travel to increase 200-300% in the short to mid term due to fuel costs though, so we might be out of luck on this one.

7. a community that speaks english. not 100%, but maybe 50% would be nice. schools taught in english would be nice, otherwise I'll be no help on homework

Alright, well I'll compare Australia to your list.

1. Small - compared to the United States... but in terms of per person, I think we're the most governed people in the world. Constitutional (not as good as the US) Democracy. We want to become a republic though.. I would suggest we already do: but the msm is reporting, we're waiting till the Queen dies.
The government isn't limited.. and it's growing - the nanny state here we come.

Barriers of entry are fairly small I think? But you have to register a business name etc, few loops to jump through. Dollar is floated... not pegged to the US..

2. We could be... food wise & energy. Don't think so though.

3. Education and Opportunity. Private Schools abound... state run schools are ok. Normal slight state lean to all education facilities.. same as anywhere really. Insanely better than the US.

4. Low Crime... Except our guns were stolen in 1996... after the only massacre in our history really.. (individual lone gunman etc..) Imo, it was an op. Anyway, police are ok... except in QLD they're all about to get tasers... cus the unions are demanding it.. *sigh*

5. Fairly good. Trains. Buses. Bike Paths. Depends where you are really. Traffic jams are becoming a problem in Brisbane though. Dunno about Sydney etc.

6. Well... 22 hr flight ok? Expensive though, so its fail.

7. We speak Australian... kind of like English, except with more humour, nicknames, slang & curse words..

I've painted a rather negative picture.. it's just that it, like most of the world is losing ground to tyranny.. not gaining.

 

[Bossobass]

Panama.

It's the only country that hasn't signed the Tax Information Exchange Agreement. Even the Swiss accounts are no longer secret.

It has the Panama Canal. When the canal was in US control, 60,000 Americans lived in or near Panama City, which caused it to become very Americanized. English is widely spoken in that part of Panama. Tens of Thousands of Americans live there. Low cost of living. Weather that's conducive to self support through gardening, canning, solar and wind power. Tax advantages. 20 year exoneration of property taxes on a new home. US dollar is the official currency. Life expectancy is the same as the US. The best banking and communications services in Latin America. 130+ banks offer a high degree of secrecy, good returns on a CD and no tax on the interest income. Like it or not, CAFTA offers business opportunities from Panama to everywhere in Central America and the NAU

There's more. Look it up.